Ahead.

start!

First, W/T moments…

- At the funeral, Willow was holding Tara’s hand and with her other hand was rubbing her arm, sweet scene and Tara leaning on Willow's shoulder was very sweet too.

- The bedroom scene where Willow is writing in her journal, as good as that scene is when you’re reading it, it’s soooo much better when you actually see it, when Tara lies down next to Willow, she plays with her sleeve and when Willow says “down to every last everything with you” she grabs Tara’s hand and the way they are looking at each other…ohhhhh…you will feel the love kittens.

- Willow was really nervous when Tara noticed the book was gone but you can see that she really didn’t mean any harm by what she did, I can see this becoming an argument in the future but not a really big fight.

I did like what Spike said to Xander and the way he said it and when Dawn was in the magic shop, Anya had a few funny lines

The Buffy/Angel scenes were ok I guess, since I wasn’t watching the show back then when the whole B/A thing was happening, I’m not really connected to them as a couple but I guess B/A shippers will be happy

Lastly I have to say that the last scene with Buffy and Dawn, when the silhouette passes in the window behind them and Buffy says “mommy” and goes to open the door and Dawn tears up the pic of Joyce and then Buffy opens the door and there’s nothing there…damn that was chilling, especially if you’ve read The Monkey’s Paw.

All and all, a good ep, oh btw, the line Willow says, “little boobs”, I found a cute smiley to go with it…

Page 12D
Critic's Corner
By Robert Bianco
* After a seven-week wait, Buffy the Vampire Slayer (WB, tonight at 8 ET/PT) returns with an original episode that follows the Summers' girls' divergent reactions to their mother's funeral -- and that offers a beautifully insightful lesson in loss and letting go. It's a somber, fitting companion to February's exceptional The Body episode about Joyce's death -- an episode so good that fans have launched a campaign to win the show and creator Joss Whedon an Emmy. It's long overdue -- as is this new episode.

Tara's mom and grandma were wicca's and she was raised in the "religion" so I'm not surprised that she has a "wicca moral code" where these kinds of life and death spells are not to be played with. I think her learning and repecting the wicca oaths could just as easily explain her reluctance to help dawn with the spell

as for dawn, I think doc has tricked her into offering her own life for joyces resurrection

doc had a tail and hummed peter and the wolf, if he has canine in him he could tell dawn was the key

Doc took a piece of dawns hair and he gave her a piece of paper with a spell to say to bring her mom back

Dawn says three times

OSIRIS GIVER OF DARKNESS TAKER OF LIFE GOD OF GODS ACCEPT MY OFFERING
BONE FLESH BREATH YOURS ETERNALLY

It sounds to me like doc has tricked dawn into offering her mortal self wrapper (bone flesh breath eternally) as a offering to osiris for the return of joyce

My theory now is that buffy is going to push dawn to find out about doc and the spell and the witches are going to be called in to help Dawn with her indebtedness to Osiris problem, which is all going to lead to tara finding out that not only did willow point dawn to the wicca history book but she lied to tara about the situation,

and I don't think we have seen the end of doc by a long shot

willow takes more of a pragmatic, approach to witchcraft, its there, you learn about it, control it and adapt/use it to solve problems. Pointing dawn to the magic history book was in line with willows learn /deal/adapt/overcome approach to dealing with life, hacking and magick.

Tara has had a life time of parental guidance and witchcraft is more a 'religion/calling' for her with rules and end zones and lines you don't cross.

I'm thinking willows pointing dawn in the direction of the magic book and then not coming clean with tara is probably going to percipitate
a fight between willow and tara.

The scene with Giles listening to Cream was so beautiful and subtle...that's the sort of elegant writing that makes this show the best thing on TV.

The final scene with Buffy and Dawn was, I think, even more heart-rending than what we saw in The Body...say what you will about SMG, she's a damn fine actor.

As for Willow and Tara...well, I don't really want to think about where things are going, so I'll just say two words: sassy eggs. I just love the way Amber delivers that line...it's really dry, almost British, if that makes any sense. Thank god there was a little bit of humor in this ep.

And I don't know how this is possible, but Amber seems to get more beautiful with each ep. Or maybe I should say, "Okay, I keep thinking, 'She's the most beautiful person ever', and then she gets even beautifuller and completely resets the whole scale!"

i liked angel's appearance more than i thought i would. i honestly thought id hate it, but when they took each others hand i just filled with "awww"-ness. Anything that comforts buffy is a-ok with me.
happy to see buffy and dawn are going to be much, much closer now. when they collapsed onto the ground i couldnt keep my tears in any longer ;.;

i haven't read the shooting script yet, which i hope will me posted soon (corsses fingers), but that scene with tara, willow and dawn sucked. not the whole scene just the mention/transition to witchcraft. like when tara said, "we're witches, we know stuff." she could have simply talked about her understanding how dawn felt cause her own mom died and how she maybe wanted to do the same. it just didn't flow for me. especially since they came back to xander and anya after the break.

and let's not get into that whole sex for making a life crap. it's not always about making a life, especially in w/t's case, it's about love. it just seemed wrong.

it was hilarious how tara told willow that's not the point. isn't that from restless? just tara being so dominating about witchcraft rocked.

sassy boobs.... teehee

I loved this episode. It's a good transition from the body to the rest of the season. The last scene at the end was heart breaking. I really cried. It hit me more than the body. I think it is because I relate very much to what Buffy is feeling right then and there. It is tough to realize you are the one people depend on, kinda scary.

I too was bothered by that bit with sex is best when you can rub bodies and make babies, then cut to w/t. ACK! I hope they did that on purpose. Please god tell me they did it on purpose.

W/T are adorable. I don't think they have ever seemed more like a couple. I really could die of cuteness. Anyone notice that the Tara leaning on Willow at the funeral thing was actually a hug from Tara. Right as the scene fades into them you can see Tara's right arm is around Willow's shoulders. Lovely!

Ok, Doc is very creepy. Scares me lots!

sleep deprived xita. going to bed now. more later.

editing to add.. I was watching the scene again where Tara tells Dawn there's just no way they would do that and I see what part of the problem is. Willow wants to be liked. Particularly, she wants Dawn to like her and think she's cool. Dawn recoils from her touch and this upsets Willow a lot. Willow makes the mistake of thinking that "spoiling" the child will make the child like her. Tara knows that setting the limits and telling it like it is is the way to go even at the expense of the "cool" factor. I think Willow wanted Dawn to feel better and become informed but more importantly she wanted Dawn to still like her, still think she's cool.

And it's probably why Willow doesn't fess up at the end. She wouldn't want to admit that she helped Dawn out because she wanted Dawn not to be upset at her and still think she's cool. It's hard to admit that kind of stuff.

I agree with Xita about Willow's motivations here. It makes sense. Willow did not show Dawn that book with the intent to help Dawn resurrect Joyce.

Willow can be very mature, but at times she's just, well she is just Willow. She is not perfect. Duh. But her heart is in the right place. She made a mistake, but she did not intent to do harm. Nor did she intent to lie to Tara, I think. Maybe she was afraid Tara would get angry, or maybe she was embarrassed because of the reason she showed Dawn the book.

i'm confused, though, as to how our normally perceptive tara could possibly not have noticed that willow was hiding something when they discussed dawn's taking the book. it just doesn't seem right to me. then again, perhaps tara was being logical and focusing on how to solve the problem rather than how the problem occurred in the first place. so perhaps now that the problem is resolved, the subject of how dawn found out about the book will come up again.

i also wonder how long it will take willow, tara and giles to wonder how on earth dawn got the egg that the spell needed. perhaps when they confront the buffybot next week, they'll also find out that spike helped dawn. and like spike said, buffy will NOT be pleased.

the whole xander/anya sex/life thing: i think it's good for them to show that anya is gaining more and more humanity, but my god what a cheesy scene! i was expecting xander to have a witty line about not being ready for children, but instead it was all waaaay too earnest. and i don't think that anyone, i mean *anyone*, wants to see them reproduce right now. oh no.

quote:

---

Originally posted by tvsurfer:

doc had a tail and hummed peter and the wolf, if he has canine in him he could tell dawn was the key

It sounds to me like doc has tricked dawn into offering her mortal self wrapper (bone flesh breath eternally) as a offering to osiris for the return of joyce

---

2 things:

How would Doc being from the canine family make him able to detect whether or not Dawn was the key? I mean, he DID mistake spike for someone else(he even mentioned the different physical characteristics)--wouldn't smell alone have determined that?

2)I think you're off on the spell--w/Doc trying to trick Dawn into offering her "mortal self wrapper". We were not privy to all of the ingredients of the spell. The: BONE FLESH BREATH could reference the Egg that seemed to be a VERY important ingredient of the spell. The YOURS ETERNALLY could very well make refrence to the zombie being a sort of property of Osiris--a god of the underworld and ressurection.

Being a "newbie" and only having watched S5, I was really impressed with last night's episode. I am so thankful that there are five new episodes to follow in a row bcuz the ending just kept me wanting for more....

I loved that they showed W/T being more affectionate. And I am glad that when Dawn wanted to go stay overnight by W/T that they showed Buffy hesitate at first and then she said OK.

I am glad that Spike helped Dawn, but wondering where is his true motivation coming from?

And all I can say about Xander/Anya in bed "we could be making a life" is what the fuh??

I will never be able to look at eggs again without thinking of boobs.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Banshee:
2 things:

How would Doc being from the canine family make him able to detect whether or not Dawn was the key? I mean, he DID mistake spike for someone else(he even mentioned the different physical characteristics)--wouldn't smell alone have determined that?

---

Giles' notes, "Blood Ties":
"The Key is also susceptible to necromanced animal detection, particularly those of canine or serpent construct…"

And Doc DID eventually realize what Spike was; I think the 'you're that guy!' bit was just showing a personality quirk.

quote:

---

2)I think you're off on the spell--w/Doc trying to trick Dawn into offering her "mortal self wrapper". We were not privy to all of the ingredients of the spell. The: BONE FLESH BREATH could reference the Egg that seemed to be a VERY important ingredient of the spell. The YOURS ETERNALLY could very well make refrence to the zombie being a sort of property of Osiris--a god of the underworld and ressurection.

---

Toatally agreeing here. I don't think Dawn's eternal soul is in trouble. Not from Osiris, anyway.

I really loved this ep, and I don't think it was just because it came on the heels of a huge Buffy drought. It was a good way to make life move on for the gang after the devastating loss of Joyce. And I'm glad they didn't go with a jokey ep immediately after The Body (they saved it for next week, apparently) because the gang definitely needed some closure: Willow going to visit her Mom, Giles having a sentimental moment at home with alcohol and "Tales of Great Ulyses;" and I even found some thematic closure in Tara's affirmation of her strong Wiccan beliefs - letting us know that moral codes about respecting the value of the natural order of life and death transcend religious boundaries by ebbing into inherent humanity.

Of course, the most significant closure came with Buffy and Dawn's reconciliation at the end, which was very touching and well-played (it could have easily been overly sentimental). I was very happy to see them come together and lean on each other at this time.

When Dawn and Spike break into the magic box and get giles notes on 'the key' they read
"The Key is also susceptible to necromanced
animal detection, particularly those of canine or serpent construct…"

so if 'doc' (who is an underworld god according to variety) has a tail and is humming peter and the wolf, he may have taken on some necromanced canine form and thus be able to see 'dawn as the key'

as for the spell that 'doc' give dawn he gives it to her on paper, he never says it out loud. and spike had told dawn if the spell required more than just dirt then it wasn't the mom she knew that would be brought back

Dawn says three times

OSIRIS GIVER OF DARKNESS
TAKER OF LIFE
GOD OF GODS
ACCEPT MY OFFERING
BONE FLESH BREATH YOURS ETERNALLY

from these words it appears osiris is the god of death and the offering dawn is offering for the return of joyce is her human wrapper

dawns offering to him bone flesh and breath

when she stole the first egg she broke it and there was no chick inside, just
egg white and egg yolk, there were no bones or flesh and certainly no breath.

the only thing breathing in that spell casting circle was Dawn.

I loved the W/T bed scene. Go Tara with her Sassy Eggs. When Tara lay down beside Willow on the bed and started playing with her sleeve and holding her hand I was like..AWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!

I also loved Tara's vehement stance on the wiccan oath. Go TARA!!! I was really impressed with the way she took charge with Dawn. I could totally see her having tried the resurrection spell on her mom. It would explain her family's treatment of her.

Two things I didn't really like about the W/T scenes: 1) Tara noticing the book missing. Nothing drew her attention to the bookcase. She just looked over and saw it was gone. It didn't look natural. I think it would have worked better if she was at the bookshelf looking for something and noticed it. 2) Tara saying "We're witches, we know stuff." This also didn't seem natural. Especially with what we know about Tara's past. I would have liked to see Tara reach out to Dawn seeing as she lost her mom as well.

I was worried about Willow's actions until the scene when Tara saw the book missing. I totaly agree that Willow was not trying to help Dawn find the spell but that she wanted Dawn to realize how dangerous it was. She really didn't think Dawn would try it, especially since Dawn has no wiccan training. Although, collectively, they should have realized Dawn has the power to do magic and more. She's the key. They have to remember that. She's obviously VERY powerful if Glory needs her.

Doc was great. I am looking forward to seeing him in future episodes. Here's a theory on him. He was wistling Peter and the wolf, he had a tail, he growled...what if he's some sort of werewolf? Willow would probably be able to sense it (having previously dated one). This might cause some tension between her and Tara. Just a theory.

Wow...I really rambled on. Sorry guys.

I'll be quiet now. *slides into lurk mode for a bit*

edited to add WOO HOO!!! I'm a Doll's Eye Crystal!!!!!!!!!!! *does snoopy dance*
------------------
"Lord what fools these mortals be."

As for w/t scenes, I was kind of shocked with Willow's little 'boobs' line. Joss really is pushing to the limits. I mean, it's obvious what was going through Willow's mind, heh heh.....

I like that Tara is so much more forceful these days. She shows much confidence, especially when talking about the Wiccan spells and the oath. It made me wonder if she too had researched a resurrection spell when her own mother died?

She tried so hard to reach out to Dawn, with the knowing how hard it is, and how it seems unfair. It cut me when Dawn insisted that Tara didn't know how she felt; I wonder if perhaps Willow might have had words with Dawn some other time and told her that Tara did indeed know how she felt?

Doc creeped me out, to be honest. There was something 'not quite right' about him. Ick. I didn't get all that stuff about him recognising Spike though.....although my gf suggested it was like Peter denying Jesus three times....far-fetched maybe, but the word resurrection only has one meaning for me. And it *was* Easter just last weekend. Sort of makes me wonder if Joss had all this planned out way way ahead of time this season.....ick again....I'm creeped out by Joyce's zombie self.

The most powerful moment for me was when Joyce knocked at the door and it was Buffy, pushing all her rationality aside, who flung it open. The way she said 'mommy' and the look on her face just killed me. So painful. If anything, I think that was the moment she realised that she had to give into the pain in order to move on from it.

Phew.

Rambling again....sorry folks.

quote:

---

Originally posted by tvsurfer:
Banshee and Kalita

When Dawn and Spike break into the magic box and get giles notes on 'the key' they read
"The Key is also susceptible to necromanced
animal detection, particularly those of canine or serpent construct…"

so if 'doc' (who is an underworld god according to variety) has a tail and is humming peter and the wolf, he may have taken on some necromanced canine form and thus be able to see 'dawn as the key'

as for the spell that 'doc' give dawn he gives it to her on paper, he never says it out loud. and spike had told dawn if the spell required more than just dirt then it wasn't the mom she knew that would be brought back

Dawn says three times

OSIRIS GIVER OF DARKNESS
TAKER OF LIFE
GOD OF GODS
ACCEPT MY OFFERING
BONE FLESH BREATH YOURS ETERNALLY

from these words it appears osiris is the god of death and the offering dawn is offering for the return of joyce is her human wrapper

dawns offering to him bone flesh and breath

when she stole the first egg she broke it and there was no chick inside, just
egg white and egg yolk, there were no bones or flesh and certainly no breath.

the only thing breathing in that spell casting circle was Dawn.

[This message has been edited by tvsurfer (edited April 18, 2001).]

---

Ok..haven't set the scripts to memory yet--so, the canine reference skipped my mind.

I'm still thinking the egg was key..(sorry if this sounds pro-life), but that shell contained life--molecules of flesh, bone, respitory function.. it never said in the spell that it had to be fully matured. The OFFERING is a sacrifice--she handed over the essence of life(again, hoping I'm not coming off pro-life) in order for it to be channeled into her mothers corpse.

Maybe the Doc is after dawn in some way, but I don't think that spell had any underlying meaning.

-Shannon

------------------
*~*~*~*~* I'm gonna be a fireman when the floods roll back. There's trees in the desert since you moved out. And I don't sleep on a bed of bones *~*~*~*~*

He asked them if either dawn or spike were witches and then gave them a tricky spell to do

If they were witches would he have given them the spell? or was he checking to see if he could put one past them

If the egg had an embryo in it I could buy the bone and flesh part, but still the only Breath in the circle was dawns. And they went to the trouble of showing the first egg that broke as being a yoke and egg white no embryo.

and I'm not convinced spike helped out of the kindness of his black heart

The shooting script for Forever is up!

I posted Disharmony earlier today.

Enjoy (I know you’re going straight to the Willow/Tara moments!

Oh, and did Tara’s line “That’s not the point.” stand out for anyone else? She said that in “Restless” too. I’m thinking that was foreshadowing the fact that Willow often reacts without thinking.

I loved it. Much more so than The Body, it hit everything right-on.

I don't think anyone needs to worry about Anya and Xander procreating. At least not for a while. If their relationship lasts the show
and they both stick around until the end, there could be a baby/pregnancy at the end of the final season. But not before then.

Anya was so cute about the entire thing. "Breathe. You're turning colors."

Besides, any excuse for extra Emma skin is okay with me

Willow and Tara were sweet, as always. I really like how Tara has sort of develped into the emotional centre in the wake of Joyce's death and as the voice of calm and reason.

Bringing someone back from the dead is not a good thing, and Tara obviously understands that. Willow seems to be stuck in the whole "if it can be done, why can't we do it?" and
seems to rationalize that if it helps Dawn feel better, she doesn't *really* have a problem with it.

Willow needs to learn that boundaries can exist, as she hasn't before - and she's specifically tried to mess with questionable
stuff before, such as cursing Oz in WAH, a malicious spell done out of pure anguish that
would have had disastrous results if she had not stopped herself.

When you're talking about bringing people back from the dead - not a good idea. Even if you can.

I'm sorry, but I thought Willow was being really, really dumb about this. I mean, Spike
helped Dawn, but he has no soul, no conscience. What's Willow's excuse?

Aw, Spike. I think he genuinely wanted to make Dawn feel better and lessen her pain and he didn't have any problems with the kind of things that might result. Spike's amoral, so he doesn't care what's right or wrong. But
the fact that he did it out of conern for Dawn kind of made me feel for him.

I remember when my sister died I had this fantasy that my friend Susan would bring her up in her car and tell me it was all a bad dream and that it hadn't really happened. As I actually saw the paramedics cover my sister's body up with a sheet (she died in a boating accident) I was obviously was in serious denial. I can really understand Buffy and Dawn's shock and pain and why Buffy ran to the door, hpoing that maybe it wasn't true and she *would* get her mom back, as well as
Buffy's 'what do I do now' and 'I can't stop' feeling. This episode really brought a lot of stuff home for me.

I never was really a B/A fan, but I could have been. There's been a lot of discussion about Buffy being in an alternate reality or
the visit with Angel being a dream. I think the latter is definitely a possibility. But I also believe that Angel *would* come back if she needed him and that he and Buffy shared enough of that bond that she would turn to him.

Also, with the possibility of no more crossovers, this may be their only chance.

------------------
"I tried to be unlovable/why couldn't you do the same?"

-(jewel)

Oh darn, reading all these posts makes me only wish more and more that I could see this episode. Patience I must have.

Editing to add: Thanks Rayne!

---------------------------

Garfield, the happy dutchman

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Willow: maybe, maybe that way.
Tara: We looked that way. And this way, and the other way.
She’s not out here.
Willow: Where would you go? If you felt lost and alone? Where
Would you go?
Tara: To you.
Deleted scene from Blood Ties
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Quite a few little dialogue and scene trims, especially in the first act. The cemetery scene was cut quite short, it seems. Nothing W/T cut, though!

Doc's tail is described as reptillian - that kills the canine theory, I think. Doc's eyes are specifically described as 'evil'.

Dawn was apparently in a trance as Buffy found her - I dunno if that connects to the spell 'sacrifice' or not.

K..done now.

an interesting sidenote someone posted on another board, the song giles was listening to when he was drinking was the same one he and joyce listened to together in their "youth" in "band candy". how clever and sad.

i love the way willow and tara's characters are growing. willow is always yelling way out stuff about her pride . tara is more shy on that front but, of course more wise in the grieving areas.

i love love love this show!

tvsurfer, While we know that the writers don't use mythological deities in their literal sense - much dramatic license, etc. - I don't think the Flesh, bone, etc. comments in the spell necessarily portend Dawn being obligated to Osiris or Doc.

Osiris is, for all intents, the Egyptian Jesus, the son of god (RA) who is ressurected. Osiris and Anubis (Guardian of the Underworld and Osiris' son - or brother or uncle; it's all so incestuous) are the main deities invoked for mummification, etc. (tho the gods' moms are also promenently mentioned*G*).

In "real life" the spell would be a bastardization of raising a mummy. Of course, what Marti et al intended the spell to be, only time will tell.

The flesh, bones, yours, etc. is most likely in reference to the deceased (mummies originally, but in this case Joyce), and/or Osiris himself rising.

A direct quote from TEBOTD (from translator/transcriber E.A. Wallace Budge RE; The Legend of Osiris):

"Osiris was the god through whose sufferings and death the Egyptian hoped that his body might rise again in some transformed or glorified shape, and to him who had conquered death and had become the king of the other world the Egyptian appealed in prayer for eternal life through his victory and power. In every funeral inscription known to us, from the pyramid texts down to the roughly-written prayers upon coffins of the Roman period, what is done for Osiris is done also for the deceased, the state and condition of Osiris are the state and condition of the deceased; in a word, the deceased is identified with Osiris. If Osiris liveth forever, the deceased will live forever; if Osiris dieth, then will the deceased perish."

Whew! Mucho typing...OK, I'm not even gonna try to recount the Legend of Osiris, so y'all will just have to go read a copy of TEBOTD yourselves.*G*

On a completely silly and non-depressing note, one of the chapters in the Theban version of TEBOTD is called:

The Chapter of Repulsing The Eater of The Ass

wiccie - the Ever Ready Pagan.

Loved the ep, but I'm confused as to why Marti's script and the finished product that she directed are so different...Hmmmm.

[This message has been edited by wiccie (edited April 18, 2001).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Beautiful Tara's Girl:
What do you suppose the significance of "Peter and the Wolf" is to Dawn and/or Doc? I mean..I've heard OF the story...just not it itself. So if someone could give me a background, I'd be much obliged...

---

I think that's the story where he cries wolf, when he's really NOT being attacked by wolves so all the townspeople come out to help him only to find he was trickign them. Therefore, when he does get attacked by a wolf and cries for help, nobody believes him or comes to his aid. And so...he dies. Was this referred to somehow in the ep? The doc was really creepy...everythign he did left me with the sense that something still might happen involving that spell. Does anybody know what the name of that tune he was humming is or where youve heard it before?

And the shooting script was much fun to read. It really does make it clear that Willow was just trying to make Dawn feel better and hadn't thought out the consequences.

Some highlights:

Willow is beside herself, wanting to comfort her somehow. She moves to Dawn - rubs her back.

Willow clearly wants to make Dawn feel better.

Dawn crawls on to her bed. Lays down. Pulls a pillow close and hugs it. Willow is beside herself, wanting to comfort her somehow. She moves to Dawn - rubs her back.

Same theme here.

WILLOW
Oh… Dawn. This just sucks,
doesn't it? I wish I could help more.

getting the pattern?

Tara is working on her homework at Willow's desk - but rather than looking at her book, she's gazing out the window - lost in thought. Willow is laying across her bed with a journal, writing and thinking. Willow taps the journal with her pen, trying to remember something…

Tara thinking of her mom here? And sitting on the desk? Much better on the bed.

Tara leaves her desk and comes and sits next to Willow on the bed.

"sits?" hehe. I like it much better they shot it.

Now the magic book stuff:

Now Willow looks worried too. And regretful.

Willow had not thought things out.

Willow stands - fully freaked.
She is so impulsive.

Tara gives Willow a look - how would she know? Willow starts to ramble nervously-

Tara knows something is off with Willow. It's obvious.

Willow takes this in - dread rising.

WILLOW
We need to call Buffy. Now.

What Joel Grey/Doc is humming is from the Sergei Prokofiev (hope my spelling is OK*G*) musical adaptation of the traditional Russian fairy tale.

It is not "The Boy Who Cried Wolf", but then there are lots of European folk tales about wolves and children and death - whee. ;~)

Easy to get confused but "P&tW" is about a boy who travels to visit his grandfather, and must pass thru dangerous woods to do so. Grampa warns Peter to beware of the Wolf, but Peter ignores the danger until his friend is eaten by said wolf. Peter proves his courage (& manhood, etc.) by hunting and killing the wolf by himself for revenge. I think he actually cuts his girlfriend out of the wolf's stomach, which is parr for the course in fairy tales - again, I say "whee".

Peter is transformed from disobediant man-child to hero-adult.

Must protekt da willage

So, Doc humming this tune could be a way to emphasize that Dawn is messing with a danger that's possibly more than she can handle (a la Peter's grandpa warning him to beware of the dangers of the woods).

Yes, tonight wiccie is a font of antiquated information.*G*

Just passing through with one of my cranky rants...

Glad most of you enjoyed the shows last night.

To the few of you who don't see this season's been as strong as any year of Buffy: "The Body," "Fool For Love," "Blood Ties," "Family," etc., all I can say is... Go watch some reality programming. This stuff's wasted on you.

And anyone who doesn't know that Marti Noxon is one of the prime reasons for the greatness of this show, is a complete and utter moron. (Hear me, Doctor?!)

quote:

---

Originally posted by wiccie:
[B]For those who wondered about "Peter and the Wolf", music and story:

What Joel Grey/Doc is humming is from the Sergei Prokofiev (hope my spelling is OK*G*) musical adaptation of the traditional Russian fairy tale.

It is not "The Boy Who Cried Wolf", but then there are lots of European folk tales about wolves and children and death - whee. ;~)

Easy to get confused but "P&tW" is about a boy who travels to visit his grandfather, and must pass thru dangerous woods to do so. Grampa warns Peter to beware of the Wolf, but Peter ignores the danger until his friend is eaten by said wolf. Peter proves his courage (& manhood, etc.) by hunting and killing the wolf by himself for revenge. I think he actually cuts his girlfriend out of the wolf's stomach, which is parr for the course in fairy tales - again, I say "whee".

Peter is transformed from disobediant man-child to hero-adult.

So, Doc humming this tune could be a way to emphasize that Dawn is messing with a danger that's possibly more than she can handle (a la Peter's grandpa warning him to beware of the dangers of the woods).

B]

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sounds like the little red riding hood where a hunter kills the wolf and her grandma comes out of it's tummy (the one i grew up with had her locked in the closet).

not been spoiled by anything so i may just be really off the wall about this... but either way this version sounds more connective cause this may refer to Dawn's use of whatever power she may have, she's all energy after all, to defeat Glory. She proves her *courage*. after all she is bitty buffy.

quote:

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Originally posted by xita:

K a few things. I thought it was extremely odd that Willow and Tara did not tell Dawn about Tara's mom. Conclusion: Willow doesn't know. I may be completely wrong but it is just the feeling I got.

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Ah I would find it very odd indeed if Willow does *not* know about Tara's mother. After having been together for so long and being as close as they are, this is something she would simply *have* to know.
Besides in Family Willow says "That's so weird. Your *whole* family".
Now, I went like 'hang on, where is mom?' Even if Willow did not know already at that point and did not ask that question right then and there, she surely would have done so later in private.

Maybe they did not tell Dawn at that point to spare her further hurt. For Dawn would have realized that she had been insensitive towards Tara and would probably have felt a little worse than she already did.

Anyway I am glad the script makes clear that Tara does see Willow wasn't being truthful, and they did shoot those scenes much better, as you have pointed out. Fingerplaying not scripted huh? Heh heh.

Personally I don’t think Tara tried to resurrect her mother and I’m sure her mom had a talk with her just before she died, she knew Tara would be devastated by her death and warned her not to do that spell, that it would not bring her back the way she was now.

Oh, btw tvsurfer, it's Brian, not Bob

Anyway, I'm sure Tara knows how dangerous these spells are from personal experience. Remember, she wasn't that much older than Dawn when her mother died.

so what, maybe dawn as the innocent, thinking shes ready to go do battle with the big bad, but really just setting herself to be in need of rescuing?

also, i kind of took tara's silly "we're witches, we know stuff" line to be more like a really simple, almost condescending (without the bad intent) way of trying to get dawn off the topic. sort of a self-effacing way to get dawn to just give in to what they wanted and drop the idea of ressurection, because w and t know dawn is impressed by the fact that theyre witches. and it only backfired, because dawn was like, yeah you *are* witches... i didnt think tara meant to be all serious about that.

but i loved this ep. i was so seriously freaking out most of the time yelling at the tv to get dawn to not do the spell. *everyone* knows you cant raise normal people up from the dead! didnt she see pet cemetary?

michele

I don't want to get hurt for saying this, but I liked Tara's "We're witches, we know stuff." line. Now, before y'all jump up and start yelling, let me explain why. It made me giggle, and I think it was intended to be more of a "hee hee" moment, than a "We KNOW STUFF" moment. Albeit, I think there definitely should have been more of Tara's grief lessons and personal experience in there... For instance, when Dawn says "You don't know how it feels." I kind of wanted Tara to be like "Well, yeah, I kind of do." Not because Dawn was being insensitive, but I think it would have given Tara and Dawn a perspective on each other they haven't had before.

I loved the Spike/Xander fight. You could always tell Spike always did genuinely appreciate Joyce. I also think Spike helped Dawn BECAUSE he doesn't like seeing her hurt, either. Spike definitely loves all of the Summers women, just in different ways. I think he cares about Dawn like a big brother would.

I thought Joel Gray had a one guest appearance shot. A one time only deal. Has there been some sort of evidence that his character is reappearing? Eh... Plus, I don't want to see them make a big deal out of this spell, from Dawn's point of doing it... (Willow and Tara can argue, that's fine) but it would be so cheap to have Dawn's human form at risk due to a spell she did in grief. The girl already has enough problems: She's not human, She's a Key that a powerful God is searching for, and she just lost her mother. I don't want to see anything else happen to her.

I dunno, that's just the way I see it.

Buffy, Forever

Buffy and Angel, sittin' in a tree...

April 18, 2001

Series
Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Episode
Forever
Airing Date
2001-04-17

Buffy and Angel, sittin' in...er, under a tree. K-I-S-S-I-N-G. It's a special moment that marks the beginning of this ep, and it's actually handled in a way that's satisfying (ie, not a dream sequence) without taking over the entire hour.
This is due partially to the fine, mature handling of their relationship and partially to that teary, goth-erotic theme song. Damn, I love me some Buffy and Angel Love Theme. In retrospect, that's what was really missing from Buffy and Backstreet...when B&A smooch and their glorious theme music plays, all is right and sad and tragic in the Buffyverse, and we are reminded of just how hot Angel looks in a leather duster.

Anyway, after that swoony moment, we get good stuff aplenty this week, courtesy of The Noxonator. This is a perfect episode for her writing talents -- heavy emotional stuff coupled with little character things in which our Scoobies reflect on the ways of the world. Without losing their humor, natch.

The ep deals mostly with the aftermath of Joyce's death -- Buffy has to deal with all of the formalities, while Dawn is still in heavy denial. While Buff canoodles with Angel, Dawn asks Willow and Tara to help her with a spell to resurrect Ma Summers. Meanwhile, stupid BeN' Sync lets slip a crucial clue about The Key (that it is "an innocent"), prompting Glory to get all jiggy and mix up her slinky red stuff with an excellent zebra print dress.

The Glory stuff is fun (I love it when she goes marginally psycho and rips out her hair), but the real juice is in Dawn's dogged quest to bring back her mom. She manages to enlist the aid of Spike, whose motivations are hazy (though I suspect they're trying to hint that Spike's "human" weakness goes a bit deeper than mere Buffy lust), and he takes her to a crazy old coot played by the divine Joel Grey (and I'm going to smack the next person that refers to him as "Jennifer Grey's dad." The man won a freaking Oscar for Cabaret!). Joel is appropriately impish, creepy, and sports a tail, so you know he's gonna be key later. I like that!

Per Joel's advice, Dawn and Spike get all Jurassic Park, venturing into the lair of a pretty-good-lookin' Monster O' the Week (way better than that snake thing from earlier in the season, anyway -- Dino Boy has three heads!) in order to nab an essential spell ingredient. The scenes between James and Michelle have a nice, easy flow to 'em -- good Spike/Dawn buddy chemistry.

Red is soooo last episode...
The most effective sequence by far, though (and the scenes wherein The Noxonator really shines), is the ending passage, which contains a slight homage to the classic short story The Monkey's Paw. Dawn resurrects Joyce, Buffy breaks down, The Sisters Summers have some great, frantic moments together (Buff even slaps Dawnie...whoa, Dynasty!), and in a final, spine-tingling moment, Dawn breaks the spell just as Joyce is knockin' at the door.

It's good and creepy, but infused with rich, scary emotion. No mean feat, that. SMG and Michelle do fine work together -- it's nice to see how their dynamic has developed into a deeply felt sisterhood in less than a season. Hell, I'm starting to believe that Dawn's been around this whole time.

A couple of final things that bear noting: Anya's scene wherein she feels threatened by Dawn is hilarious (Anya has really become the master of quick, funny throwaways like that), but the Willow/Tara stuff is slightly off. I know that in the moment, Tara is mostly worried about Dawn, but it seems false that she could not know Willow's lying since Willow is quite possibly the WORST LIAR EVER. Seriously. Never become a master criminal, Will, you'll be wearing cement shoes faster than The Sopranos can rack up another boatload of Emmy nominations.

The last scene of the Tuesday's episode was both chilling and heart-wrenching. Seeing zombie-Joyce pass in front of the window made me jump. SMG and MT were great, they're really pulling out all the stops in their acting.

AH and AB have such great chemistry together - I thought the whole "sassy eggs" exchange was very touching.

My wife was appalled at what Willow did, showing the book to Dawn. I impute less sinister motives to Willow's character than my wife does, but this does point out the difference between Willow and Tara. I agree with Warduke and tvsurfer that Tara did not try to resurrect her mom. Magic for Willow seems to be just another way of exercising her intellect, not the life path Tara seems to take it as.

quote:

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Originally posted by tvsurfer:
IGN's review of Forever is up
they had problems with tara and dawns stuff too
___________
from IGN

Buffy, Forever

Buffy and Angel, sittin' in a tree...

April 18, 2001

Series
Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Episode
Forever
Airing Date
2001-04-17
(RESPECTFULLY SNIPPED)

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*ROTFLMAO* That is SO true. I know that I'm a hideous liar (due to my total lack of imagination) but Will was really pitiful. I laughed so hard and I started to feel bad b/c Will was so obviously uncomfortable with having to deceive Tara (for whatever reason). Really dead on analysis of the ep.

tvsurfer - I was summising that Tara had perhaps attempted, or at least, *wanted* to attempt a resurrection spell. I know that she is the 'head' of the craft whilst Willow is perhaps the 'heart' or 'hand' of the craft.

It was just a thought; when Dawn told Tara that she didn't know how it felt, it made me wonder if Tara *did* know, and if she'd ever tried to quell her grief by bringing her own mother back....something like that...

oooh-kay...this is one reviewer who sounds like he doesn't really know what the show's about. especially :

quote:

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Despite the much hyped ''Buffy''/ ''Angel'' crossover, the focus was on the heroine's little sister, Dawn (Michelle Trachtenberg) who actually isn't Buffy's sister, but -- ready for this? -- the incarnation of a mystical key, hidden in our universe by monks trying to keep it from its owner, a deranged, demigoddess diva named Glory (the flame haired Clare Kramer). I think.

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just wondering.
michele

One thing did set off bells for me in Tara's speech to dawn, about not using magic to alter life and death.

TARA
This is different. Magic can't be
used to alter the natural order of things-

DAWN
All you do is mess with the natural
order of things! You make things
float and disappear and, and-

TARA
(interrupting)
But we don't mess with life and death.

TARA
Because witches can't be allowed to
alter the fabric of life that way, for
selfish reasons. We'd manipulate the
world until it came unglued.

Tara was directing those comments to a girl whose very life was magicly created!! Dawn's very presence upsets the natural order of things! So how can dawn relate to a world where magic is suppose to have rules and boundries, when she herself is breaking the rules by her very existence ?

quote:

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Originally posted by rocketdyke:
any thoughts about why tara is wearing that bright red leather jacket at the funeral, when everyone else is so subdued and wearing browns and black? maybe it doesnt *mean* anything, but looking at the screen caps just now, it struck me as odd. wouldnt you think about wearing something so obviously red to a funeral and then think, well maybe not...

just wondering.
michele

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It's not red! It's burnt orange! Burnt orange, damn you! I have the same coat!

...and in my case, it's the only long coat I own...

...so there's an excuse right off the bat.

~BTG
(agog and aglow that she owns something that Tara does!)

I see the colors (white, red, black) as representing the life cycle. (This is pretty standard in traditional Wicca, btw, not that that has much to do with wicca in the Buffyverse, but those three colors represent the three faces of the goddess)

White- youth/the maiden (Buffy's childhood ending?)

Red- middle life/the mother. Nurturing. (Tara emotionally supporting Buffy, Dawn, Willow)

Black- Old age/the crone. Loss, grief (Dawn and Willow focusing on Joyce's death, dealing more directly with the grief. Besides them just being in the more traditional clothing for a western funeral.)

Like I said, I know I'm reading way too much into it, but hey, it worked for me, and it stopped me wondering why they were wearing those colors.

Or, they could just have been the only coats they had. (But in Tara's case, the shirt underneath the coat was red too)

It was worth the wait, too. Lots of good things. My head is spinning with new W/T thoughts - a lot of stuff about how the relationship works, or how it should work, or how I think it works, or something... anyway, they're still swirling around a bit. I'll probably write a bunch of them up in a separate post later.

More once I've had time to ponder for a bit...

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"To hope is to risk frustration. Therefore, make up your mind to risk frustration. Do not be one of those who, rather than risk failure, never attempts anything." - Thomas Merton

If Willow had read this book, and knowing how bright and perceptive Dawn is, was she in a way giving tacit approval to Dawn's plan.