Here's the place to discuss this week's episode of Family. Try to keep all your comments here until Wednesday afternoon or so.
Enjoy.
My initial comment below.
I'll start. It appears Buffy is not half demon. If Spike could tell that Tara was not half demon from attempting to hit her and he has had big pain when he's attempted to pummel Buffy -- appears Miss Buffy is all human. So much for that speculation on the Slayer origins.
Zelda you might be right about that.. hmm..
I loved the way they handled the fact that the scoobies haven't really had a chance to get to know Tara (much like the audience), couldn't even think of what to buy her. I think we are going to see that change. I also suspect Tara might be allowed to blossom now.
I hope she's included more also.
My favorite piece of dialogue was when the father talked about how she didn't even bother to hide her "toys" anymore. They thought that she might grow out of this witchy stuff if she went off to college. Now, that was a good use of witch/wicca in a metaphorical or perhaps even euphamistic way.
The attempted humorous approach used in the dialogue employed by Xander and Anya was the part I liked least. I hope we'll hear less of that usage in the future. I don't find it funny or offensive, just dumb.
YEs Zelda the latter reference is done for humor only, just to use it as a joke. On the other hand Tara's family, the whole thing was an allegory for being gay in a lot of ways. I know Joss doesn't want to preach or make it political. Instead he makes it subtle. I too loved the "toys" line. It reminds me how, the one thing I liked about that Deep Space Nine ep when Lenara and Dax kissed. The Trills were freaked and what was nice is that they made it about the taboo of them getting together in their new bodies. In that way, they make homosexuality accepted in their world but they still manage to show and expose the irrationality of homophobia.
One comment before I go back to homework:
It's too... pat. Too easy. I keep on waiting for the other shoe to drop. Did anyone see Tara (or as it were, not see her) when she cast the spell? Do we *know*? And what about her mother and grandmother? What happened that made her believe the "family lie"?
I'm happy, but I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. I'm betting Tara's past will continue to be explored. Hope so.
I am not andygirl. I am happy because the lie, the secret is out. Tara has released all she knows. Now she can go on a self discovery journey and find out who she is, or explore her past and see where she fits in. Good or bad, the secret is out. i hated that she was keeping something from Willow. Whatever happens now, we are sure that Tara's intentions are true. That her real self (honest nice Tara) is there and that's her core.
My hope though is that now that Tara doesn't have to be afraid of her power that it will develop naturally and that she'll find out that she can do as much as Willow. She does seem to have some extra special powers that she hasn't fully explored. Now she can.
Thismay seem trivial but whose room are Will and Tara sleeping in? I am assuming it's Tara's room. I can't tell because that part of the clip is really distorted.
-----
Zelda I still maintain that Tara is a lot more powerful that Willow.
But as you said she hasn't showen us her full potential yet.
And I to
beliebve she has some very special hidden talent. This is truly a turn
around episode.
------------------
Paula
--------
Amber FanGirl #1a
May the
Amber Force be with you.
I think it was Willow's room.
Do you guys remember that comment about the censorship concerning the
bed. Here's the Full
Interview
quote:
[on-screen same-sex kissing] i don't think so. we're actually not allowed to do much beause we're on at 8pm in america and there's rules, i guess, about certain elements. (jen: "but buffy is allowed to kiss riley...") yeah, exactly. no, it's ridiculous and hypocritical. we did a scene recently where we were both going to sleep or something and getting into bed and the network freaks out and they were like 'they're not going to be under the covers and da-da-da'. so, i mean, it's airing tuesday and it's going to to be interesting to see what actually got passed. we had to do a few different versions. we had to do one where we finished the scene before, like i was in bed before tara got under the sheets and i don't know what will pass. but, y'know, in that same episode you've got spike and harmony just going at it like rabbits, so it's very hypocritical.
Anyone up for seeing the uncesored version???? And don't you love that line, or something?
I suspect that the version that airs is in fact the uncensored version. Aly said they had to do a few different versions, but considering what the blipvert mpeg shows, Joss seems to have won that particular battle.
-len
Who knows? Maybe there was an "or something" version that was even better.
HANDS
Perhaps Dawn's gratuitous "alcohol is for losers" comment during the party scene was Joss's trade-off for getting the W/T snugglies in. Hey, it's a thought. And if that's what worked, I'm all for it.
So, who is going to be the first to identify the song at the end -- "I can't take my eyes off of you?" Joss is a big ole sap. No doubt of that now.
Joss is such a sap. I love him. I wanna marry him. Oh he's married. Too bad! Let's start a joss cult
By a curious coincidence I was listening to an old Queen tape while reading "Family" spoilers and the song "I Want to Break Free" started up. And I couldn't help thinking how much the first two verses seemed to apply to Tara in this ep.
I want to break free
I want to break free
I want to break free from your lies
You're so self satisfied I don't need you
I've got to break free
God knows, God knows I want to break free.
I've fallen in love
I've fallen in love for the first time
And
this time I know it's for real
I've fallen in love, yeah
God knows,
God knows I've fallen in love.
[This message has been edited by LordBowler (edited 11-07-2000).]
I'll answer my own question about who is singing the song at the end. Got it from the WB and includes a nice picture of the girls.
On the Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode "Family" Willow and Tara have a sweet, romantic dance to I Can't Take My Eyes Off You by Melanie Doane. This Canadian singer/songwriter serves up an enchanting line-up on her album Adam's Rib. Sounding at times like Sarah McLachlan, Melanie Doane weaves ethereal harmonies on songs like Sweet Sorrow and asserts her authority in the title track, Adam's Rib. The album mixes classic sounds with just the right amount of studio manipulation and a Celtic feel to create an interesting new twist.
Melanie Doane grew up in a musical family in Nova Scotia. She
began playing the violin at age 3 and from there went on to learn a number
of different instruments including piano, ukulele and stand-up bass. She
went to college to study voice, but decided to leave school to pursue
theater. Eventually she started to write her own music and found her
calling. After releasing a commercially disappointing indie album, Doane
packed her things and moved to L.A. where she recorded Adam's Rib. The
album was a great commercial success in Canada, and won her a Juno Award
(the Canadian equivalent of the Grammys) for Best New Artist.
Excuse me while I scream for a moment...
OH MY GOD! I LOVED THAT EPISODE!!!!!! I WANT WILLOW AND/OR TARA!!!!!!!
Ok, screaming over. On a calmer note...
I LOVED IT!
Wait, that wasn't calmer. Damn. Oh well, I don't have any calm left in me! Watching them just makes me so happy and smilie and joyful and such nonsense! Why can't I have a relationship like theirs? I would KILL for that! I just LOVE them! Ok, well, I guess I don't actually have anything of use to say. But my god I just love them to death!
-caitlin
All I can sawis *awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww*
and AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
that was the best episode ever.. pouty willow.. upportive willow.. the gang standing up for our Tara and the look on her face when Buffy did that... Ohmyohmyohmyohmyohmy!
Can those two GET any more adorable?
Andloving Alyson's hair tonight, she and Amber both looked great!
------------------
Cece0211
http://dawna.itgo.com/
I've
learned that you cannot make someone love you.
All you can do is stalk
them and hope they panic and give in.
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...oh wow...
that was just about the cutest thing i've ever seen...
that last scene was just...wow...
i gotta say, unspoiled is the best way to go...
i'm gonna have to let this one sink in a bit more before saying anything about it that isn't an exclamation of pure joy...
they are SO CUTE!!!!!
awwwwwwwwwww...
april
in a little puddle on the floor
Usually I don't post my thoughts on an ep until I've watched it a couple of times, but of course this one is an exception and I just gotta say THANX JOSS for getting all sappy and emotional - it's a good way to get every now and then.
WELCOME BACK MS KITTY FANTASTICO! Once again, she proves to be a more interesting character than Riley. And she ushered in a bed scene that I was so incredibly surprised by. As every second went by of them getting under the sheets and moving closer I became more and more amazed and ecstatic. Mail will be sent.
A few random thoughts:
1.) Ben has a hairless chest and thus looks
like a human vienna sausage; why do Buffy men have no chest hair? Small
beef.
2.) Speaking of beef, I was naughtily excited by the site of
Xander and Riley getting a little wrestling action on in Buffy's room.
Does this make me a bad person?
3.) Speaking of Buffy's
room - what the Hell? I thought she already was living at home! We saw her
in a dorm room once this season and I assumed it was Riley's.
4.) So
many great moments with the gang in this ep. Family indeed (the family
that slays together stays together). Suave Xander is kicking my ass with
the way he fits in more with the gang this season
5.) I
love Dawn. I love the way that Buffy has accepted her a little more
now.
6.) The Spike copulation scene was so brilliantly naughty. Sex
works better on the show when it's clever like this.
7.) Invisible
demons were very scary - that was really a gripping scene for me. Almost
too scary, because it made it slightly unbelievable that they would
protect Tara after putting them through that.
8.) The dance. The
floating. The choking up. The watering eyes. The sight of me alone in my
apartment giving the tv a 2 minute standing ovation.
I agree with a lot of folx who say this ep was a little slow and maybe too syrupy sweet, but I think it more than compensated with the quality 'family' moments and the genuine romance of w/t.
[This message has been edited by darvangi (edited 11-08-2000).]
I am so so glad I stayed spoiler free for this episode.
Kaboomie's comments Transferred from another thread:
**I'm not going to reiterate the storyline but I do think that despite
being Joss produced, the show was a bit slow. I think he wanted Tara's
"coming out" to be perfect which I think it was It has to be
the sweetest thing I've seen on TV that hasn't given me cavities. Here's a
question: Does anyone feel like it left more questions that it answered?
The Riley subplot was so toss away, did we need it? The demon subplot was
okay. What *did* happen to Tara's mom? Was she a witch? Did Tara see her
mom as a demon if her mom turned into one when she hit 20? Where is her
mom now? I think there's a good chance that Spike could of faked the head
pain just because he can be an arse sometimes. There are a few people in
the Usenet Buffy NG saying: That's it? And I also see many people taking
everything at face value, but I get a really weird feeling that there is
more to Tara and her storyline. Anyone have that nagging feeling? Or did
Joss do that on purpose?
Well, that said, this was a brilliant if groundbreaking bit of television.
kaboomie
[This message has been edited by xita (edited 11-07-2000).]
I also had a 'That's IT?!?' reaction. Sorry. Kinda anti-climactic.
Not to say there wasn't a lot we could talk on about for the next 15 months...
a few thots:
Loved it! put a big smile on my face.bed scene
did ya notice riley wasnt in the family scene? was that on purpose? i really hope he joins the army and leaves!
He's already in the army! And he hasn't left for them yet...wait I think he resigned. Dang.
Well, I'm still in my watching for watching's sake mode here. I thoroughly enjoyed this ep from beginning to end. I knew it was going to be a great one when it started with little Miss Kitty Fantastico playing then sequed to our girls cuddling in bed.
And what about that little scene with Spike and Harmony having sex.
Whoops!
The demons at the end were rather freaky as I guess demons should be. I especially got the chills when the one was sniffing around little Dawn. And I could have done without that tongue thing.
LOVED the whole scene of the party. Gorgeous song and the floating thing....LOVED IT! Soooo sweet.
Favorite quote of the night comes from Giles to Buffy and Xander.
"You're in a magic shop and you can't think what Tara would like. I
believe you're both profoundly stupid." I laughed so hard at that!!
Okay. Gotta watch Angel now.
Stella
[This message has been edited by Stella by Starlight (edited 11-08-2000).]
I knew everything, hell i'd even half seen it, yet it was soo moving. I am still reacting to the sheer beauty of it. No the floating wasn't cheesy. The song is great, I already have the mp3. And the acting, Amber was fantastic today, of course Aly always is. We have lived off crumbs my friends. Tonight there was so much, I don't even know how many times I will have to watch it to get it all. Wow. The best part, well aside from the dance, was the scoobies standing up for Tara. I was just ready to break down. I have to wait for angel to be over to watch it again.
Awwwwww. ARRRGHHH! YAY! Awwwwww.
I loved the ep, but my mother dropped by 15 minutes into it causing me
to miss 15 min. This means I have to watch it again on Saturday (forgot to
record it). Anyway, I LOVED the first and last scenes, they made it so
romantic .
Joss is a mushball, but he's our
mushball.
Also, Spike shows once again he's the master of the
backhanded compliment. And MKF's back! Gotta go, it's hard to reach the
keyboard when your floating on the ceiling.
Favourite line was Giles telling Xander and Buffy, they were stupid because they couldn't figure out what Tara might like for a present when they were sitting in a magic shop. (can't remember exactly how it went)
[This message has been edited by Thassa (edited 11-08-2000).]
quote:
Originally posted by mucifer:
did ya notice riley wasnt in the family scene? was that on purpose?
Didn't notice.. but, I hope so. Riley seems just a little more out of place each ep. The detour to the bar seemed almost like a scene out of some other show.
i was so spoiled for this episode, but i still got teary at the end. omg it was amazing! i loved the ending, they showed such tenderness and love for each other. Im having a hard time breathing!
You are right Xita, this was a long time coming - and what a wonderful way for it to come to us!
gotta say that was an alltime fav episode! As for the question posted "what about tara's mum" well, one could see that if the family knew how to keep the demon side "under control", then tara may never have seen her mum as a demon, but just knew it was hidden there. And if mumsie decided it was all BS - she could have :
- escaped w/ her very life, and may show up sometime later and regret having abandoned her daughter
or
Dear ol Dad bumped off mumsie for getting too uppity, and told
tara mum went all demon and had to be destroyed.
meanwhile, over to the bronze to see what's the haps.
This was one of the sweetest and most endearing episodes ever of Buffy. I love the mood that Tara and Willow put me in, a mood of happiness that knows no bounds. Will never be able to get the dance out of my head and the whole gang proclaiming they are family to Tara's messed up family. Been posting at the bronze this evening and most all comments have been good, I am now overjoyed! It's all coming into focus!
You all are so lucky you got to watch the show tonight! I have to wait til tomorrow because Angel is shown today but BUFFY is on Wednesdays at 5pm.
#)
After watching the episode again something caught my attention. Mr. Maclay said that Tara's family had taken care of her for 18 years, but its her 20 birthday.
Is that a clue? what about that missing year. Or is it just the year she was in Sunnydale?
Wow..
Even if a I am a bit of a partisan, tonights ep was a great one. It worked on all the traditional buffy Levels.
1)Peronal-Tara's struggle to not define her self as evil, but to make her own way in life.
2)Metaphor- The Witchcraft=Feminism metaphor is complete
3)Scoobies as Family
4)Drmatic- They kept us guessing to the end
5)Romantic- Not just the snuggles at the beginning, but the last sequence, the last frame, not since the last season of the Buffy firsdt season Ep Angel have we seen such a dramatic display of Love as magic itself.
6)Spike -OK, I'm just throwing this in.
Best ep of the Season.
Most romantic Ep since S2 Buffy
When!
And I remained spoiler free!!! I only read thw last line of Xita post, with her praising Joss, to know how to brace myself..
dr lloyd
Thank you everyone for rationalizing some of the major plotholes as in:
What happened to Mumsie McLay?
How could someone as connected to magic like Tara not know that she wasn't a demon? Couldn't she do a demon location spell type thingy on herself?
How could Tara NOT know that casting a blinding spell on the Slayer in a town like Sunnydale would be a bad idea like homicide is a bad idea...
There were LOL parts for me like when Tara's father comes in all
blustery and says:
Demon. The women in our family have demon in them.
[cue music, cue crying, raise all eyebrows, someone drop something,
please!]
Anyway, it doesn't matter. Now I'm going to do an interesting comparison of the W/T and W/O relationships. Those W/O fans on this board - a forewarning that this is about how much better W/T are than W/O so go away if this makes you upset.
The really, really great thing about this episode was Willow's
unwavering support and love for her girlfriend, even when she could have
easily ditched her. I think what Joss was trying to say about Love (the
big 'L' kind, not the little 'l' kind) is that love has to be
unconditional, and Willow loves Tara very, very, very, very
unconditionally. It's interesting because all along Tara has been the
model girlfriend - she's supportive of Willow, shares her interests, would
obviously sacrifice herself at the drop of a hat - a great girlfriend, and
easy to like. But Tara goes and does a couple of bad, no good things in
this ep:
1)When Tara introduces her family to the Scoobies at the Magic
Box, she only introduces Giles, and you can see Willow looking kind of
hurt but fighting it off bravely.
2)The scene when Willow wants Tara
to come hang out with the Scoobies and Tara says 'It's not always about
your friends' - yowch! And Willow's hurt face - that was tough scene,
because it's true, it's not always about Willow's freakin' friends ya
know? Tara's got needs! The chick has her own f*****g problems. But then
poor Willow's face, how she was really trying to fight off her hurt and
pretty much brushing off the hurt again- but this time she's having a
little more difficulty hiding it. Let me just say Willow hurt face is an
exceptionally difficult thing. When she cries, you cry.
3) Of course
the climactic ending, with Willow hurt face and the 'I trusted you more
than anyone in my life. Was all that just a lie?' Anyone hear echoes of
W/O in here? Like, I dunno- Willow finding her boyfriend with another gal?
Betrayal is a huge issue for Willow and her ready defense of Tara
immediately after finding out that she's been lied to (Ok, I'm visualizing
Willow hurt face again), wow, Willow LOVES Tara. In that big heart in the
sky, unconditional way - that no matter what Tara's done or what Tara is,
Willow loves her without reservation. This kind of unconditionality was
not what W/O had, because eventhough Oz ostensibly did not intend to sleep
with Veruca, Willow was still pretty pissed. Here Tara does something
similar in the betrayal of trust arena, yet Willow is able to fight it
off. It shows off Willow's new maturity and her unconditional love for
Tara.
This was great! For a long time it could be assumed that one of
the great things about Tara was that she was just this big slobbery puppy
full of unconditional love / hero worship for Willow. It's easy to be in a
relationship with someone who worships you. But what about the bad times?
When you're a big heaving glob of goo, all snotty and hiccup-y from crying
so much, but your partner looks at you as if you're the most beautiful
person on earth - well that's when you know. That's the sign of a lasting
relationship, that's the sign of a real partnership....sigh. BWWAAAAAH!
....and was I the only one who got a rise out of Willow raising her
voice? [To Tara's father: I KNOW THAT!] I REALLY WANNA ep where Willow
knocks some folks about while defending Tara. Or Tara raises her voice and
knocks some folks about.
[This message has been edited by Spring (edited 11-08-2000).]
AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
That was just the most beautiful most wonderful episode to ever grace
the television airwaves. Ever!! How I so love Joss for creating and
developing and nurturing the goodness that is Willow and Tara. He is a
beautiful wonderful person, and Amber and Aly are also beautiful wonderful
people for doing such a beautiful wonderful job portraying their
characters and their emotions in such a perfect way. It's just beautiful.
And wonderful!!
And now I'll move past the gushing for a few actual plot related comments about the ep (sorry for the enthusiasm, I was completely unspoiled and am just blown away by everything that was shown.....so much more than I ever really hoped for....it's all a wee bit overwhelming, in a really good way....)
1. The Tara's Mom question -- Am I the only one thinking that Tara's mom possibly died when she was 20 (maybe even from something magic related, like a spell gone awry), and so her family created a story about how she turned "demony" to keep Tara away from the evil influences of magic (especially if Tara had shown a natural affinity for magic at an early age...) It just doesn't make any sense to me for Tara to have grown up knowing her mother and still believing her mother was demon, when that was clearly the case. I guess a mental institution of some kind also is a possiblity, that her family could have commited her mother (although they seem more like the locking up in the attic types...) and she died in there, once again not allowing Tara much contact with her. As for her grandmother, perhaps that was part of the legend her family made up. Maybe the Doll's Eye crystal was really her mothers, I mean, she didn't seem all that sure where it came from. Her family could have made up a magical grandmother to reinforce in Tara the evilness of magic and make Tara so afraid she would be dependent on them to help her.
2. Concerning the Spike/Harmony sex scene. My first reaction was like "Good grief, that can show THAT but they can't even show Willow & Tara KISSING!! That's RIDICULOUS!!!!" But I think that was the reaction Joss was going for. It seems a very intentional comparison....not only to illustrate the hypocisy of the network and its censorship, but ALSO to show how superior romance and sweetness can be to graphic sex. And I agree. I'll take floating dancing any day over the kind of stuff they've shown with Spike/Harm and even Buffy/Riley.
3. I too love how the whole gang rallied around Tara, espeically since they were explaining how they didn't know her so well in the first part of the episode (I really loved that scene between Buffy and Xander...and hasn't Xander gotten all studly lately....very nice!! Much better than last season...) I think they would have been justified in feeling much more betrayed by her, and being much more angry. At first I wondered if it was a little "too" easy, if they came around a little too quickly, but I think her family being there for them to see for themselves what she had to deal with really helped. If they had not been there and were not being so stupid, they may not have been so sympathetic to Tara. But I also think part of the reason they rallied so hard was for Willow. I think at the end they finally really saw how much Tara means to Willow, how much Tara loves Willow, and we all know how much they love Willow, so I think part of what they did was out of the love they have for Willow, making what's important to her important to them.
4. The Dance. There aren't enough words to descirbe how beautiful that scene was. The acting, the writing, all superb. Amber and Aly's best acting moment together as a couple. One of the most romantic moments on the show, ever. I'm soooooo glad Joss seems to love W/T as much as we do. He seems really proud (and protective) of this relationship. Yay for Joss!!! I was nervous when the ep began, being upspoiled, I thought things could go very badly, but he didn't make us suffer TOO much (although at the halfway point of the show I was pretty antsy) and has once again beautifully demostrated his commitment to this relationship.
Whew. I think that's it for now. I shall be basking in a happy post-Family glow all day. Oh, but I can't leave without the obligatory AMBER IS A HOTTIE!!!
There, I feel better.
Cylinda
Ok, some more thoughts. I really loved the way the scooby gang stood up for Tara. I also loved the Buffy/Tara interaction (such as it were). I think it's the first time characters have actually talked to her. Buffy in just looking at her, I mean she's the central character, this is a good thing. Anya and Tara could be good friends, I like that idea. The last scene, we see Tara hanging out with different people without Willow, I am just so excited. Then at the end of the silent montage, Buffy looks over her family (notice no Riley) and I feel like she's the mother hen! That's reflected in the fact that she's the first one to stand up for Tara. I am loving this new Buffy. Instead of the selfish, self serving Buffy, we get the protective caretaker. I am for it.
Willow/Tara. There has been a lot more going on than we have been led
to believe. Somebody expressed on chat last night how weird it was that
Buffy knew Mr. Maclay's name. I thought, just because we didn't know it,
doesn't mean Willow didn't. In fact, it would be really weird if she
didn't. She knew her age, she knew she was turning 20. We didn't, for all
we knew, she was eternal. So, I think the biggest thing Tara kept from
Willow was her family. I don't find that unusual as many people refuse to
talk about their family.
Last note, there was so much here to love.
I'll mention a small thing. I loved the way Willow thought it was Tara at
the magic shop when she heard the monster's noise outside. Sweet.
When Buffy and Xander had that extended conversation about Tara - I was so happy steam was coming out of my ears. But I don't know about that new improved non-selfish Buffy. When she made that remark about a nice sweater she saw at Bloomingdale's but wanted it for herself, I was like - yeah, what else is new Buff? Or when she said all the present buying thoughts was making her head hurt- as if not thinking about herself for once was stretching her poor brain all out of shape.
One day we might even get Buffy and Tara talking to each other!
As a side note, it's really funny how the commercials made a funny scene look completely evil and shocking. When Tara makes that stupid joke, everyone is taken aback by its lameness, while the commercial makes it look as if Tara has just done something horrifically evil.
O.K. I read the spoilers, viewed the quick videos and read the closed captioning, but I was still completely blown away by this episode.
A few random thoughts/questions.
Has Miss Kitty been recast? It seems like there's a lot more white on her than last season. Do markings on cats change as they get older?
Don't you wish that when they first met Tara's Father, Tara had introduced Willow as her girlfriend? I'm sure it would have been a funny heart attack. (Well I would have enjoyed it anyway.)
Speaking of Tara's dad didn't that prominent brow make him look vaguely cro-magnon? I guess Tara takes after her mother. And hopefully her real father will turn out to be the mailman.
And speaking of Tara's mother, like everyone, else I can't help noticing there are alot of unanswer questions about her. Is she alive? Dead? Shacked up in Battle Creek, Michigan with her own gay lover? Inquiring mind want to know.
I really like how we are finally getting to see more of how Tara relates to the other Scoobies. Hopefully now we'll get to see more of her with the rest of the gang sans Willow.
Hey WB. I've set you a dollar in the mail. Go buy yourself a clue. No one is going to get anymore in a twist about Willow and Tara if you let them kiss, so let them.
Don't you think its about time for Willow and Tara to move in together? Maybe they can get Buffy's old room after all who doesn't love bawdy french farce?
I'm actually really glad that the ep didn't really deal with Tara's family's reaction to Willow as her girlfriend. I mean, we still get the wicca/magic as homosexuality thing, but I'm glad that the focus was on the pre-existing bad relationship Tara had with her family, rather than a current freakout over Willow.
In my mind, it turns any possible message from "Tara's family disapproves of W/T, so they're bad." to "Tara's family wants to control Tara and all the other women in the family forever, and not let Tara live the life she wants to live."
I think the latter take gets the point across in a more subtle way.
(Though I was quite happy with the look Willow gave the father towards the end when he tried to interrupt Willow asking Tara what she wanted to do. That man was dead on the floor if looks could kill. I would really not ever want to try to hurt Tara in Willow's presence at this point. Nope. Oh, and how cute could it have been if Willow could have kissed Tara's little hurtey nose to make it better? Yes, this ep has reduced me to utter sappiness)
And yes, who's left to be bothered by a kiss at this point?
I don't do sigs really. But the "All I know is she likes Willow...and she already has one of those." from Xander was priceless. I'd have that as a sig. If I did sigs. 'cos it was cute. I'll stop now.
-len
"All I know is she likes Willow...and she already has one of those."
-Xander, Family
(oh, just this once)
Well, well, well.
We finally learn Tara's secret, and it ain't so bad. I, for one, am pleased, and I'll tell you why.[1]
Some back story: Remember when Riley was first introduced as a commando
type? I was ecstatic. Riley and the Initiative represented something good.
They were just ordinary people (commando's yes; but just people) fighting
demons and monters. It was a stark contrast to the scoobies, where Xander
is constantly getting his nose tweaked about his normal-ness (ie, no
superpowers).
I felt betrayed by the Intiative storyline, because they
made Riley a superguy. He lost something there, and he hasn't recovered it
by losing those powers. I still don't forgive TPTB for once again making
"normal" people unable to do good. [2]
Back to Tara, though. We always knew Tara was special, and not just because she had excellent taste in women. Theories flew fast and furious about her; about her background, about her motivations, about her very nature.
And what, ultimately, is Tara? She is a girl. She's got a messed up home life, she's got self-esteem issues, and her sense of humor- well, let's not go there. I'm glad Tara isn't a demon, or a goddess, or a manifestation of the slayer spirit to guide Buffy, or an agent of good sent to guard Dawn, or Willow, or anything like that. She's just some girl who got swept up in something.
I can't help but feel that what was lost with Riley, was regained with Tara.[3] There was every opportunity to make her something more than human, and TPTB didn't. She is a witch, yes; but not a super-powered one.
And what's her motivation? She likes doing spells with Willow. No evil, no mission, just human love.
I like that.
--
Rev.Jon@han
[1] yeah, it'd be a cold day in heck when I don't.
[2] Xander tries,
he really does. But time and time again, we have seen him knocked aout
because of his inability to play with the big boys. This may just be an
element of his character, (re "Restless"), but he is still the only
non-powered scoobie or evil-fighter.
[3] Milton reference!
They are so mad for each other - Willow has become completely blind to the fact that Tara's jokes aren't exactly stellar. They've reached the Honey-you-look-SOO-sexy-in-those-plaid-pants-and-polka-dot-shirt stage.
I wasn't sure if I should weigh in on this ep. Nothing i can say can match the eloquence of anything all of you have posted so far. But...I'll give it a shot. First this is one of the sweetest, most romantic Buffy eps ever,period. That first scene that focused on the domesticity of their relationship foreshadowed the overall maturity Willow displayed throughout the entire ep. Tara spent the better part of the ep reacting out of fear, fear of family, fear of losing Willow, and fear of not really knowing her true self. This ep not only showed a part of who Tara is but also who Willow has become. Willow not making a deal of Tara not introducing her properly to her family, recognizing that what Tara really needed was space to deal and didn't overreact to Tara's crankiness, and at the magic shop, not allowing the situation to degenerate and not allowing Tara to just walk away from her. And that smile of utter pride as her friends stepped up to the plate for Tara. And I will never forget Amber's display of awe and joy as each of the scoobies but especially Buffy did that. And that final scene with the lines that could have been marriage vows in a real sense and the dance. What does the future hold for Tara in Joss' universe? i do think there's plenty something left there to explore about Tara's mother.
An intense and beautiful episode; I'm glad I was completely unspoiled!
Filled with such complexities of love ... Obviously, a lot shown between W and T ... But also, the care that people extend to those loved by those they love; as cparga (and maybe others!) has already pointed out, part of the gang's willingness to protect Tara stems from the fierce protectiveness they have for Willow. We also saw the touching care that Buffy now shows to one she loves (Dawn) but knows isn't technically her "real" family, as well as a clear contrast between Buffy's "real" dad and her continuing profound rel'ship with Giles.
Anyway, back to Tara, I found it really touching that in the same episode where Xander and Buffy admit that they don't really *know* Tara (also a great scene – funny as well as poignant), and just after they are victims of a spell she cast, they nevertheless come to her defence when she needs them most. The incipient friendship they offer to Tara is one where you're allowed to make mistakes, even life-threatening ones! (After all, Willow's been responsible for some hairy situations with spells going awry too, as she herself acknowledges.) So after so little interaction shown between T and the non-W Scoobies, those various scenes of T's b'day where she's hanging out with them at various time was completely heartwarming; those times, after all, are the glue of deep and abiding friendships.
On top of all this, we got so many memorable scenes where the love between T and W was achingly evident. Given the reported brouhaha over the short hug in that episode a couple of weeks ago, I was completely unprepared for the bed-snuggling scene and, of course, the final dance scene. But there were other wonderful scenes as well, like, as already mentioned, W thinking it ws T knocking on the door when the demons came, and calling her name with anticipation; the hurt that W tried to hide when T declined to go with her, the scene between W and T after Spike hits T ....
So much in one episode ... wow.
Okay, my turn to talk about the episode. Many more happy thoughts than there are about the election.
While I thought the episode was fantastic, it didn't give me the same emotional punch that New Moon Rising did. I'll admit it - this episode deserved to be watched unspoiled (although if I had watched it unspoiled I might have broken my TV by throwing things at it before it was revealed that Tara's not a demon). I can watch NMR over and over again, and still get the same emotional kapowee at seeing Willow come out to Buffy or Willow and Oz in the van or Willow bringing the extra-flamey candle to Tara's room. None of the scenes in Family had that same amount of impact.
I realize this is like saying, "Gee, other symphonies just don't
compare to Beethoven's Ninth," but there you are. And the scenes in Family
may grow on me with repeated viewing - I'm certainly willing to test that
theory out.
Having said all that, I will now proceed to rave and glow over the many really good things in Family. Such as:
-- The return of MKF! (And I suspect there are actually several Miss Kitties Fantastico available for a shoot, which is why her markings appear to shift around.)
-- Tara's bedtime story!
-- Tara's look of sheer bliss when she climbs into bed with Willow.
-- Joss making a point of having both B/R and X/A kiss in a drawn-out over-the-top fashion. Oh no, he doesn't have a problem with the WB's rules, no sirree...
-- Amber Benson's performance. She showed more Tara-layers in one night
than she got to show all last season, and she was brilliant at it. I loved
the way Tara went straight back into her old stuttering-mode the second
her family showed up. I can relate.
-- The one good thing about being spoiled for this episode is that I could pay attention to the way Joss was manipulating the audience without being taken in by his manipulations. He made a very convincing case for Tara being a demon right up to the moment Spike hit her. I'm sure it had a lot of people suckered.
-- Joss's return to his theme that real-life terrors are worse than anything monsters can throw at you.
-- The party montage. It was fun to see both Willow and Tara having fun as part of the gang as a whole, and not just by themselves.
-- The fact that Willow took Tara onto the dance floor as if it was the most natural thing in the world for her to do, and nobody did anything to make them feel otherwise.
-- The conversation on the dance floor. That's the one that has the
best chance of growing on me with time.
Uhhh... I seem to be going on a bit longer than I expected... I'll
leave off here for now.
and one more thought from such a beautiful episode...
the look willow gives tara when she comes to get her for the dance? i melted. sigh....
Um first off I agree with you all great ep, I jumped up and down when we found out that Tara wasn't a demon. But I have a question. IN the norm homosexuals are betrayed as male and female still. You know like with guys some guy is all feminine and one is all male-ey. However with girls its always been one is butch bla bla bla, well now a days both partners are the same or just themselves not trying to assume a male or a female role. But my question based on what we saw would you say that Will is the guy, cause
A: In the bed Tara layed in Will
B: The dance Tara had her arms around Will and Will on Tara's hips.
Don't mean to offend but just wondering if this stereotype exists in the W/T relationship.
I think these are outdated stereotypes. Does Buffy throwing down Riley and climbing on top of him and beating him up (in the sense that she is more powerful than him)make him the "female" of their relationship. People change roles all the time. Spice of life...not a box to be trapped in.
JMHO.
Seaweed
[This message has been edited by Seaweed (edited 11-08-2000).]
Seaweed, is that a trick question about Buffy and Riley???
I thought of a couple more great things about Family that I left off my earlier list.
-- Anya being tickled by the fact that she's "a useful member of society" and raising her hand like that to ask Mr. Maclay what kind of demon Tara was. Did you notice, though, that in a sense Anya still thinks of herself as a demon? I wonder if that's going to come back...
-- Willow telling Tara that she's never trusted anyone more than she
trusts her. That was wonderful. (Take that, W/O 'shippers! ) And true, too... Willow has had that kind of deep trust for Tara
ever since Who Are You.
I'm sure there are more, but I'll leave off again here..
Beyond the Pain ++
Some folks from willtara emailed me offlist about this and/or asked me to post it here, so...here we go...
I was thoroughly pleased with "Family," and, as always, proud of
and
impressed by Amber, Alyson and Joss.
Making Tara human was a risky move because nowadays, viewers are so
ready to
pronounce any new character as evil, demonic, ready to slip up
or ready to
turn evil.
In the same vein, many people are suddenly used to the dynamic forces
of the
Slayerettes: Buffy with her Slayer strength, Willow being a
witch, Giles
being a magic user in the past, Anya being an ex-demon,
Riley being
Inititative power boy in the past, Spike being a vampire:
with Xander being
the only one who is just simply (and wonderfully)
Xander. It's funny to see
such reactions because initially, in Season 3
(which included Oz being a
werewolf and Angel being a vampire) people
were concerned that the group was
TOO supernatural. Think of what
Cordelia confronted Xander with in "The
Zeppo" about that.
"Family" was amazing. There is no doubt about it.
For those naysayers who think it was "lame" or "stupid" that
the
demon-legend that they were passing down in the Maclay Family
turned out to
be a hoax and was all a big tease, I say this:
What we got from this was another reason to admire Tara. She was in
a
mentally abusive environment growing up, frightened of what she was
to
become and apparently loving and following her father out of fear
and
command. Somehow, she found the strength to escape the abuse and
run, run
like she'd never run before. Run to college where she could be
educated, to
a group where she could be accepted, to a place where she
could study her
hobbies and live her life as she wished. She found
herself and was free
from the pain and torment that she must have
experienced on a daily basis
back home.
We should all be so lucky. So fortunate. So strong.
If you are still hung up on the demon-legend of the Maclays, think of
it
this way: Picture a young girl (or boy for that matter) being told
each and
every day that she (or he) is stupid. Worthless. Evil. Will be
evil someday.
Good for nothing. Anything along these lines. Then
picture that person able
to GET OUT OF THERE. For those viewers who
were abused, mentally or
physically, or know someone who was, they know
this takes guts. It's a very
scary position to be in. Not everyone is
able to escape...
Have I changed your mind now? Do you see what I see in Tara? Now, how
can
you not admire her for her strength, her wisdom, her choices? This
is yet
another way that perhaps Joss and Co will reach some fans out
there and help
them overcome issues that are happening now, or to make
peace with something
that happened in their past.
I applaud Tara for her strength, her wisdom, her choices.
I applaud Willow for letting Tara make her choice and helping her raise
her
voice.
I applaud Buffy and the others who stood up for Tara. I am very pleased
they
have all made this step towards embracing her into the Scooby
Gang.
Now Tara fits into the group moreso than ever. A human, innocent,
helping
fight the forces of darkness out of the goodness of her own
heart. A
character with knowledge, with specialities, with a past, a
present and a
future.
Deny her no longer.
When Tara first appeared, we were reminded of first season Willow. Tara
has
been able to be a positive force and guide for Willow.
Now when you look at Tara, I hope you are reminded a little of
yourself. You
must love yourself before anyone else can love you back.
Don't be afraid of
what you are. Be proud of it.
Little Willow
------------------
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What an emotional rollercoaster ride. I would have to rank "Family" right up there with "Hush" as possibly the best episode ever.
Amber gave us a brilliant performance last night. The range of emotions she went through in this episode is truly a testament to her acting abilities. Alyson turned in a strong performance as well, but what was amazing was the chemistry between these two actresses. The emotional connection was so intense. You couldn't help but be caught up in it.
It was interesting to finally get some insight into Tara's background. Given what we learned it is easy to see why Tara was so shy and insecure. Now that Willow knows about her background and Tara fears about being a demon have been resolved, I think that we will see Tara start to explore the full potential of her powers.
The bedroom scene was beautifully done. Joss showed us the simple joy of two people in love. If there was ever any doubt as to the depth of Willow's and Tara's love or the strength of their commitment all one had to do was look at the final scene. It was so evident during their dance. It was a magic moment.
Given everything that happened last night I would say that the odds of Tara becoming a regular before the end of this season and being around for the duration just went up significantly.
Can someone tell me what Tara's bedtime story was all about?
I got the dolphin reference, but I didn't understand the 'half a camel' thing. The only symbolism I know about camels is dirty and rude, so I shall not repeat it here. Anyone else have a clue?
i second everything everyone's posted. this is certainly one of the best Buffy ep's ever. it had every single element necessary for a great show. it was like an amazing amberdelic mini movie. =)
to answer some questions:
- what her father said about supporting
her for 18 years only meant that she went away to college at 18 and ever
since then they lost (touch) control of her. she's 20 now and i always
thought she was older than them. (go me)
- not everyone needs to move
out of dorms in the summer. at least i didn't. and since it's so tara's
room i'm sure she wouldn't move out of there. would you want to
re-decorate another room? (april, the x-mas lights this time were held up
a little different though. =) inside joke)
to contribute to the thread:
- i found it hilarious when the father
was in her room and he was holding up a phallic-y looking quartz as he
spoke about magic and toys. did anyone else noticed that?
- buffy
calling dawn a hair puller was sooo subliminal! i think i got it but
everyone else was like *huh* and i had to explain what hair puller meant
in NYC anyway.
- vixen, *sigh* all i have to say about that.
-
rallying around tara after she cast the spell, it was joss' brilliant way
of letting all the buggers out there know that they are all behind the
tara arc and that she is part of the scoobies. *essential* much more so
than anya anyway. she can do majick!
- when spike punched her i
cracked up. i couldn't help but think about all the phobes out there that
would have wanted to do the same thing to her. will should have definitely
kissed her nose but it was the most touching scene for me of the whole ep.
*i'm not a demon* *you're not a demon* that is what the whole arc is
about. *he hurt my nose.* I wish willow or tara had punched him back.
being a child of what appeared to be physical abuse as well i'm sure tara
can pack a punch. and willow should have held her after she said *no* that
it wasn't a lie.
- i'm so exited to see Sandy! i wonder who sired her
because vamp will killed her. she didn't give her her blood, right?
- i
too have so many more questions about tara's family. joss is incredible
and i cant wait for what's to come.
ok, enough ramblin.
------------------
*a few thoughts on the subject by a lil'
nothing*, Rasputina
I can't possibly say anything that has'nt already been said. But I'll try anyway.
On Miss Kitty-I also thought that was a stand-in for our beloved "real" Miss Kitty. The fact is cats grow really fast and when you consider we had the entire summer for our kitty to grow up, the "real" Miss Kitty is probably full grown by now.
I also loved the interaction between Tara and Anya. Anya is so blunt and Tara is slightly out of it. There is definant comedic possibilities in their relationship.
Did anyone else notice Taras' reaction when Giles gave her the crystal ball as a gift? Funny. And puzzled.
It seems growing up surrounded by sexiest men has had one positive effect. Tara could be a pool shark.
For just a moment forget that we saw W/T hit the sheets together. Just
for a moment now. I loved the bedtime story Tara was telling.
A lonely kitty, ferrets, dolphins, camels, half camels and a happy home.
For some reason I love that dialoge.
A great and (I'll say it) a very sweet show.
spring:
how's your karma this week? remember that your insect reflection...
blah blah blah... that one i didn't get but it's so funny to see tara and
anya talking about stuff. i hope anya doesn't use tara to get her powers
back.
the story was about tara being lost and adopted by the
scoobs. that's why i got out of it. the camel thing is probably a cheese
man reference, or not. so i should just say *i don't know about the half
camel part* maybe half of her is still missing since we dont really know
everything about her yet?
------------------
*a few thoughts on the subject by a lil'
nothing*, Rasputina
ok. i confess. i didn't get the ferret, dolphin, camel, OR 1/2 camel reference. Anybody wanna toss clues to the clueless?
I thought the half-camel was just Willow and Tara being silly. The entire bedtime story thing was them being silly, so they carried it to a logical silly-extreme.
As for Miss Kitty, I remember that on Star Trek: TNG, Mr. Data's cat Spot went through many transformations - sometimes in the same episode and once it even changed gender! So all in all, the differences between the various Miss Kitties are small by comparison.
The more I talk about this episode, the more it grows on me. Maybe it was the election-tension last night that made me a bit
off about it at first.
I was in no way let down by the ep and I'd sad to see some people were... Again I can see the points of some people, but refer to my earlier post about the main players needing normalcy in the paranormal-cy that surrounds them -- everyone meaning something -- and realistic in the face of a supernatural/scifi/fantasy show plot.
If Tara had been named half demon, people would have had Doyle issues.
If she had been called a neutral demon, people would have had Whistler
issues.
If she was deemed a faery or some mythological creature, people
would have had issues.
No matter what it was or it is, people are going
to have strong reactions. Some group or some theory is going to be
'disappointed' to some length. So I realize that and I can see where
different beliefs or different people are coming from.
Personally, I was not letdown.
I was proud of the
character.
Don't want to repeat myself, so I'll just say in summary
that though perhaps the family background wasn't as detailed yet, more is
bound to come AND if Xander can be human functioning member of the group,
if others can be human etc, why can't Tara? And who said that indefinitely
she is or will be? Look at Oz... he was a normal teenager and he got
bitten MANY episodes after we first met and adored him. Did we turn on
him? No.
This show has constantly defined DEMON in ways very few other shows have. It's not black and white. Evil isn't evil, Mister Maclay. We've seen Angel, vampire with a soul. Oz, boy turned werewolf. Whistler, neutral. Doyle, half demon. We've seen good demons, neutral demons, evil demons. As Anya pointed out last night, there are various types. JUST LIKE PEOPLE. Each demon or villain or vamp they present us with is individual, just like a person. Each demon represents our REAL inner demons. That's the point of the entire show.
About the various animals: They were just being silly. One assumes a little that the dolphins were thrown in because Alyson herself loves dolphins (hence the tribal dolphin tattoo!).
As per Tara's age: If she left before her 19th birthday a year ago,
that would meant the 18 years with her family. See?
And also: I think the episode will grow more on people as they rewatch. It's such a great ensemble piece as well. We see villain plots continuing, little recurrances popping up, meshing Glory, Harmony, Ben into the hour, a sideplot with sea1/sea2 type baddies that again, like s1/s2 melded nicely into the main plot, story arcs arc-ing with Riley/Buffy, Dawn/Buffy, Dawn herself, Buffy/Giles, Dawn/Giles, Anya/Xander, Anya herself, and again MORE DREAMS TOLD! with Restless "what you are" for Tara and TYG Faith/Buffy sheets to Dawn/Buffy.
Little Willow
------------------
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www.AmberBenson.net
::
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Well ferrets are pets in many areas so finding some at the pound wouldn't be so out there.
In general when Willow was asking about dolphins and camels, she was just being silly playing the role of a child asking odd question while being told a story. But the dolphins reference may have been a suble in joke - Aly has a dolphin tatoo. As for the half camel, isn't a half camel a move in gymnastic or figure skating?
Hi all . . . while I've been lurking (and reading with great enjoyment) for a while, this is my first post, so I hope I'm doing this right. What's brought me out of lurkdom is "Family" . . . After living in fear for a few weeks that Tara, whom I love, would turn out to be bad and subsequently get the axe, I can't tell you a) how relieved I am that she's apparently turned out to be good, and b) how absolutely DELIGHTED/THRILLED I am that Joss resolved the mystery in such a heartwarming episode!
Welcome november. Now that you've delurked, head over to the Introduction thread and let us know more. We're a greed bunch.
And I agree with you, not only did I enjoy the episode but I was relieved. Good times all around.
I think the camel thing was just silliness. But isnt there some sort of metaphor or analogy that related to camels getting partway into a tent? If I remember correctly (which I freely admit I probably don't) it has something or other to do with slippery slopes, that once you let a little bit of an idea in, it's as bad (or good) as accepting the whole thing. So maybe the half camel was supposed to be a reference to the continuing issues Joss has to deal with with society and WB execs and such in order to do right by W/T. He's managed to get half the camel in the tent.
Okay, I'm re-reading that and it looks completely incoherent, so I'm going to go back to 'they were being cute and silly'.
-len
Actually Len, that's the best explanation I ever heard in my entire life (No, really!) The reason why I think it's not JUST them being silly is that :
a) Joss wrote the ep
b) Joss directed the ep
c) Half a camel is really just gross. I mean, it's half an anima, that's disgusting- that's not silly or cute, that's like you know a magic trick gone awry (like cutting the lady in half). Camels spit all the time and are smelly and dirty animals.
I'm staking a lot on this camel reference, but I gather it's something symbolic about sex.
Camel is a hump backed animal, half a camel is one that well, has no humped back- see? Of course this isn't the dirty reference I mentioned earlier, just me a ramblin'.
Isn't it just like willow to want an animal that you never hear about in fairy tales to be in hers. kinda of a 'it's not fair camels are left out of things like this.' so willow included one.
ok. i'm getting tired of all this camel bashing! they are not dirty, smelly animals. friggin horses are exactly the same. camels are amazing animals that survive in the harshest of regions and are extremely helpful to humans. so what if they spit? everyone spits. it's not like they look to aim at people. cats fart, or at least my best friends did. and dogs rummage through garbage, cats too. ferrets stink more than any other animal i have ever known. i love camels and was extremely glad i was able to ride one even though it scared the begeebies out of me at first. i've been to camel nurseries and they are the friendliest and cutest animals in the world. ok, i'm exagerating but you get my point.
and yes I am half serious!
------------------
*a few thoughts on the subject by a lil'
nothing*, Rasputina
I'm kind of a dog person myself.
Anyway, has anyone mentioned the little foot action that Willow gives Tara when she's coyly telling Tara she doesn't need snuggles?
And I must say that the "he hurt my nose" comment was begging for a kiss on the nose -- followed naturally with an "OUCH."
I clearly understand now that Tara was referencing Nietzsche, like DUH!:
In the "Three Metamorphoses" section of Also Sprach Zarathustra,
Nietzsche describes "How the spirit becomes a camel; and the
camel, a
lion; and the lion, finally, a child." This parable is autobiographical
and casts light on Nietzsche's spiritual journey from
discipleship to
Wagner to being a "free-spirit" [freier Geist] who bequeathed to posterity
a philosophy that shines brightly in the
heavens as an eternal
testament to thought of the highest rank. Nietzsche claims that his
painful struggles to become fully himself and
to achieve mastery are
hardly unique but hold universal lessons, "As it happened to me...so it
must happen to everyone in which a
task wants to take form [in dem
Aufgabe leibhaft werden] and come into the world."
[This message has been edited by Spring (edited 11-08-2000).]
I didn't see the foot thing Zelda, I'll have to watch for it on tape (oh darn).
But did you notice the little back rub thing Willow gave Tara during the dancing, right when they got closer together? I liked that a lot. Very couple-y.
-len
i didn't notice the footsie but i did notice how they slipped a reaction shot of Tara after Buffy asked where Dawn was (concerned) and she (dawn) walks into the dorm room. Tara nodded as in *she's here, she's ok* kinda way. i was intrigued by this. They could have edited in anyone else. Maybe Joss just wanted more Amber. don't we all.
------------------
*a few thoughts on the subject by a lil'
nothing*, Rasputina
I totally saw the footsie! Beyond adorableness. Not only that, but when Tara was leaving with the box from Buffy's room, and Willow came up to her to tell her to start taking boxes out to the car... Willow puts her hand over Tara's, which is holding on to the box. Than as Tara leaves, Willow brushes her hand over her elbow. Man, I love those little intimate touches! I'm wondering, at this point, if it's just something Aly's automatically interjecting into scenes? Or something the directors/writers are still putting in? Of course, Tara's less touchy, but maybe that'll change now!
Touch-a touch-a... um, oops, wrong thread
------------------
Life if it was sweet,
would mean your touch is
complete.
Around my mind forever
simply one love divine... together.
A few more thoughts on "Family"
- I loved the way that once again Spike was able to reveal the obvious, that the demon curse was simply manipulation by the male members of Tara's family. He has such a gift for that.
- You had to feel sorry for Tara's cousin at the end. In spite of what happened she couldn't bring herself to admit that she too was being manipulated. She was totally brainwashed. It's sad to see something like that happen.
- Did anyone else get the impression that Tara's brother was stupid. After seeing the Scoobies defeat those demons he still physically threatened Tara. That was dumb. I almost wished he had tried something and got his butt kicked.
- I have to wonder what was Sandy's role last night. Does she have designs on Riley.
- It was great to see the Scoobies come to-gether for the whole episode. Maybe this is a sign of things to come.
- I wonder what is driving some of the residents of Sunnydale crazy. Is it Glory's presence in town or could this be some side effect of Dawn.
[This message has been edited by Roxton (edited 11-08-2000).]
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Roxton:
Hmmmm...I was wondering this too, if Dawn has anything to do with the
raging insanity afflicting Sunnydale. I'm sure I'm reading too much into
this, but I couldn't help but go "hmmmm..." when Buffy says to Riley
regarding Dawn that Dawn "drives her crazy". Just maybe Dawn is driving
everyone crazy??
Or maybe I'm the crazy one...
Cylinda
Adrienne, that's cause Willow's the butch
I just wanted to say again, that Tara had better looks for willow during the dance. Willow's best looks were when Tara comes inside the covers, and she's looking up at her.. ahhh.. and when she says my dance. I also noticed Aly's voice was much softer than the more hysterical tone she sometimes gets when she's emotional. It was weird at first, but it's kind of cool.
i'm soo sad! i didn't have enough time to write my critical analysis tonight... oh well...
but i did want to mention a few things.
i'm thinking the sally thing was a red herring. yknow, joss trying to slip us up and make us think that this had to do with doppelgangland... which we all totally fell for!
i totally saw the footsie, the brush, and the hand... i also saw that look tara gave as buffy is looking for dawn. my interpretation was that tara was thinking 'good. buffy is taking care of dawn like she is supposed to.'
did anyone else notice the clothing color scheme for family? very deliberate, imho...
i'm just glad we solved the 'is that xander or xander's dummy?' issue!
I don't think Tara looking at Buffy and Dawn is significant. I actually saw this as a walk in the shoes of Tara day. In that first scene, we something we had never seen. We see her react to the other people in the gang. We know she thinks xander is a sweetie. When riley and xander are wrestling, we see her reaction, she thinks they are funny. When she sees Buffy's caring for Dawn, she approves. When she throws in an awful joke, she is self depricating
Now that we know what her family is like I can't help but wonder if Tara might be looking at at Riley, Xander, Dawn and Buffy and wishing, "if only my family could have been like that". Just a thought.
Well:
- Riley was obviously tank grown from hybrid alien/human DNA and
implanted into Iowa as part of the cover a secret government
program.[see X-files for the full story]
- Xander comes from creepily abusive parents who we never see but only
know through not-so-positive references
- Dawn? Don't EVEN get me started on Dawn, she who is made of pure
energy and given human form by Czech monks
- Buffy, well her home life hasn't been the swellest
If anything, I'm sure Tara's been thinking all along that with their respective family backgrounds she fits right in.
Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but yet *another* nice touch in Family was Xander suggesting "back oils" as a present for Tara. Suggests some nice imagery for moi
I thought it was 'bath oils' you naughty freudian be-slipped vixen!
actually, i think he said "bath oils", but the image is still a nice one...
i have so much i want to say about "family", but no time to type it! i depart on a 4-day trip to atlanta in an hour...
Oops, thanks spring, April -- I stand bashfully corrected! (In my dialect of English, I pronounce 'bath' with the vowel like the one in 'father'.) I was wondering why no one seemed to have mentioned this; but "bath oils" is still nice, if for some reason less naughty-sounding ....
oh, i think baths can be pretty darn naughty, too...
spring, once again we're on the same wavelength. found any good toys,
er, "crystals", lately?
those naughty wiccans...
My computer has been broken for the last few days (in fact, it broke on Sunday night so maybe the extreme joyfulness after reading the spoilers had something to do with it), but I just wanted to say that, from what I've seen & heard, it looks like an amazing ep. Amber looked totally gorgeous.. *sigh* And the cuteness factor! And W & T on a bed together! And the return of MKF! And I have to stop now or I am just going to gush for hours. But I am SO glad that W & T finally got to act like a couple in public. (Is it the first time this season that they've been able to do something traditionally 'coupley'? Not having seen S5 I am ignorant on this - it's only when you actually see an ep that things like this hit you..)
Joss is a genius. Let us worship him.
Welcome from lurkerdom, November!
For everyone wondering about Beth --
Tara calls her "Cousin Beth" when they first arrive. You'll notice that
the
voiceover was looped; the close captioning initially reads simply,
"Hey,
Beth." I believe in postproduction they realized they had to make
clear
Beth wasn't a sister, or even mother, to those who weren't
certain.
If Beth hasn't hit 20 yet, that could be why she didn't know the truth
and
still believes in the "demon."
If she has, it was theorized that she could be from a different side of
the
family that "doesn't" have the "demon" in them - could even be
adopted, or a
girlfriend / married into the family, otherwise not blood
related, et al.
If she has, she could also have just been told she looks like a demon,
etc.
Mental abuse can make you think things and see things that aren't
there.
Think of the Twilight Zone classic... It's all about the eye of
the
beholder.
Speaking of Twilight Zone:
Why oh why did, the very second Beth appeared, I instantly relate
Twilight
Zone to her? I think it was a combination of the ballerina
from "Five
Characters in Search of an Exit" and the blond woman in an
episode I cannot
recall the title of - Someone, anyone, have the title
for this? - The
episode that dealt with the folk legend of the two
friends, the brunette
ex-involved with a man and the blond about to
marry him, when the brunette
casts a spell (with the help of the local
witch-type) to make the man turn
to her instead.
Does anyone else see this TZBeth issue or am I completely alone?
Little Willow
feeling old ::
----------------------
"Magic." -- Willow http://www.amberbenson.net/ http://little__willow.tripod.com/wpwp.html
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Scrolled around and one more topic to address for now: Dawn.
Willow and Tara have both been very Dawn-supportive since REAL ME.
Some quick examples. Including but not limited to.
Willow has consisted let Buffy confide in her about Dawn's 'annoying' level, but she relates to Dawn due to 'spaz' and tries to get Buffy to go easy on her.
NOTE when Willow calls the younger girl "Dawny" (Donny, much?) in RM.
Tara had the thumb wrestling with Dawn, the discussion about Dawn with Willow, et al in Real Me. Then in Family we distinctly see various reactions shots (go Joss) of Tara regarding Dawn.
As per Tara's "sense" of things (see Hush, TYG, Superstar, WtWTA and more) - I wouldn't be surprised if she beyond anyone else DID know more about Dawn, by either her studies, her knowledge, or simply her 'sense.'
Little Willow
--------
"Magic." -- Willow
http://www.amberbenson.net/
http://little__willow.tripod.com/wpwp.html
http://www.gist.com/tvclubs/fanclub.jsp?fanclub=buffy
[This message has been edited by Little Willow (edited 11-09-2000).]
Little Willow - if yer feeling old, i must be fossilizing as we "speak"...
anyway, yeah, cousin beth's reaction to the non-demon truth was abit odd. Did she know all along it was a ploy to keep down the womenfolk? Does she still believe she and/or tara are demons?
'nother question, DearOlDad said "the women in our family" are demons. Did he mean HIS family (passed down from the father) or tara's mum's family?
Thanks for explaining that bit of clunky 'Cousin Beth' dialogue. I was watching with a friend and we both **groaned** when she said that. I guess it was Joss's call to explain Beth's presence, though I would've preferred that Beth's connection to Tara remain ambiguous- it would've been fun to wonder if she was a jealous ex-g/f or something. Not to say that hasn't been ruled out- looking at Tara's family, kinfolk-a-couplin' might not be a completely taboo concept.
You know, it's people like me with our anti-redneck-backwoods stance and ready incest jokes that kept Tara in the closet about her ancestry. I'm ashamed of myself.....kinda. Willow is such a good girlfriend, and such a better person than me
Interior Design comment.
I *loved* that new poster in Tara's room. The one with the faces on it.
It really adds mystery/complexity to her space. Does anyone recognize it -
or know where I can buy one?
I don't know if Beth still believed in the demon curse at the end and I doubt if it really mattered. Beth had become so brainwashed as to the role of the women in Tara's family that the simple fact Tara wouldn't return to look after her father and brother was, in her mind, both incomprehensible and unforgivable.
[This message has been edited by Roxton (edited 11-09-2000).]
Little Willow, the Twilight Zone episode you're thinking of may be "Jess-Belle". It was a one hour episode from season four that stared James Best (Cleatus from The Dukes of Hazzard). Just scanning over my copy of The Official Twilight Zone Companion I see a pic of Best with two actress, one brunette and one blond and in the episode description I see the words majic and menfolk. If you want the more detailed description let me know. When I saw Cousin Beth my first thought was of The Stepford Wives. Anyone remember that?
One other thing Little Willow, since you know Amber did she tell you what Taras' secert was going to be? And what's up with her hair? Like I said before she looks totally brunett now. In the earlier episodes she looks very blonde. Is it Joss or Amber who wanted to make the switch? I'm just wonderin. Thanks.
I think Amber's hair looks different when light hits it as well, I mean in addition to any color changes that might have been made. I think everyone is protective of Dawn, not just Willow and Tara and it's because that was implanted in them, along with the fake memories.
Finally saw the ep after having computer trouble, man it was worth the wait.
I loved how the ep was all about facial expressions. Amber's smile that starts out all wonky and then just gets grinny is beautiful. Especially in the bed scene (Who'd of thought we'd be able to say bed scene?) and the bit at the end where Beth asks if she's happy. Once again Aly is also a queen of expressions. I hate that that girl can make me teary just by looking a little upset. Who didn't cry during Consequences when Willow found out about Faith and Xander?
Joss is a god, no doubt now. I promise to never doubt the man again, he knows what he's doing. Not for a long while have we had an episode this romantic and heart wrenching that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Plus after 6 viewings it still hasn't worn off. I like that Tara was the catalyst for the supposed theme of this season. It was because of her that the Scoobies were all brought together as a family. I feel Dawn will be the one to keep them this way. And now that Tara's a real scooby there'll be no getting rid of her that easily. I'm glad she'll be around in a Scooby capacity for a while.
I also enjoyed the way Joss compared B/R and W/T during the party. Riley comes in and they're all smoochy but not much spark, then W/T dance and it's electric. And they used the L word again, hurrah.
The best ep so far, I'm now really waiting for the next Marti ep, For Your Love, that sounds exciting.
quote:
Originally posted by spuckie:
Little Willow - if yer feeling old, i must be fossilizing as we "speak"...![]()
LOL! No!!
I always feel old. I always say, my age is older than I
look, younger than I feel.
------------------
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www.AmberBenson.net
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Nouvelle: "Jess-Belle" is precisely it! THANK YOU! If you watch it, see if I'm nuts about the similarities - and I mean strictly in features of the girls, Cousin Beth is like a hybrid.
"The Stepford Wives" -- Is there an emoticon for *shudder*?
Cannot comment on the secret keeping.
I don't know if the hair change was character-induced. It's just her hair. Usually back in a scrunchie. ;-)
Little Willow http://www.amberbenson.net/ http://www.envy.nu/yourgirl
Does anyone know what the overnight ratings were for this episode? Did it do well against election coverage?
Seaweed
According to Enigma at the Cross & Stake:
quote:
The WB began the first Tuesday of sweeps with " Buffy, the Vampire Slayer." "Buffy" kicked its way to a 5.1/7. (3.1/5) Wesley pretended to be a vampire at 9 p.m., while "Angel" was away, helped the show to 4.4/6 (last week, " Buffy the Vampire Slayer" 3.1/5).
I think the highest buffy this season was the premiere it was at 5.7. I can't remember. All things considered it did really well. All the episodes this year have picked up from last year.
I really liked this episode.
I was worried for a long time that Tara would become the amazing exploding girlfriend, which is what usually happens on TV. And this didn't happen.
I was also worried that if she didn't explode, that they would become the typical gay couple on TV, who you can tell that they are the gay couple of the show because they are never intimate with each other, they never touch each other, they never do the little things that people do when they are in love. And instead, this show was full of those kinds of things that people do regardless of sexual orientation.
I also liked how he tweaked the censors by having every other couple on the show kissing, just to show the inequity in how the gay charactors are treated.
A couple small niggles. I thought it was odd that Tara didn't introduce Willow to her father. Even if she isn't coming out to him, it seemed incongrious.
Also, I thought it odd that Willow never asked Tara if she wanted to leave *her*. The leaving was as much about leaving Willow as the rest of her life, and I would have thought Willow would have been more forceful to stop her lover.
As the charactors in the show have grown up and become more confident in themselves, I like how the charactor of Tara has brought back some of the ackwardness that we all feel. I like the assertiveness that Willow now shows both in the relationship,in the rest of her life, and with the gang.
There was a big change in Willow's attitude towards the relationship that I wish had been shown on screen, from when she goes from "I was so scared to tell you" to "you are essential". It is now past, but I wi