A great ep, you guys will love it, the Willow/Anya bickering is FUNNY, well I have to go...watch it again

However, everything is a process. For a long time Joss didn't want to "label the relationship." Now he has. Perhaps the kiss is just a matter of him getting comfortable with the idea. Or perhaps he's just waiting for the appropriate way to do it. Or both.

quote:

---

- Tara says that she is allergic to shrimp

---

WHAT?S IT CALLED?

?Triangle.?
WHO?S RESPONSIBLE?

Jane Esperson, who authored what is probably the funniest ?Buffy? this season, the Xander-duplicating yarn ?The Replacement.?
WHAT DOES TV GUIDE SAY?

?Buffy?s post-Riley emotional turmoil is interrupted by a malevolent troll accidentally set loose on Sunnydale by Anya and Willow.?
ANY GOOD?

Yes. It?s a very funny one, with loads of laugh-provoking Willow and Anya dialogue. Also amusing is the aforementioned ?troll? (portrayed by Abraham Benrubi -- you?ll remember him as Jerry the hulking admissions clerk on ?ER?), who comes off as an amusingly ill-mannered monster Viking. (He carries a Thor-evoking giant hammer, but his horns are in his head instead of his helmet.) He?s the kind of oafish barbarian who?ll fling an enormous dumpster across the street and declare, ?Ha ha ha ha ha ha! Puny receptacle!!? Benrubi does a superior job.
WHY MIGHT THIS EPISODE BE QUASI-HISTORIC?

I believe tonight marks the first time since the premiere of ?Angel? that a new ?Buffy? was not immediately followed by a new ?Angel.?
THE BIG NEWS?

Rupert Giles spends most of the episode on a three-day trip visiting the libraries of the Watchers Council, looking for clues about Glory, Dawn, and so on. If memory serves, this is the first time Giles has visited the Council since they booted him out in season three.
IS RILEY FINN REALLY GONE?

Really most completely gone. And, as anticipated, Marc Blucas is absent from the opening titles.
DOES AMBER BENSON GET THE MARC BLUCAS SPOT IN THE TITLES?

Sadly, she does not. Tara?s alter-ego remains confined to the realm of semi-regular.
IS BUFFY?S MOM REALLY ALL BETTER?

Seemingly. Joyce Summers appears fully healthy and normal again, and is even spotted wearing something besides a bathrobe.
DOES DAWN MANIFEST ANY SUPERPOWERS?

No.
IS XANDER MADE A JUNIOR WATCHER?

No.
ANY SIGN OF GLORY, BEN OR DREG?

Nope. The off-screen Glory, however, still has everybody pretty jumpy.
ANYTHING NEW ON SPIKE?

He seems dazed and frustrated by the fact that, despite Riley?s sudden departure, Buffy still hates him. When the troll shows up at the Bronze, Spike gets off a funny line involving a menu item.
HOW?S IT END? (MAJOR SPOILER HERE)

Dawn overhears Buffy, Giles and Joyce discussing Dawn?s otherworldly origins. Executive Producer Joss Whedon.
HERC, DIDN?T YOU SAY LAST TIME THAT YOU HAD THEORIES ON WHERE BUFFY IS HEADED THIS SEASON?

I did, but claim no special knowledge beyond having seen 5.10. Here?s what I jotted down (but did not post for fear of over-spoiling) at the conclusion of 5.10. I offer this only to quell the enormous number of e-mails requesting it. My admittedly unimpressive theories:

Buffy will fall for Ben the Evil Intern.

Ben will use Buffy in his quest to exploit Dawn.

Giles will reunite with the Watcher's Council.

Xander will become a junior watcher.

The Council will betray Buffy.

Riley will unexpectedly return in the finale and team with Spike to save Buffy from Ben.

Riley will die in the attempt.

Herc will be lucky if 50 percent of this proves true.
NEXT ON ?BUFFY?:

More reruns. Then the slayer turns 20!
WHAT ELSE?

According to WB Entertainment president Susanne Daniels at the Television Critics Assn. winter press tour (as reported in Monday?s Hollywood Reporter): ?There isn't a drama on our current schedule that we want to cancel.? As a result, Daniels said, the premiere of the one-hour drama ?Dead Last? has been bumped to next autumn.
HERC?S RATING FOR ?BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER? 5.11?

***1/2
The Hercules T. Strong Rating System:

**** better than most motion pictures

*** actually worth your valuable time

** as horrible as most stuff on TV

* makes you quietly pray for bulletins

this is my "analysis with a heavy focus on tara":

my very favorite line, even eclipsing "hello, gay now!", was when buffy and tara enter the decimated and empty magic shop, and tara runs up to buffy saying "buffy, something's been here and willow's gone!" with the most worried look on her face. so cute! you can just *see* on her face how much she loves willow and how concerned she is.

willow's powers in this ep are truly awesome, as well. when she made the cash register disappear and floated all of those things in the magic shop? wow! i must say, though, i'm a bit worried. willow is starting to get bery nonchalant (sp?) with the way she throws around spells. the troll was bad enough - if she doesn't watch it, she could do something seriously bad.

speaking of, why aren't we seeing her and tara doing spells together anymore? come to think of it, why aren't we seeing tara doing magic at *all* this season? have we seen it even once, other than the blind cadria spell during "family"?

and this leads me into my biggest problem with this ep: tara was lame! throughout the whole final scene in the magic shop, every single other scoobie does something to try and fight the troll - xander tries valiently to attack him, buffy works her slayer mojo, anya bravely tries to distract him and willow is casting spells as fast as she can. what is tara doing? cowering in the corner, as far as i can tell. she doesn't try to help willow (or even run over to her to see if she's okay), she doesn't try to cast a spell of her own, she doesn't even *say* anything.

now i'm sorry, the tara that cast a smoke spell when she was chased by a demon last season, the tara that was worried sick about her willow a few scenes before, that tara would *not* stand idly by while a troll threatened her friends and her girlfriend! jane, jane, what sort of writing is that? i sincerely hope that the shooting script will reveal that tara did try to do something, but it had to be cut because of time.

this tara was also much more shy than we've seen her in a while. maybe she's only not shy around willow, because we saw a much more confident, articulate tara during the rooftop scene in the last taraful ep. but i don't mind her shyness, really. especially in the scene where she buffy hug, her shyness is adorable.

and i'm so glad that they let anya talk about shellfish again, and that we got to find out tara's allergic to shrimp. that was a cute addition.

also, i was very happy to see the buffy/tara bonding. i thought it was great during the scene in the bronze when buffy sent xander off to look for the troll and willow and anya to the magic shop, but kept tara with her. i think she liked having tara as a sidekick.

what else? poor spike...he's really in for it now...head over heels...

and i loved xander's line at the beginning "i hardly remember that riley's gone!". sorry riley fans, but i totally agree.

buffy was oddly melodramatic tonight, no? i know that she was being all cheesy on purpose, but what was up with that? at least we finally get to see her in something that's not ultra-serious slayer mode.

oh, back to tara for a sec (lol): way to go tara, taking xander's cue to leave the magic shop and not get drawn into willow and anya's fight! she's very perceptive about interpersonal things. i hope we get to see more of that from her.

hello gay now was great. i also loved when anya said to xander "and willow's not going to steal you, because she's gay!", and willow just sort of shrugged at him. hee hee...i have been waiting for a moment like this on tv for a long time. willow has a sexuality! there must be a lot of people freaking out right now.

what do i want to see most in future eps? (other than that damn kiss) let's see willow and tara do some kick ass magic together! willow is clearly really powerful now, and i know tara has more for us to see. they need to do something that really shakes things up.

okay, i'm sure there are tons of things i've forgotten to say, but i'll let someone else have a turn now.

what a great ep! much woo, and even more hoo!

edited to add one more gripe: the scene in the beginning where buffy and dawn talk on and on about riley was almost too painfully melodramatic to watch. could they have said the same things over again one more time? the scooby scene in the magic shop after that was like a breath of fresh air.

Seriously, about 45 minutes into this ep I was almost convinced it was a stinker, but by the end I realized that it was just the middle part with the Troll that was bad. There were some scenes that looked like the director was having trouble getting the appropriate performances out of the actors, and their interactions were kind of goofy. What really made the ep come through all right for me were the great scenes at the beginning and the end with Buffy and Tara and Buffy and Giles. There was some incredibly sweet stuff there.

I thought Buffy's scenes of crying about X/A were hilarious. They were going for a very girlish look for her with the lack of heavy colors in her eye shadow and the ponytails and the loose-fitting clothes. This look worked for me with this post-Riley story. I thought that was very clever.

Editing to respond to April:
I was thinking the SAME THING about that stupid conversation between Buffy and Dawn about Riley. When I saw all the Willow, Anya, Tara interaction in the beginning I got all excited, then they had the Dawn/Buffy scene and I was so bored. And then I said that mantra that I've been saying most of this season "Spring, it's not the Willow and Tara show, it's the Buffy show. It's all about Buffy." So when that was over and we moved on, I was so f***ing relieved!! Halle-freakin-lujah! I was like getting a wish granted.

How wonderful it was to see screen pairings that lately have been seldom tried: Buffy/Tara, Willow/Anya & Xander/Spike. Spring, you're right! The eps was "light as air."

One complaint tho' I was a tad upset on how Buffy went on and on and on about Xander and Anya's love and zip, nothing, nada about Willow and Tara's. I know the troll specifically mentioned X/A's love but after all that happened, Willow was in as much danger as Anya........no acknowledement whatsoever. And you're right, April, no W/T hugs/kisses.

I guess I should just be happy with the "Hello, GAY now" line, which was sooooo incredibly cute.

So looking forward to the next Riley-less eps,
kate

edited for spelling

I have to agree with April, I did find it strange that Tara didn't help Willow while she was trying to cast the spell during the final scene in the magic shop. In fact it was strange that Buffy sent Willow and Anya to the Magic Shop to prepare the spell instead of Willow and Tara. The only reason I can think of is that it allowed for the episode to focus more on what was happening between Willow and Anya.

Finally I have to say I thought both Willow and Tara looked great to-night. I like the new look Willow.

Tara running to Buffy telling her that something was there and that Willow’s gone (loved that scene, Tara was so worried) but then when Buffy and her arrive at the Bronze, Tara looks at Willow and that’s it, no hug, no nothing, they could have had them hug at least

And Tara not helping Willow with a spell to get rid of the troll…I guess the writers wanted to concentrate on W/A.

As for Tara not helping at the end, when she walks in, Willow yells out “Stay back Tara”…so that’s why she didn’t help

And finally at the end, all the hugs and stuff from X/A and NOTHING from W/T and Buffy could have at least looked at them when she was talking about love but we did get the “Hello, Gay now!” line

good points:

1. "HELLO, GAY NOW!"of course everybody'll love this quote fr Willow after watching it. the word "gay" has been said. alleluia! i can't recall them ever saying "gay" b4 esp. in S4, and they basically say "doing the wicca thing" or "the whole wicca thing" or "witch stuff" instead of saying 'gay' out loud. so Willow admitted it finally! and Anya too! yay! extra points for this!

2. loved Buffy and Tara talking abt normal stuff like school AND the Buffster letting it all out over Tara's shoulders re: Riley... and Tara seemed supportive and quite didn't know what to do with Buffy crying all over her... cute.

3. the Anya and Willow squabble. i know it has been going on since a few eps back that Anya and Willow don't really get along and this ep has proven it and squandered on the topic, in a good way of course.

4. Xander's decision to choose neither Anya nor Willow when the troll was asking him to. he obviously loves both and would suffer intently rather than give up on them. very heroic indeed! you go Xander! his hand must've hurt...ouch...!

5. Spike doing the rt thing by helping the wounded expecting Buffy would be touched but instead telling him just the opposite. ouch! now that's one confused Spike for ya! heh.heh.

6. Dawn and Buffy talking abt the hurt and pain. reminds me of me and my sis. sisters do talk like that and it was captured in such a very well-detailed and familiar manner. loved it. plus Dawn heard what they were talking abt in the end scene. altho' she hasn't heard much, she knows she is somehow involved. what will be her reaction? will she be aloof? will she confront Buffy? will she write her thoughts again in her journal? or tell the others (maybe Tara?) we'll see what happens.

7. Tara worried that Willow's missing. and Buffy assuring her "we'll find her..." or something of that sort. yeah!

8. Tara's "cool" hair. love it more than she was a blondie.

ok, that's all i can remember rt now. now to the bad points:

1. Willow's new 'do. don't like. sorry. like the straight hair better.

2. ok, we all know Tara is NOT into "violence" but she could have helped Willow cast the reverse spell for the troll instead of just watching the whole rumble or even a "can i help with the spells?" would have sufficed.

3. the troll. aren't trolls supposed to small? coz i have these british comic mags fr way back and there are trolls there but they are tiny. course, we can't have tiny trolls running around coz Buffy won't be fighting 'em, she'll just squash 'em and what's the story in that? oh well. atleast the face under the mask looked familiar... paging ER! who let the dog out? he seemed just one of the 'we-can-beat-u-anytime' monsters of the wk. duh?

4. u can definitely tell it was SMG’s stunt double in one of the fight scenes.

quote:

---

Originally posted by gogirrrr:
One complaint tho' I was a tad upset on how Buffy went on and on and on about Zander and Anya's love and zip, nothing, nada about Willow and Tara's.

---

When I read the script, I thought Buffy's crying jag at the end was supposed to include both couples, but it didn't come across that way in the actual episode. Here's what it said:

BUFFY
There, see how nice things worked
out? And look at you guys...
(looking at Xander and Anya)
So good and alive and together.

She starts to cry.

BUFFY
(looking at Willow and Tara)
So together... and good... and alive...

Everyone looks uncomfortable as Buffy cries harder.

BUFFY
I'm just so... happy for you!

************************

I'll be posting the complete script in the morning.

quote:

---

Originally posted by gogirrrr:
Hmmmm...curious....I wonder why the change not to include W/T in Buffy's couple/love gushing

---

I think the director just didn't get that point across (I think it was a new guy). They did flash to Tara and Willow, but it didn't feel like Buffy was referring to them as well. So I'd chalk it up to bad direction for that scene.

But maybe a couple thoughts of my own...
Yeah I wasn't too nuts about Willow's hair either. But I LOVED that choker. Willowneck is SUCH good neck. Imagine the tip of your tongue playing along its texture... never wanted to be a choker before.

My favorite line: "Puny receptacles!" Of course it could be taken any number of ways but it was the funniest thing I've ever heard a troll utter. And by the way I loved whatsisname Benrobi as the troll. He hadda be one of the best villains ever. Cracked me up with his talk of ale and mead and such.

And last I gotta agree that when Tara came running out of the back room all concerned for willow I got all goosepimply and made these moaning sounds and the guy I was watching with sorta looked all puzzed out at me. (snicker)
happy W/T love to all -Ill

I did feel Buffy was referring to both couples there at the end and I do believe SMG looked their way. And this I caught even though I expected Buffy's gushing to be all about x/a. So I will concurr and say it was bad direction.

I also think Tara stayed away because Willow told her not get close. Willow's taking care of her. Yes, it was a bit odd that there wasn't a hug or something, oh well. And I think that even in the beginning Tara is staying away from Willow's magical exploration. Either she can't keep up, or she is concerned about the effects this could have. I think it's a bit of both.

More, who thinks it was Tara that pointed out to Willow that her note taking was kind of insane, I liked that bit very much, with Tara saying it was quirky. I thought the Troll had some great lines as well, I'll pick them up on second viewing.

Hmm Willow hair, I liked it a lot more than I thought it would. And Buffy and Tara have a cool little comraderie thing. I liked all the interaction.

quote:

---

Originally posted by newmoon07:
I mean all this chaos goes on, Tara is obviously concerned about Willow--BUT--not once was there even a slight touch,hug, or "ARE YOU O.K.??"

---

Huh... this must have been cut as well:
Right after Willow wishes for a million dollars:

Tara goes immediately to Willow, hugs her.

TARA
(to Willow)
I'm so glad you're okay.

BUFFY
What's going on?...
**************

I do think this episode ran long though. There was a whole really funny scene with Giles, Willow and Anya that was cut... and Giles was cut completely out of the last scene in the magic box (he was supposed to be standing off to the side with Tara).

Did anyone notice how *long* the first act was? It didn't end until about 20-25 minutes after the hour!

Anyway, the script is up, and I'm going to bed.

#1 - Willow did tell Tara to stay back when the fight started, and at that point Tara was pinned on the other side of the shop from Willow and Anya. What was she supposed to do? Do one of those weaving-running paths ducking blows and swinging hammers?

#2 - I also LOVED the bit with "I call it quirky" at the beginning. I'm surprised none of the wild feed folks caught it, because it's *such* a good W/T moment.

I'll have to rewatch episode to check the directing when Buffy's having her meltdown, but the camera was cutting to both Xander/Anya and Willow/Tara, so it could be inferred that Buffy meant both couples. On the other hand, since the troll had been saying Xander and Anya wouldn't last, it is somewhat logical that Buffy would be more concerned about them.

It's too bad that the hug got cut. The one thing that was really odd about this episode was the timing. The second act break didn't come until almost 8:40! Act three was barely there! What's up with that?

Oh, and one last thing - I think there were two reasons Buffy sent Willow and Anya back to the magic shop instead of Willow and Tara. First, Willow and Anya had been there when the troll was released in the first place. Second, Tara was busy. After Willow and Anya leave, we can clearly see Tara off to the side helping one of the injured folks.

3 cheers for Rayne!

I knew something was missing in that scene. And you are most quick. GOd love ya.

Take the scene where Buffy and Tara rush into the Bronze. The director would have been the one to shoot the scene with Willow playing out the million-dollars gag instead of having Tara hug her, yes? That's not how I would have done it at all. If they were that pressed for time, they should have cut the "just checking" line - it's such a cliche that the gag actually works better with the last line unsaid, because the audience members are all filling it in themselves anyway. A hug from Tara would have been more true to character and a better bang for the few seconds they had available.

The long first act also suggests that someone didn't know which gags to cut. I can understand - they're all great gags, but if having too many interferes with the flow of the story you've got to cut some of them.

Even having said that, though, I still think this was one of the best eps of the year.

1. How HOT was Emma in that beginning scene?
She's so gorgeous. I want screen caps.

2. I loved Anya's little "bomb" warning to
Xander - it was sweet in that weird, tactless way of hers.

3. Liked Tara in this episode. Socializing with Buffy is a good thing, and it was nice to see her interact with someone besides
Willow.

4. What about the beaming expression on Tara's face when Willow shared her 'Cat In The Hat' joke? How adorable!

5. I too, felt the acting/directing of the A/W fighting scenes sounded and felt stifled.

6. One of my favorite lines:

"I'm not stealing. I'm just taking things and not paying for them. In what twisted dictionary is that stealing?"

LOL!

7. The Buffy/Dawn bonding scene was sweet and hit the right notes, I felt. Not too morose or melodramatic but still handled the issue okay.

8. "I said it's the end of the world. Weren't you listening?"

9. Buffy going into a conniption fit over
X/A - especially with the crying scene with Tara - lame. I guess she doesn't want them to end up like she is, but still - it's better than her moping over Riley the entire episode.

10. Finally, Anya/Willow, and magic - Anya knows all too well what can happen when you use magic powers unwisely - something she's not invested in now, because she's focused
on being a human. Willow is skirting close to the edge of where Anya was - maybe she could learn a bit from her, eh?

There's a very small difference between them.
Anya allowed her heartbreak to let her become a demon, and Willow dangerously toyed with that, and came close to doing the same thing. It's kind of like a Faith/Buffy thing,
if you think about it. Which makes Willow kind of a hypocrite, if she's playing with
the edge there, if she's accusing Anya of using magic for her own purposes - because she came very close to doing it, too.

I don't expect them to go into depth on that one, though. Especially since Anya isn't remorseful, but she is invested in her life as a human, esp. Xander. It's just something
to think about.

If Anya goes bad in the future, or flirts with going bad -- it may be an issue for Willow.

------------------
"I tried to be unlovable/why couldn't you do the same?"

-(jewel)

I love the arc they're doing with Spike. He's so funny.

Willow looked way cute. I just wish i hadn't been spoiled for her "gay now" line. I can only imagine what a trip that line would have been if i hadn't been expecting it. Spoiler ho no mo fo sho.

Is it just the power of suggestion or does Willow look like the cutest lesbian on the planet now? I like her hair a little curly if it's not long.

That's a good point about Willow turning down the same offer Anya accepted. That and their mutual protectiveness of Xander is the sort of synchronicity Joss loves.

quote:

---

Originally posted by BBOvenGuy:
Rayne, I think you're on to something about the director. I just got done with my third viewing and all the bothersome things go back to directing.

Take the scene where Buffy and Tara rush into the Bronze. The director would have been the one to shoot the scene with Willow playing out the million-dollars gag instead of having Tara hug her, yes? That's not how I would have done it at all. If they were that pressed for time, they should have cut the "just checking" line - it's such a cliche that the gag actually works better with the last line unsaid, because the audience members are all filling it in themselves anyway. A hug from Tara would have been more true to character and a better bang for the few seconds they had available.
Even having said that, though, I still think this was one of the best eps of the year.
special.

---

Tara goes immediately to Willow, hugs her.

TARA
(to Willow)
I'm so glad you're okay.

BUFFY
What's going on?
Where'd he come from?

1. argh! i thought we'd seen the end of buffy playing with dawn's hair. alas, twas not meant to be.

2. i felt like it took a little while to get into the rhythm of the show. it was a little weird going from the dialogue-heavy scenes with X/A and D/B, to the fast-moving scenes of the rest of the show.

3. loved when Xander corrected himself and said "i mean, my THREE favorite girls". yay! more tara inclusion!

4. loved the look tara gives when xander ducks behind her and says "protect me, tara!"

5. willow's impersonation of anya was pretty funny, and not too far off the mark, i thought.

6. i didn't mind the front of willow's hair, but the BACK! paging Shirley Temple!!

7. i'd also like to give a woo and hoo for the first troll scene, where willow seems almost to be holding anya!! watch it willow...you're supposed to be a one-woman woman! hee hee

8. tara's tank top - GOOD (did you see the little bit of shoulder? - yummy!)

9. tara's skirt - BAD (if you're gonna have the girl run...please, oh please give her some pants!) don't even get me started on the big bag she was carrying when she was with buffy.

10. loved buffy grabbing tara's hand to lead her off to find willow.

11. what's up with the poster for the "String Cheese Incident" when B/T come into the Bronze for the first time? wasn't that in another ep too (maybe NMR?)?

12. kudos not only to xander for not choosing one of the girls, but bigger kudos to anya for offering herself as a sacrifice!! that got a big "awwww" outta me!

13. although i hate to say it, i almost felt like willow was being WAY childish through the whole episode. it's like Anya was Superego to willow's Id (or do i have that backwards). i'm kind of scared to see where this overtly reckless behavior of willow's will lead us. WE NEED some more tara in the spells for control (i'm a firm believer that tara brings control to their spell relationship). could be wrong, though.

14. spoiler-free and staying that way! when i heard the "Gay now" line, i about fell outta my chair. holy cow!

oops, kinda long. sorry about that!
------------------

W: "I am a whiz!"
T: "She is a whiz!"
W: "If ever a whiz there was..."
- The Yoko Factor

[This message has been edited by christa monsta (edited January 10, 2001).]

I figured out a way to make the scene where Buffy and Tara charge into the Bronze work better, too. Check this out:

*****

WILLOW: I wish Buffy was here.

BUFFY ENTERS.

BUFFY (not hearing Willow): I'm here!

WILLOW (considers, then): I wish I had a million dollars!

TARA ENTERS, THEN IMMEDIATELY GOES TO WILLOW AND HUGS HER.

TARA: I'm so glad you're okay!

WILLOW (considers again, smiles): That'll work, too.

*****

christa, i agree that watching this ep unspoiled was certainly a treat. well, almost unspoiled, anyway. other than what i saw from the trailer, i knew three things: a)"hello, gay now!" (which would have been great to see unspoiled) b) the fact that tara and buffy bond and c) that there was lots of tara

i thoroughly enjoyed watching all the other parts of the ep unfold without knowing about them beforehand. and although the writing (and editing) for tara left a bit to be desired, overall i thought that this ep had some of the best writing this season. it was packed with all the witty little lines that i'd been missing in earlier eps (can you say "into the woods", anyone?).

My newest favorite Tara moment came in this ep. "Buffy, somethings been here and Willow's gone!" Oh the pain and worry in her eyes...Amber is such a fabulous actress.
This ep really made me sit back and realize once again what a great group of actors and actresses we have on Buffy. No one has such a special individuality like Willow, every line she delivers has her distinct style in it and they play in my head for days afterward. In the scene with Dawn, I felt Buffys pain. Forget that I threw myself a party when Riley finally left, I could almost feel how sad Buff was. Go SMG with your Golden Globe nomination! I hope she wins. And Amber...that one line about Willow in the magic shop makes me just go "Wow, this gal is amazing."

The funniest scene for me from this ep is Spike and the dummy but the funniest scene from the script is when W/A go back to the magic shop and Giles is there, damn I wished they would have put that in the ep and what about Giles’s last line in the shop…Where's the cash register?

I don’t understand why they didn’t show Tara hugging Willow when she comes in to the Bronze, the fact that she doesn't, just doesn't make sense, after being so worried about Willow, they could have cut a few seconds somewhere else and showed it but oh well, we did get the G word…twice

13. although i hate to say it, i almost felt like willow was being WAY childish through the whole episode.

End quotation

Glad to see that someone else felt this way. I don't think Willow was behaving very nicely, especially during the first third of the show. In retrospect it made sense. Anya was just being Anya, but in order to set up a conflict that wasn't enough; Willow had to do something to bring her into a dispute with Anya in order to set up the conflict.

On the other hand, if Willow was a little out of character, Tara was dead-on--all gentle supportive kindness. And, I thought, particularly beautiful in her first scene seated at the table with the scoobies.

Now the last time I remember such a glaring editing issue was with The Yoko Factor (?), when Tara was caressing/rubbing Willow's neck and that was snipped in favor of a computer screenshot. Joss acknowledged this and said that the touching itself looked awkward and he didn't like it, so he replaced it. These awkward edits seem to be put in at the last minute for whatever. Am I just too focused on W/T to notice this happening with other couples and/or other scenes? Cause it just seems to happen around W/T.

Another thing, it must be such a pain in the ass for Joss to have to constantly fight to have W/T show affection to each other. If I were in his place, I would get so tired of being bogged down by these issues day in and day out, that I wouldn't even want to show W/T at all. It's just such a hassle. For a couple that takes up let's say 7% of screentime, I wonder if he has to expend 20% of his energy dealing with all the hoo-ha over it. Joss, as usual, rocks.

I just read the shooting script. Looks like they cut out a whole chunk of very funny Giles. So maybe it's not a conspiracy, just a new editor or something.

quote:

---

Originally posted by november:
I don't think Willow was behaving very nicely, especially during the first third of the show. In retrospect it made sense. Anya was just being Anya, but in order to set up a conflict that wasn't enough; Willow had to do something to bring her into a dispute with Anya in order to set up the conflict.

On the other hand, if Willow was a little out of character,

---

For example "Hello, still Jewish", and "Hello, dating a musician."

And "Bored now." "Falling now."

I knew as soon as I saw that line that some folks on Brand X boards would try to interpret it as "Gay at this moment, but subject to change."

Well, phooey. It's like the folks who said things last year about "Well Joss considers all relationships on the show to be romantic, so when he says W and T are in a romantic relationship, it doesn't mean anything." It's grasping at straws. It's trying to parse what the definition of "is" is. Willow is gay. The folks who can deal with that reality will do so, and they won't worry excessively about the word "now", or freak out if Willow actually finds some random guy vaguely cute or whatever. The folk who can't, can't, no matter how emphatically or elaborately it's explained to them.

Of course, I made the mistake of going to the Bronze last night and got into a couple of arguments, so I'm cranky.

-len

First thoughts:

Xander and Anya fans have no fear. They aren’t going to be breaking up anytime soon. You want to know how I figured this out?

Well you know the last episode where I got the feeling the writer was using Xander to speak for them in reference to Riley. Well I got the feeling they were using Buffy to make their intentions clear here. Yes Buffy is upset because Riley’s gone (I was afraid of that) and she could be all out of her head and it did feel that way, but I still feel like the writer’s were using Buffy to make their intentions clear about what will be happening to the other couples. On the plus side, after this I see Willow and Tara to continue going strong.

Also they cleared the whole Willow/Anya fighting, which I hate, actually. I liked the fact that Anya and Willow didn’t get along. Oh well. And I’m sure I am probably the only one that didn’t find the Willow and Anya scene’s funny. I’m not sure why, but most of the stuff that was supposed to be funny fell flat to me.

However, I am glad to see Willow and Xander (as a potential couple) put to rest. I enjoyed the flirting and stuff but it’s nice to know it’s over and I like Willow and Tara and want to see them make it.

Anyway as for the episode itself, I think the only good parts were, Willow’s “Hello, gay now” line and the scene between Spike and Xander in The Bronze, anyway to me these are the only parts worth watching again.

Although it is nice to see that with Riley gone, all the characters are getting a fair amount of screen time now.

There was also some other good parts, I swear Spike copped a feel when the Troll threw Buffy on him. But does anyone else get the feeling to writers are going to use Spike to show us how great Riley was? I’m not sure what give me that feeling but I was thinking it all through the episode. Enough with Riley! He’s gone. We (the audience) have moved on, so I say the show should move on.

The episode itself was better than Into The Woods, but still ranks very low, for me. But again on the plus side I felt this episode was building toward bigger and better things.

As for Xander and Anya, while I still don’t like their relationship, I am willing to bet that it is here to stay after Triangle.

On a sadder note, for those of us wanting some kind of Xander/Buffy resolution. It’s not going to happen, because as I said above Xander and Anya seem to be here to stay, and after the way Buffy acted tonight I don’t see anything happening between her and Xander even if Anya left.

Now one last question, before I stop: When are they going to de rat Amy? I for one am getting tired of it.

If the actress is busy with other stuff de rat her and have Amy move on, or just kill the Amy rat and be done with it.

Note: I am sorry that my last two Buffy reviews have been, well not happy. But I really didn’t enjoy these last two episodes. I am hoping the next episode will be good and I can write a happy review.

(one more thing, i think this IS an important issue to discuss...even if it DOES eventually just get down to semantics.)

That line also sounded suspiciously like one of those throwaway lines that comes back later in the season to bite someone in the ass. And the rumor is that Amy will be getting de-ratted this season...

My favorite line of the episode is still "I said 'quirky'," though.

Nor so for Willow and Tara. I don't think the "gay now" line cheapens Willow and Oz's relationship at all or declares that she isn't bisexual. It's more like "hello, I have
a woman now, I don't need to patrol for guys"
kind of thing. It doesn't mean that she didn't love Oz or she didn't love Xander. She just doesn't anymore (well, romantically). Shippers may have a problem with this. And I still stand by my assertion that Willow/Oz ended on a good note, still
caring about each other but Willow admitting she had moved on and Oz accepting it.

I thought ITW was an episode of total manipulative crap and Xander's speech was the worst part of it. The sooner Buffy gets over Riley, the better, cuz the 'points' made about Buffy/Riley in that episode sounded totally false to me. And it doesn't help that I hated him and I never want him to
come back and I think Buffy's MUCH better off
without him. With all her troubles, a self-destructive boyfriend is the last thing she needs (it beats an evil ex-boyfriend that wants to kill you, but still . . . not good).
And I don't want any further manipulative points about this and that. It's over. Maybe
Buffy'll learn something. Maybe not. But either way she still has a little sister to protect and I'd much rather hear about THAT.

------------------
"I tried to be unlovable/why couldn't you do the same?"

-(jewel)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hugin:
I knew as soon as I saw that line that some folks on Brand X boards would try to interpret it as "Gay at this moment, but subject to change."

Well, phooey. It's like the folks who said things last year about "Well Joss considers all relationships on the show to be romantic, so when he says W and T are in a romantic relationship, it doesn't mean anything." It's grasping at straws. It's trying to parse what the definition of "is" is.

---

Exactly! Thank you Len for pointing this out.

I took "Hello, gay now" to be the equivalent of "Hello, not straight any more and therefore not a threat to you," but in a more concise and Willow-ish fashion. To microanalyze the word "now" into an implication that Willow will suddenly start liking guys again is simply annoying.

quote:

---

Willow is gay. The folks who can deal with that reality will do so, and they won't worry excessively about the word "now", or freak out if Willow actually finds some random guy vaguely cute or whatever. The folk who can't, can't, no matter how emphatically or elaborately it's explained to them.

---

--Lovin' the Buffy Melodramatic stuff. I like cheese campy crap and she was all over it. Had the thought of, "Well, I can see why she won the Emmy for AMC.." I loved it..the little quiver of the bottom lip--break my heart!

--I too noticed the lack of Buffy's focus on saying how great w/t's love was--but, why that is seems to be up for debate.

--Line that had me laughing early on:
Dawn: Watcha doin'
Buffy: Playing soccer

Maybe it's just my sick, simple sense of humor but I loved it.

--Amber is the queen of unspoken emotions--her looks were all over this episode and she was great. Aside from her ability, I do have to wonder: What the hell was up with her hair? Did it look like it was malformed on her head?

--Anya is becoming one of my faves..I've begun to look forward to her screen time as much as I do willow or taras.

--Spike is adorable...and gropey.

Ok, plan on going home tonight and obsessively watching it.

That's why I support the Hello, gay now line. Not because I have so very much invested in Willow being gay per se, if anything I've tended to be in the Willow-as-bi camp. But it's clear that very few folks (outside of this wonderful board) can deal with any complexity in this matter. I can now use the line like a big...frozen...halibut to beat the foolish over the head with. Which is to say, it's not exactly the tool I would have picked, but it helps get a job done that clearly needs doing.

Anything poor Willow says or does that doesn't support a total alignment with W/T, and/or gayness (The mention of the old crush on Giles. The mild infatuation with Drac. The failure to, I dunno, shoot Oz dead or something during the van scene) just unleashes a new round of second guessing, which annoys me to no end. Imagine if she was insane enough to compliment a shirt:

"Oh, nice shirt Xander."

Clearly, that means:

"Ah, see, she just flirted with Xander, she really loves him, and all men, see!"

Bah.

I really need to stay away from the Bronze. Oy.

My fav line apart from "Hello, gay now" was the lil "baby" dialogue between troll man and Spike with Xander's great reaction. I absolutely adore Spike and thought the scene with the dummy was HYSTERICAL. If Spike does get that chip out, I have a feeling Buffy will be in HUGE trouble after all this angst.

I also loved Tara bonding with Buffy and a bit with Xander (though not directly with him). There was a thread awhile back about who could Tara be buds with apart from Willow, and in a weird way I could totally see her be buddies with Xander or Buffy. Buffy could use some stong but quiet women types around her. Buff has a lot of male role models which may also contribute to the way she handles relationships and she could use some of Willow's feminity and Tara's strength.

Anyhoo...now I'm rambling

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hugin:
Now all Amy needs is Pinky, and she can take over the world!

---

what are we going to do today amy? lol!

len, i am loving this and all your other posts to this thread. hee hee!

and crista, i'm totally with you: i tend to be against labels, but it was sooooo nice to hear willow say those three magic words in front of an audience of millions last night.

now personally, i'm fine with willow defining her sexuality any way she chooses. if she defines it according to the person that she's with (a perfectly valid option), then yes, she is gay now, she was not gay before, and whether or not she's gay in the future depends on who she dates in the future. (though i hope that she and tara are together forever and ever...*cue violins*)

there is just nothing that can be done about the people who use the "now" in that phrase to try and prove that willow isn't "really" gay. she and tara could kiss 10 times an episode, embark on epic onscreen sexathons a la buffy and riley, have a commitment ceremony and start a family by adopting little wicclets to keep mkf company, and the people who don't like their relationship will still say that it won't last, that they don't see any chemistry between w/t and that they know willow is really straight. there is just no convincing them, so we might as well revel in lines like "hello, gay now!" and ignore the lame people who say lame things.

But as much as I like this speculation, I don't see it happening.

Although, the "Greek tragedy" reference from Restless could be foreshadowing the choice Buffy will need to make regarding the fate of Dawn. Not that I know what Greek tragedy is...

Devlin, my guess on the "Greek Theme" is that it's Joss' (or another of the writers) in-joke about their own college years. Did any of them major or minor in classics? We know Joss went to school in England and has mini Shaxspur Fests at his house with the BTVS cast.

I liked the ep, esp. Abraham Benrubi as Olaf, but the overal pacing seemed uneven.

I'll chalk that up to a newbie director and poor editing.

Fave moments other than "Hello, gay now!"

Xander hiding behind Tara

The Smarter Amy lines

Foreshadowing Alert:

I think the idea of Willow getting too cavlier with magic will become more important. Remember in "Out of My Mind" Tara seemed concerned that Willow tampered with the "Tinkerbell Light Spell", and in "Family" Tara is "spell gal" to keep up w/ Willow.

"ANYA
You're going away for a week?
That's great!

GILES
Yes, yes. Everyone seems quite
delighted about it.

ANYA
Well, I get to run the store, right?

GILES
You... There's quite a lot for
one person to do...
(consults a list)
The trashmen, for example. They've
been making such a mess in the alley
that the recycling people can't get
in there to collect. Someone has to
talk to them. Also, there's some
health inspector who has decided that
potions are technically "food," and
that we need a full inspection.

ANYA
I can take care of that.

XANDER
Food? Who's sitting around saying,
hey, I could go for some tasty potion.

Since when aren't bi people gay? All of my bi friends consider themselves gay. They wouldn't refer to themselves as lesbians, but gay isn't off limits.

Does anyone else see it this way?

Hmmm...

"Hello, grinding tofu now!"

quote:

---

Originally posted by judy:
"Hello, grinding tofu now!"

---

ROFLMAO, judy!!!! hee hee hee... hello!

oh and ashley, i noticed that as well...willow initially implied that both she and tara were working on the spell, but later tara just seems to have dropped out of the picture. hey willow! let tara play too!

Anyone can think what they want. And interpretations can all be valid. So I'll give mine. I have no doubt that the writers have decided that Willow is a lesbian. Let's remember that they didn't want to use labels at all ever. They just wanted things to just be. Something changed and they decided to do that. Joss felt that it wasn't possible not to. So they chose gay and they chose to use it twice. Not only that they chose to use it in a way that was going to make Anya feel better. Willow and the writers used the word gay to prove to Anya that Willow would never try to steal Xander away because as of now she's gay. I am also satisfied with the responsible attitude that Joss and company have dealt with this whole thing that their use of the word gay guarantees that Willow won't be with a guy again. I don't think they would want to confuse the issue.

I am left with something though. And I will admit that I don't like the idea, only cause I am so attached to her. Tara hasn't declared her sexuality. It may be Tara in the end that ends up being bisexual.

Gotta mention Alyson Hannigan, she's remarkable. Her timing and delivery were perfect.

"In what twisted dictionary is that stealing?"

"He's not a ball of sunshine."

"I wish I had a million dollars."

I was LMAO at her expression when she found out Anya had never driven before. And her Anya imitation was dead on. Too good. I adore Willow.

Willow kind of stumbled into the relationship
and realized it worked for her, I think. She
didn't expect it, but it happened.

Either way, I don't want a guy - or another girl - to come between them. Ever. Stupid and unrealistic I know but I'm a stickler for it.

------------------
"I tried to be unlovable/why couldn't you do the same?"

-(jewel)

Just wanted to give a plug to the newly available Triangle screen caps from Adrienne at Extra Flamey
and at Stain and Varnish
GO DRI!

Editing to add: I was of course referring to the post before this one Xita, don't post when I'm posting will ya...

quote:

---

Originally posted by xita:
I am left with something though. And I will admit that I don't like the idea, only cause I am so attached to her. Tara hasn't declared her sexuality. It may be Tara in the end that ends up being bisexual.

---

here i go again with my morning xita stalking, um, i mean, quoting.

especially after seeing triangle, i doubt that we will ever see any evidence that tara is bisexual. in fact, i doubt we'll ever see any evidence of tara being attracted to anyone else - it is just so clear that she is singlemindedly, wholeheartedly devoted to willow. willow is her entire world, you can see that so clearly by the look on her face when she's in the magic shop telling buffy that willow's gone, by the way she tells willow at the end of family that she always makes her feel special. i don't think tara can even conceive of being attracted to someone else.

for all intents and purposes, tara's sexual orientation is really neither gay nor bisexual - it's just willow.

April, you said it perfectly. Her sexual orientation IS willow.

and the wb scoop review says:

"Perhaps the most interesting tidbit here is the presence of the first affirmative and unflinching admission by our favorite Wiccan coed that she is, in fact, gay. We all knew this, of course. Any actual question concerning the nature of the Tara–Willow relationship went out the window a long time ago. But there is something to be said for announcing her sexual preference to the world."

yes! yes there is! even discounting all the other wonderful things about "triangle", that one line assures that this is going to be remembered as a momentous episode in the history of buffy.

She's got the horrible family, telling her that the magic is evil. Which has got to conflict with the way the magic feels inside to her.

Andthen, she's brave enough to break away from them, and heads off tocollegs, and reaches out to other wiccans, and finds...they're kinda shallow and don't seem to have any real power.

And then, boom. Willow. Cute (did I mention that already?) and with real power. I don't think its much of an exaggeration to say that when Tara met Willow, she found something she had been looking for her whole life.