Here's the place to discuss this week's new Buffy episode.
Well I saw Checkpoint last night but I couldn’t post because of ISP problems…GRRRR
The W/T…lesbian, gay type lover…exchange was sweet and funny but the
cutest scene is when the Watcher who’s interviewing them asks if they are
registered witches and Tara says (stuttering)…rrregistered and then Willow
starts to stutter too!...she starts to say rrr and Tara finishes her
sentence…registered…it was soooooo cute 
Not only are our girls wearing each other clothes but they’re also picking up each other’s habits…that’s so sweet!
Anya in her interview was very nervous, funny stuff and Spike and Joyce
bonding over Passions was also funny.
Hey Warduke, can you fill us in on who says what in the "lesbian gay-type lovers" scene? We've been wondering about that and about how the scene plays...
Review from Ain't It Cool News.
BUFFY 5.12 FAQ
WHAT’S IT CALLED?
“Checkpoint.”
WHO’S RESPONSIBLE?
Teleplay is credited to Team Whedon big
guns Douglas Petrie and Jane Espenson. Petrie wrote this season’s
Spike-centric “Fool For Love." Espenson wrote “Triangle,” which featured
the ill-mannered Viking-like troll.
WHAT DOES TV GUIDE SAY?
“Buffy and company get a visit from
the Council of Watchers, who possess insight into who (or what) Glory is.
Unfortunately, they’re less than forthcoming with the crucial
information.”
ANY GOOD?
More than good.
ARE THE WATCHERS PROPERLY HUMBLED?
No, they’re more arrogant
and bastardly than ever, and convincingly threaten to have Giles deported
back to England forever if Buffy fails to do their bidding.
HOW MANY WATCHERS COME TO SUNNYDALE?
Seven by my count,
including Quentin Travers (Harris Yulin), whom we haven’t seen since 3.12.
ARE THE FEMALE WATCHERS AS HOT AS THAT FAKE FEMALE WATCHER FROM
SEASON THREE?
Pretty much.
IS THIS A FUNNY ONE?
There’s a sub-plot about Anya trying to
hide her demon background from the watchers. It pays off hilariously with
a throwaway gag in the episode’s final scene.
THE BIG NEWS?
All SORTS of big news this episode. Most of
the really juicy stuff comes out in the episode’s final minutes.
LIKE WHAT?
We learn what Glory is!
IS SHE SATAN?
No.
IS SHE DEMON?
No.
IS SHE SEEN THIS WEEK?
Yes. And she seems to have acquired a
second Dreg.
DO YOU STILL LIKE GLORY?
I love Glory! She’s complex! And
makes me laugh!
IS BEN THE EVIL INTERN BACK?
He is.
HAVE YOU FORMED NEW THEORIES ABOUT HIM?
I suspect Ben wants
the key also – but where Glory wants to use it, Ben wants to see it
destroyed.
DO WE LEARN WHAT THE KEY OPENS?
No.
IS BUFFY STILL HEARTSICK?
A bit. She can be spotted at one
point molesting one of Riley Finn’s old sweaters.
HOW’S SPIKE?
Almost back to his snotty old self (a great
relief after his trance-like demeanor in the troll episode)! It looks like
he’ll be playing a more prominent role during the balance of the season.
LAST WEEK’S TV GUIDE LISTING FOR THE “BUFFY” RERUN INDICATED THAT
GLORY “TRAVELS THROUGH TIME TO LAND ON THE SLAYER’S DOORSTEP…” IS GLORY A
TIME TRAVELER?
I suppose it’s not too hard to infer from Glory’s
behavior that she’s from a different era -- though, presumably, not a
future one.
THERE’S SOMETHING ELSE YOU’RE DYING TO TELL US, ISN’T THERE,
HERC?
Suffice it to say this episode has a GREAT ending which ties
up some longstanding loose ends in a very entertaining fashion. Summation
would NOT do it justice.
BEST XANDER LINE THIS EPISODE?
“That was excellent!”
TELL US HOW TO SQUANDER OUR TUESDAYS, O HERCULES!
The WB’s
“Buffy” at 8:00; the WB’s “Angel” at 9:00;
and MTV’s “Road Rules/Real World Challenge” at 10:00.
Tape ABC’s “The Mole”
at 8:00 and Fox’s “Dark Angel”
at 9:00.
HERC’S RATING FOR “BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER” 5.12?
***1/2
[This message has been edited by Zelda (edited January 23, 2001).]
Thanks for reminding me Bob, I knew I had forgotten something in my post
W-we’re friends
T-good friends
W-girlfriends, actually
T-yes,
we’re girlfriends
W- we’re in love, we’re lovers, we’re lesbian,
gay-type lovers
It’s a very cute scene but I do wish they would have had Tara say, “we’re lovers”, just to keep the Willow says something, then Tara says something exchange going.
Oh yeah, I forgot, again 
when Willow is saying the "we’re in love, we’re lovers, we’re lesbian,
gay-type lovers" she puts her hand on Tara's knee
[This message has been edited by Warduke (edited January 23, 2001).]
Thanks Warduke!
Yeah, it would have been fun to have Tara say "lovers" as well, but she does say "girlfriends" and that's good enough for me.
Besides, it sounds very much in-character for Tara to be more reserved while Willow starts hesitantly and then builds up to her spaz-self. People who go around posting "Willow is dead" topics obviously aren't paying attention, because this is exactly the same character we've seen from the pilot.
wow, xita, you were pretty close there!
and warduke, how could you actually *forget* such an important detail? yay for willow putting her hand on tara's knee (and not getting a freak-out rejection this time, ala WTWTA).
omg, i'm so excited for this
ep!
Oh hand on knee scenario....that's cute.
And I love that Willow gets babbly, that's always a winner in my book. Heh, my book, now that will be the day.
I know april, how could I forget that (Brian hangs his head down in shame
)
[This message has been edited by Warduke (edited January 23, 2001).]
thats so sweet! thanks!
Hey Warduke thanks! So you get to watch the ep a day before the others. Hmmm, maybe I should stalk you instead?
I knew Willow would be the one to go on the babble rampage, wonderful. I wish I could hear it (not even talking about seeing)...
------------------
"Hello, Tarasexual now!"
[This message has been edited by Dr.G (edited January 23, 2001).]
Take heart Dr G, I'm sure someone will post a wave sound somewhere.... (please?)
Do you mean it Dr.G…you’d consider stalking me?…OMG, that's so sweet, my very own stalker
Bob would you be able to do a vid for the interview scene? I would love to see the looks on both Willow and Tara's faces during their exchange with the council guy.
------------------
Paula
--------
Amber FanGirl #1a
May the
Amber Force be with you.
Thanks warduke! I knew Willow would escalate things. I for one would have liked Tara saying we're lovers, but she is shy. And it would have been for my own personal reasons. It's good that Willow says all that at the end. And Bob you are right, it's classic Willow. Just because they don't like what she is saying doesn't mean that she isn't saying it in a classic Willow way.
AND HAND ON KNEE!!! Oh gooodie, haven't had one of those since WTWTA and we all remember how that one went. Very sweet! I am psyched now!
Yes Warduke, I most certainly would. I am getting very good at the stalker thingie, if I do say so myself.
Paula, Len said he would be able to digitalize that scene, but he needs a place to put it up. I hope he or Bob will do it. Pleassssssse???
*Must* have my W/T fix...
------------------
"Hello, Tarasexual now!"
Len's right - the problem is finding a place to put the files once we have them. They're very large and attract the attention of the Server people very rapidly. Froggy was nice enough to let me use his site last time, but I wouldn't want to risk his access by having him get caught a second time. I've already gone through a suspension on my own webspace as well. Darn FOX lawyers...
Holy cow, what an amazing episode. This was so good to watch, it was like an hour-long televised orgasm. It's this season's equivalent of Hush or Restless. Okay, I need to move on, I think I've made my point.
I would recount the little details that made this ep so wonderful, but
I'm stricken with the flu and on medication right now, so everythings
kinda fuzzy. Here's the good things I can recall:
- Willow added
'lesbian' to her vocabulary to go along with 'gay' (woo hoo!)
- Glory
was genuinely threatening in this story (something I haven't considered
her to be previously)
- Giles had some great lines
- Spike was
actually usefull to the plot (another area where I've had issues this
season)
- Sarah was: 1.) amazing in her ability to convey the urgency
of Buffy's current situation without losing the humor of the character 2.)
robbed at the Golden Globes - 'honor to be nominated' my asterisk, she was
robbed and tonights ep proves it
Hopefully I can make some comments later on that arent clouded by antihystemines. Until then, I'll just say I loved it. This script contained every aspect of BTVS that makes it such a great show to watch.
*clapping* Very good...LoL Hah anywayz I got many people to watch it that usually don't....Cece particularly ..she liked it ...she was into the whole "bad chick" Glory thing....specially the part about killing everyone and making Buffy watch......she's just ...odd like that. Anywayz I have a cat on my desk annoying me so I'll just ...be going now. LoL
Ciao -
ºAshleyº
Well just saw Buffy and Angel and Buffy finally beats an episode of Angel, hands down.
This episode kicked ass.
Because finally I completely enjoyed an episode of Buffy, no problems, no complaints, just sweet Buffy enjoyment.
This episode is my second favorite episode next to Buffy vs Dracula.
Something related, and just wondering if anyone noticed.
SPOILERS FOR THE FOLLOWING EPISODE OF
ANGEL.
9
8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1
Did anyone else
notice the W/T related question on Angel?
What I mean is:
During the 'hold up' one of the rich people asked one of the stars, "so
what's up with making your character gay? Is it just for ratings, because
I'm not getting
that."
9
8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1
Angel spoilers
done
I can't help but wonder if Joss has been asked that question about
Willow and Tara before. 
------------------
I love Buffy The Vampire Slayer!
LOVED this episode. Nice to see Glory ("who?") again...wonder what she's a Goddess of? Who do you suppose worshipped her?
I was spoiled for it and STILL freaked out during Glory's little chat with Dawn. Maaaaaan....
Yes! Willow used the "L" word!
But my favorite part was Xander as Ted "Theodore" Logan. And if you
don't get it, I'm not explaining the reference.
It's interesting to see Spike becoming more and more open about his feelings for Buffy. ("Is that what you want?") It's only a matter of time now...
And I hate Anya. And I hate it that they're making me hate her less. I
too was raised by both a mother and a father, so maybe we have something
in common... 
Just random randomness from little old me.
~BTG
BTG, I think what you said about Xander as Ted “Theodore” Logan is just excellent
Oh man, this ep just rocked in so many ways. Loved Tara's 'I don't know' look after she gave five as their level. And willow stuttered!! 'of course, we..we...we're...' and then Tara bails her out. Then knee touch, heck, that was a knee graze was so damn cool. Spike torturing Buffy before he said yes when we all know he'd do anything she wants. Loved the introduction of the Knights, these guys look really bad. Overall, this was a very good ep.
I was wondering about that line in ANGEL too Trickster
quote:
Originally posted by Beautiful Tara's Girl:
But my favorite part was Xander as Ted "Theodore" Logan. And if you don't get it, I'm not explaining the reference.
I didn't understand a word of it and I still
thought it was
hilarious! Xander rocks.
Nice, subtle little Riley reference at the beginning, when Buffy picks
up his sweater.
Not too overdone but enough to satiate the Finnatics.
After hearing speculation at TC&S
about Triangle not "fully
delving" into a post-Riley Buffy depression, this was *not* that, and I'm
glad.
Loved Anya's little nervous lies. Heck, that
whole interview session
complete with the hand on leg, and Tara's cute little shrug after she said
"five?" was hilarious.
I love this new hairstyle of Willow's. And Anya is always and forever my bitch.
Glory and Ben . . . scary. At last!
Was it just me or was the makeup on Derg's face *all* off?
Nice touch - Glory sucking the brain out of a *postal worker*. LOL!
Buffy so kicked the little arse of those Watchers. And they mentioned Faith! Maybe foreshadowing her return? Me hopes so.
Spike, do you *try* to be an A-hole or does it come naturally? Man,
wasn't James gorgeous
when he noticed the Watcherlady wrote her thesis
on him? There must be *someone* out here who likes penis besides me . . .
"She's a god."
"Oh."
I simply can't imagine Glory being a god of
anything but hideous minions.
And as for Angel:
Man, that episode was off. Like all of a sudden Angel's nice (and
verbal) again and he's *trying* to help people, then he winds up stealing
a bunch of $ from a homeless shelter and returns it to the lady all
bloody. Lame-o. But it had a few nice touches, although I hated the fact
that Darla
and Drusilla were nowhere to be found and that Cordy, Gunn,
and Wesley dissapeared about fifteen minutes in. Julie and especially
Juliet have given this show the spice and direction and darkness it
needed
this year - it just doesn't fly that they just go away.
Still, was it not *hilarious* seeing Wesley dance around in his underwear? And Lilah was seductively evil and I liked that. That scene with her and Angel in the car was kick-ass, too.
But the idea seemed pretty lame overall. Missed my two evil vampire
ladies
------------------
"I tried to be unlovable/why couldn't you do the
same?"
-(jewel)
"Spank us 'til Tuesday! We promise to be bad if you do!"
-(drusilla,
angel)
oh sorry hadn't read this thread before I posted a thread on the angel line
yah I was thinking JW was poking a bit of fun at certain segments of the fan base
i couldn't help but LOL as in ROTFLOL when Willow and Tara were so nervous while answering the questions by one of the council men. as usual, they were so cute and hearing them finish each other's sentences was so darn freakin' priceless! they did that too in Triangle and it just goes to show, they're shouting it out loud "we're gay! we're lesbians! we're lovers! we're proud of who we are!" that's two L's in one night: LESBIANS and LOVERS!now they deserve a snoopy dance
you go girls!
Man: Well, I need to know more about the slayer. And about the both
of you, your relationship, whatever you can tell me.
Tara: Our
relationship?
Willow: We're friends.
Tara: Good friends.
Willow:
Girlfriends, actually.
Tara: Yes, we're girlfriends.
Willow: We're
in love. We're lovers. We're lesbian/gay type lovers. (Willow places her
hand on Tara's knee, like that staircase scene in Where the Wild Things
Are.)
Man: I meant your relationship with the slayer. (Willow suddenly
removes it realizing their mistake...)
Tara: Uhm, just good
friends.
now that was just too adorable to forget! i'll be smiling all night and tomorrow and for the rest of the wk, month, year, whatever!
i watch Passions and a reference to Timmy the doll and the wedding (that would be Gwen and Ethan's) by Spike and Joyce was just another funny thing. SMG is very much addicted to it and i know for a fact Joss loves watching it too. even Passions mentions Buffy most of the time. oops, don't forget Joyce saying: "I love what you've neglected to do with the place."
this is another excellent ep! loved it to the max! and trickster, i noticed that dialogue in Angel too referring to that bit about a character being 'gay' for the ratings.
now who could forget the cheering squad of Anya, Xander and W/T when the Buffster had finished her speech? i also loved the fight scenes between Buffy and the knights. action-packed! thrilling! amazing! funny! dramatic! that's why i love this show! yes SMG shld have won the Golden Globe!
if Glory's a god, then we have to catch up with our mythology...
goddess of ??? will be pervading our minds. and Buffy didn't get spooked
at all, just saying "oh" was somehow saying.. "so?" heh.heh. sorry, have
rambled looooong enuf. cheers and peace
------------------
Willow to Buffy: "we have to face it, you can't
handle Tara being my girlfriend..." The Yoko Factor
No one would happen to have a clip on RM or anything of the W/T scene in this ep would they? I am sooooo sad. My VCR wronged me!! AHHH!!! I am gonna scream. Damn my work for making me work too!!
Thank you so much!
I loved this episode so much. I may be the only one but I love cheering for Buffy. Buffy is my slayer and I love it when she acts like it. I think the arc is finally picking up. Joss promised the big bad would interact more with the scoobies this year and it looks like it might finally start happening. Glory with Dawn was just too creepy. The knights are cool. I like the idea of this, the key being so important, it only makes sense that more than one person would be interested in it.
W/T YEAH! That rocked. THat wasn't a leg touch, it was a leg hug. Very much nicer than our other sadder knee touch. They were close too throught the ep, sitting real close, very cute. I love them finishing their sentences as well. They are such a cute unit now. I love it. Anya was really funny. "Willow's a demon?" He he. She's such a bad liar. Oh, there's more. I'll just have to watch it again later. I have to wait till Angel is over to do that.
I have a few theories on tonight's episode, but my computer is acting wacky, so I better keep this brief - fabulous job all around! Although I am first and foremost a W/T fan, Buffy was awesome! Every line was well delivered, and tonight was a great showcase of SMG's talent. *scowls* Golden Globes, hah! Take that!
On another point, I love the way Tara looked at Willow after she told the watcher that they were fifth level witches. What a pair of conspirators! That made me giggle for a long time after the episode was over.
Thank you, Buffy - I should have a warm-fuzzy for the next few days!
i really liked this episode. it reminded me of the old classic buffy episodes. like in 3rd season, their senior year, with faith, and the watcher stuff. i don't think the recent stuff if as good [with the exception of w/t, of course]. i loved their little scene with the council guy. and anya cracks me up, as does spike and 'passions'. when glory was talking to buffy about killing her family & friends i got a flashback to bad-angel killing ms. calendar. that seem's like *so* long ago, that ep was really scary.
The CoW interviews were a definite highlight for me. Not just the W/T babbling, but also Anya and Xander. I admit it took me awhile to warm up to Anya but I'm really liking her now. Emma has such great comic delivery. I wonder if that info she gave the council guy about herself was correct. I've read other sources that said her last name was Emmerson. Here she says it is Jenkins.
Oh, and I'm also from South-Eastern Indiana. 
I'm from Central Indiana. That's near South-Eastern Indiana.
What is there to say that hasn't already been said? This episode was tremendous! I too loved the Willow/Tara interview, seeing them huddled together on the bed being all nervous trying to answer the questions, and Willow being her old spazzy self. I also like the look they shared during Buffy's speech, when Buffy referred to them as "two powerful witches."
Woo-hoo! More of this, please... 
[This message has been edited by BBOvenGuy (edited January 24, 2001).]
Okay, I absolutely *loved* this episode! And mostly for reasons non w/t, though of course lesbian gay-type lovers kicked some serious ass! Oooh and the hand...it would be sinful for me to not mention Willow Hand.
How great were *everyones* lines tonight? From "5, level 5" to "Bad day..bad day.."
The Watchers Council is such a great group to hate, I dont think theres been an antagonist this season thats made me so angry! Go Watchers Council! I hate you!
And that brings me of course to Buffys speech...how masterful! SMG delivered her lines so well tonight, I just couldnt help myself from jumping up off the sofa and yelling "you GO buffster!" when the sword was thrown! Her attitude was kickass, her clothes were amazing, her hair was wonderful..buffy just made this ep for me. Buffy, you're doin just fine without Riley. Like she said in the beginning, she dont need no man! (okay that wasnt verbatim...)
Dawn dawn...your being sassy is going to kill you! If some rare disease thats hibernating in spikes crypt doesnt first...oi. cuz your mom is too busy discussing passions with the big bad to worry about you! joyce and spike, bff.
*sigh* This ep was so wonderful, the gang seems so close again...buffy is taking the reins with *everything* (well except those knights, i wished shed have spent more time explaining she wasnt their enemy) willow and tara are officially lovers..in love...lesbian gay type lovers...ah things are good kittens, things are good!
yet despite all this happiness the back of my mind is preoccupied with my little dawn ;.; im worried!
Oooh ooh! I almost forgot! Who else noticed the In n Out cups on buffys
coffee table in the beginning of the ep!?!? Or am I the only one excited
by in n out??? ^^
[This message has been edited by Utena (edited January 24, 2001).]
Ok not only am I jeaalous as hell of everyone who has seen this episode, now I want an In n Out double double w/fries. I haven't had one of those in about 5 years.
Ok I also want a Papa john's veggie pizza with sauce on the side and a root beer.
Man I need to go home to the states...soon.
------------------
Paula
--------
Amber FanGirl #1a
May the
Amber Force be with you.
Utena yes those are In and Out cups, but strangely the fool looks like it's chinese. Hmmm..
Hi, a newbie here
Did anyone notice that Buffy made a slip when she was making her speech to Quentin? She said that she -had something Glory wanted- iirc correctly.... She basically admitted that she had the Key/knew where it was. Her exact words were..."I have something she wants" or something to that effect... I think she might have slipped up there...
------------------
Poe
Good Buffy? Best Buffy ever!!
This ep reminded me of how strong this whole series is. There have been episodes in the past that didn't thrill me the first time through, but after being treated to the mind-blowing revelations and developments that come in other episodes, by the end of the season i'm looking at the whole rather than the parts with each ep like a chapter in a novel. Very often there are reflections and references to the season's themes in individual eps that are recognizable only in hindsight. There are numerous examples of this, especially last season. It amounts to masterful storytelling and makes me feel that, by the end, this season will prove to be the best yet.
Best MOFO Buffy this year!! I can't add much to the already gushing things that have been said but, because there's no one here to stop me, here I go:
-Loved the end speech..nearly spit my pepsi out of my nose when buffy
was going on about the scoobs not being children..
Buffy: "Two powerful
witches and a 1,000 year old demon."
Anya(in mock horror): "Willows a
demon??"
-Glory was F-A-B-U-L-O-U-S! Even though I hadn't remained spoiler-free..seeing her in Buffy's house made my heart jump!
-Was it me, or was James looking ESPECIALLY edible last night? Does the dank lighting just highlight his complextion..or is that just me?
-The Knights added into the mix are VERY interesting.. Do you think Ben sent them?
-W/T..could these two be a friggin' cuter?!?! I'm smitten!
-S
definately a great episode. best one since "family".
i agree with all that's been said. just one more comment : anyone else love the parelels (dam i cant spell sorry) between the watchers council and her stupid professors? nice touch jane and doug!
Hey Poe, welcome to the board! If you get a chance visit the Introduction thread and introduce yourself
And yes that was a bit of a slip up, but maybe not. I mean maybe that prompts the scoobs to question her about what is going on. Who knows?
For those of you who didn't see Checkpoint last night, or if you missed it, there are vidcaps at AHC... http://www.deaddogparty.com/alycheck.html
And here's a little "this will put a smile on any kitten" pic...
woo and hoo!
i was waaayyyy too tired to post cogent thoughts about this ep last night during my free time, but now that i'm here at *work*, i have lots of energy! heh heh. so here i go...
i second all the enthusiastic things that people have said here so far! this was a *great* buffy ep, finally bringing many of the disparate elements from this season together. some of my very favorites, from the beginning to the end:
- tara's cute comments about english people. could she be any more adorable?
- willow's "oooh, there's a delegation comin'" line.
- anya's hysterical attempts to seem genuinely human thoughout the show. to say nothing of the way that her uh, rear, looked in that dress in the first scene in the magic shop...
- buffy entering the magic shop, seeing the watchers, and saying "bad day. bad, bad..." while trying to turn around and leave. SMG delivered that line perfectly!
- the watcher interviews with all 4 scoobies. i hardly need to say more
about this scene.
- spike. just for being spike. yum.
- a glimpse of the bond between buffy and giles that's been missing for a long time.
- the scene between glory, buffy and dawn. omg, how scary! glory is finally becoming a character worthy of her big bad status...
- those knights are going to be people to watch out for.
- and of course, the final scene. buffy's speech and her throwing that sword was priceless. "willow's a demon?" hee hee hee...
i felt like last season got better and better as it progressed, and
it looks like this season will, too. it's clear that all of the scoobies
are going to be involved in helping buffy tackle glory, and that anya and
tara are undoubtedly part of the gang now. if i were glory, i'd be
worried...
god i can't wait for sweeps! the rest of this season has the potential
to be excellent!
do I need spoiler space here ?
3
2
1
so here is my question
buffy has this knight guy who is from some
ancient order and trying to kill her and the key and KNOWS glory, even
calls her THE BEAST and yet buffy who is despirate for info on glory
doesn't push the knight for info on glory? why? why didn't she get all he
knows about glory out of him? then she wouldn't have needed the watchers
council
I love it when buffy defeats her own self doubts and takes charge and
tonight she did just that she grew up and took her place as an adult and took the reigns of power as the slayer
Giles pointed her in the right direction with the comments about 'who has power' and that he should have 'set buffy on the council guy'
buffy's 'can I do' that reply to giles was a first step to her realization that indeed she can, she is an adult and can stand up to adults even those more senior and who hold power be it in school or work.
Buffy took her place as an adult in this ep
she defeated her fears
and self doubts, over came the child bowing to adult authority (first her
teacher then the council) and restored the proper order (council helps
slayer not other way around)
I love when that happens, when the woman takes power and SMG does it
so
well!
tvsurfer, you always have such great comments! why don't you register (click here) so that your posts can start counting towards the illustrious ranks of floating rose, cool monster fighter, palm reader, nether world anchor, big pineapple, etc...
i totally agree with your comment about buffy and the knight, by the way. he was at her mercy, and obviously had some information. why didn't she get it out of him?
quote:
Originally posted by april:
i totally agree with your comment about buffy and the knight, by the way. he was at her mercy, and obviously had some information. why didn't she get it out of him?
I think she sensed he would rather die than tell her anything so why waste time. The Knights seem a little fanatical and Buffy merely let him go.
If I had a prisoner who had just tried to kill me and was after my family I sure would make the time to drill him for information
esp. since he know obviously knows of glory and readily called her THE BEAST. Buffy could have followed the knights statement with "THE BEAST , what do you know of her" or "well then we both share a common enemy, THE BEAST , what do you know of her, who is she"
if the knight had told her the beast was a god or any other information she gained from the knight would have been a trump in dealing with the council
she would have really taken the starch out of the councils sails at the end if she told the council guy they better have more info on the god glorificous or they (the council) were worthless to her
What can I say that hasn't been said already, Checkpoint was great. I loved the way Aly and Amber handled their scene with the council member, it was beautifully done. I also thought that ASH gave a great performance last night.
So now the Scoobies not only have to worry about Glory and Ben they have to contend with the Knights of Byzantium. Things are really starting to heat up.
Regarding Glory being a God, I have to wonder how the Watchers Coucil would define that status. Is she omnipotent, immortal or simply invincible like the Mayor, and does she have a weakness that can be exploited?
Finally we leaned that Giles likes single malt Scotch. What can I say, the man has impeccable taste.
[This message has been edited by Roxton (edited January 24, 2001).]
Glory certainly isn't an omniscient god, since The Key was standing right in front of her face and she didn't realize it. She also can't be an omnipotent god, since she needs her minions to bring her brains to feed off of every now and then.
Therefore, I'd say that Glory does have weaknesses, and can be beaten if Buffy can find out what they are and how to exploit them.
Another interesting question that hasn't really been explained yet is - what is Dawn The Key to? If all Glory wants to do is go home to the ethereal regions, then I say let her go and good riddance. And yet they're not doing that, so I think there must be some other repercussions involved if Glory does get her hands on Dawn.
[This message has been edited by BBOvenGuy (edited January 24, 2001).]
well I doubt she is omnipotent
she didn't know who buffy was and where she lived or that dawn is the
key and buffy has been able to escape her twice
Glory has been refered
to as The Beast (a term for satan?) and she requires sucking out human
brain energy to sustain herself. If she doesn't "drink" she goes psyco and
looks like an addict in withdrawl. Ben is probably of equal power and one
wonders why he doesn't need to "drink"
The fact that glory says ben
drives her crazy suggests they're connected and ben has influence on glory
RE: what is dawn the key to
keys open things
and we know glory is on the clock to get the key. She needs to open something and soon since there is apparently an appropriate alignment that is necessary and approaching
we also know she has been to earth several times since there have been several crazy people out breaks that ben has had to summon the queller demon for over the eons. Ben has had to clean up glories messes
this alignment thing and enery/key to open something is very reminiscent of the early buffy eps where the master needed energy/souls to open a portal/escape another dimension.
so my guess is ben and glory are connected gods and glory is attempting to find the energy source necessary to open the portal back to her dimension/world
RE: what is dawn the key to
keys open things
and we know glory is on the clock to get the key. She needs to open something and soon since there is apparently an appropriate alignment that is necessary and approaching
we also know she has been to earth several times since there have been several crazy people out breaks that ben has had to summon the queller demon for over the eons. Ben has had to clean up glories messes
this alignment thing and enery/key to open something is very reminiscent of the early buffy eps where the master needed energy/souls to open a portal/escape another dimension.
so my guess is ben and glory are connected gods and glory is attempting to find the energy source necessary to open the portal back to her dimension/world but opening that portal would probably cause havoc with this world
opps sorry about the double post
my puter and I don't always work well together
One thing that alarmed me greatly was Glory's Death Threat. [1]
It's been a while since we have had the threat of character demise hanging over our heads. Remember the terror when Jenny Calendar was so untimely taken from us? (oh, we miss her still....)
In this ep, we saw Glory say straight up "The next time we meet,
someone you love ends up bloody." Given the way that the Buffyverse tends
to have idle threats either
a) turn out to be not so idle after all
or,
b) Horribly and ironically backfire,
I think we can expect
something terrible to come from this.
My bet? Joyce is a dead woman walking. Her illness was a warning, to remind us of her mortality, and to show us what would happen to Buffy. Riley leaving her, her mother's murder, Dawn's nigh-certain destruction at the end of the season.... The Buffster is about to have a Bad Day. A Bad, Bad Day.
--
Rev.Jon@han
[1] Please refer to it that way in all future discussions. It's a good phrase; punchy, direct, abnormally capitalized.
[x] anyone care to lay money down on who's got a target painted on
them? Buffy hasn't had a good ol' slaughter of characters-with-names in so
long.... My list of dead-at-season's-end:
Joyce, Dawn, (Riley, if he
returns), Glory, Ben, Quenton Travers, the female watcher, (heck, ALL the
watchers), and a 50% chance of Oz. Dead folks walkin'....
bob, i was asking similar questions in chat last night. what *is* dawn the key to, and why is it so important that glory not use her (other than the obvious consequences for dawn)? i also think that if using the key just sends glory back to wherever she came from, then hey, hasta la vista, baby.
initially, i too thought it strange that glory was a god yet had such obvious weaknesses. she's powerful, but not all-powerful, she can't recognize her key when it's standing right in front of her, and she has this tendency to go insane without frequent brain sucks. however, it could be that the explanation for her weaknesses is that she's not in her natural element - she's trapped in human form on the mortal plain of existence. besides being irritating for her, this also might have the effect of limiting her powers.
i think buffy needs to learn how to discover and exploit glory's human limitations. it looks like ben can help her do this.
well I agree Joyce is dead woman walking esp given the comments on ep 16 at SSS
I'm not sure they will have dawn disappear
if JW has her stick
around it would be an excuse to bring tara and willow into the summers
home, to help take care of little sister
Reily and Oz I could easily see as expendable
If Glory is going to kill someone off to prove her seriousness to Buffy, I imagine it WOULD be Joyce.
But just imagine the irony, from Glory's perspective at least, if she chose to kill Buffy's sister instead.
Assuming Dawn CAN die (which we don't know, since we don't know exactly what she is), it would be interesting to see how Glory would react to killing the very thing she needed to do...whatever it is she needs the Key for in the first place.
------------------
Kirk B
"Even when I'm at my worst, you always make me feel special. How do you do that?"
"Magic."
Yes, if Buffy was going to go all Machiavelli on us, the obvious thing for her to do would be to taunt Glory into killing Dawn, thus making sure that Glory would never get The Key.
Of course, Glory would probably then go on a rampage and destroy all of Sunnydale, but hey what's one more wave of destruction for the town?
I made a comment on the other thread about the SSS spoilers - I don't trust them. I'm always willing to admit I could be wrong, but they didn't look credible to me.
My two cents:
Looooved this ep! It was the perfect "connecting tissue" in the body of the BTVS story. OK, that analogy was a litle gross...
Anyone else think that Spike is a bit too tan? Looking at previous eps, not only did they used to cake more powder on James' face, but I think James himself has that California glow.*G*
Not that he isn't Faaaabulous, just weird to have a tan vamp.
Knights who say "Ni!" - Why didn't Buff interogate the Guy?
1. He's a zealot, and they rarely give up info easily.
2. No time, as the CoW's are waiting - plus the whole moral issue of torturing a human.
3. Thanks to SMG's brilliantly subtle acting, I saw somw wheels churning in Buffy's head when the Knight (say Kah-Nig-ut) mentioned that more will come after him.
I think she saw the potential of using the army against Glory, maybe like how Adam manipulated the Scoobies and Initiative (except that hopefully Buffy's plan will succeed).
Also, if she has more info on Glory when the Knights of Byzatium return, she might have more luck convincing them to help - or at least tricking them into it.
W/T - ahhh, my girls. What can I say? They rock beyond the capacity of words to express...But I still have a fresh fanfic to post on Friday, illuminating a few of their "lesbian/gay type lovers" moments;~)
Warduke thanks ever so much for posting that pic and the link!
I *will* be stalking you from now on.
I needed the visual aid so very badly after hearing that hand touch described. Wow.
Willow and Tara are looking so darn hot...
This ep sounds so great, I want to watch it, like right now...
Oh and there are some yummie pics of Alyssa Milano there as well. You know, I have a friend who looks just like her...hmmm...I must give her a call sometime soon...
------------------
"Hello, Tarasexual now!"
warduke thank you thank you for the quick caps! heheh utena has a new wallpaper now *^^*
Dr.G, you can bring your “Alyssa Milano” look-alike friend with you when you stalk me, I really won’t mind
Hehehe Warduke, I think I shall keep her all to myself...
Well Dr.G, I can’t say I’m not disappointed but I do understand (I would keep her all to myself too)
Thank you to Warduke for posting the link to my site. That way I don't have to do it which would look like shameless self-promotion
Anyway, I noticed that a few people refer to the Watcher's Council as Council of Watchers which is how they were called in this episode.
Anyone get the slight parallel between CoW and MOO ("Gingerbread")?
-- Nick
Hey no problem Nick, I love your site, anytime you get some new pics, I usually run back here and post it
Y'all know me... hit and run... anyway, loved the ep, but wanted to toss out there. Not only did Willow toss her hand over Tara's knee, but with her other hand she's playing with Tara's knee as well... hehehe. Too cute. Now with the Anya-last-name-thing. I don't think Anya quoted her real name in Checkpoint. I think she made it all up, just like being from Indiana and born on the 4th of July! Just her own nice little 'history'.
One other thing I want to mention that I forgot to mention before - back to the subject of looks and glances, not only did we get some more great W/T ones, but we also got a great Willow/Xander exchange and a priceless exchange of looks to match -
"That's Riley speak."
"I've clocked field time."
It's so great to see Willow and Xander back together in a way that I'm
not sure we've seen since the first third of Season 2. All their first
romances got in the way since that point, then their romance with each
other got in the way, then college got in the way... Now they're back as
buddies, as they should be. I like it.
Yeah Bob, I thought X/W at the end were great. I did caps too
Some random cuteness that I noticed during the "questioning" ....when the man asks about their level Tara responds with "Level?" and right after she says it....she does the cuutest little head turn thing. I don't usually get jumpy over cuteness...but it was just adorable LoL Ok ...I'm done rambling about cuteness factors...
Ciao -
ºAshleyº
Your right Bob, the exchange between Willow and Xander was great to see. Even Anya seemed relaxed with what was happening between them.
Warduke thanks for the link and Nick I loved the vidcaps. Willow and
Tara look so adorable. 
I finally saw this ep tonight (ah the wonders of vcrs).
How very fun!
Some favorite things...
--The whole exchange between Glory and
Buffy, with Dawn walking in. 
--Joyce and Spike bonding over
"Passions" while Dawn tries not to scream in boredom.
--The hints that Rasputin might
be a vampire (if that's what they were suggesting). IMO Rasputin is one of
the few people in history who just might have been one!
--The watcher
who did her thesis on Spike!
--Where does Glory get these
minions? They're great!
--Willow and Tara, just for their smiles if
nothing else (the scene in the bedroom was wonderful--I've nothing to add
on the subject).
--The CoW didn't turn out to be the bastards I've
feared. After all, the simplest way to deal with an uppity Slayer is to
get a new one. Yet they are merely arrogant, not evil. Heaving a big sigh
of relief...
--Buffy's last line. Delivered to perfection.
------------------
"O let my name be in the Book of Love.
If it
be there, I care not of
That other book Above...
Strike it out! Or
write it in anew.
But let it be in the Book of Love!"
--Omar Kyam
Hey thanks warduke for posting the pics. And Nick of course for capping. Looks like you are capping more than Aly now
So many cute pics.
Also, Adrienne, leave it to you to notice Willow's other hand. Yes after the COW guy corrects them, you can clearly see the other hand is playing with the knee. 100 points adrienne! For more caps go to Stain and Varnish and Extra Flamey
Check out the Other Knee Touch
Yowzah! Who ever said this is the shirt from the promo shirt is right. She just wore it with a blue jacket in the pics.
About checkpoint, I loved how that COW woman had done her thesis on Spike. If these cow people knew Spike was helping Buffy, you'd think they would have known about the chip as well.
Great picture of Tara Xita. I think the members of the Council that interviewed Spike knew about the chip but due to his reputation didn't want to take any chances. Even though they had a crossbow and a cross trained on him they still looked very nervous.
Based on the Scoobies reseach into the Queller Demon and from Ben's conversation with Glory's minion we know that he had to summon it on various occasions in order to clean up her messes. If that is the case then Glory has travelled back and forth between our plane of existence and her's without any problems in the past.
So if Dawn is the key that allows her to travel back and forth then she must have been in possession of it until fairly recently (until at least the last Queller incident), which would explain why the Knights of Byzantium want to destroy it.
[This message has been edited by Roxton (edited January 25, 2001).]
mmmmm...oh wow.....tara....yum.
I've been assuming that Glory needs the Key to open something along the lines of the Gates of Hell, the danger being in whatever gets out when she does.
As for Joyce, i've had a strong feeling ever since she got sick that she's a goner. I can't see the writers doing that whole "brink of death" thing as a tease; it's felt like foreshadowing from the beginning.
Yes! Tara was there, Tara said it herself "Griendfriend, lover"!!!
Ok incase you have'nt noticed Tara is never around when Willow
mentions that they are in love with each other, nore has Tara ever said anything about them being lovers to
anyone. Now in last nights episode not only was Tara there, but she also said it herself.
Willow/Tara, We're friends, girlfriends, lovers, we are both lesbian gay type lovers..
WOW!!! the L word!! kewl!!!!!
save the time of
haveing to move my topic, desided to post my topic here.
[This message has been edited by redsun (edited January 25, 2001).]
redsun, yes it's so true. I often wondered what Tara might have felt had she heard Willow call her her gf in The Yoko Factor. It's wonderful. Tara finally got to see the pride that Willow had for their relationship and her sexuality.
quote:
Xita: Tara finally got to see the pride that Willow had for their relationship and her sexuality.
Yes! didn't that scene just give you all kinds of warm fuzzys!!!
That scene was just as good as the first time Willow told Buffy about
how she feels about Tara. Gawd, great bit of warm fuzzys there!
I, too, am enjoying the way both Willow and Tara seem to be more and more comfortable with the openness of their relationship, their sexuality, and each other.
Could it be more perfect? I doubt it.
On the Glory front, someone mentioned that maybe she had the Key
until recently, when the monks got a hold of it.
Ben has mentioned cleaning up Glory's messes all the time, including summoning the Quellor demon.
Is it possible HE is responsible for Glory's losing the Key? Maybe he took it away from her, even going so far as to give it to the monks, to keep it away from Glory and to make sure she doesn't do...whatever it is she plans to do with it.
Oh, and while I'm on the subject, I've been thinking about the use of the word god ever since Travers brought it up.
He says Glory is a god. I disagree, at least on the basis of what I would consider a god to be.
To me, a god is a more or less all-powerful, all-knowing entity. We don't know the extent of Glory's power, so I can't comment on it, but after Checkpoint we know for a fact she is NOT omniscient. She had the Key right in front of her and was completely oblivious, so there are limits to her abilities.
My guess is that Glory is an exceptionally powerful entity, something far beyond a traditional demon, and that she was once (or perhaps still is in some circles) worshipped AS a god. It's not the same thing, exactly, but Travers and his crew would have no other frame of reference and thus no other word to describe her.
------------------
Kirk B
"Even when I'm at my worst, you always make me feel special. How do you do that?"
"Magic."
Check your mythology (and I'm not talking about Xena but it's a fair example) and you might find that there are gods of all types and they are not omniscient and all-powerful. Glory could be a lesser god.
It wouldn't be any fun for the arc if she was just another demon or entity no matter how powerful. I'm going with Travers on this one.
-- Nick
Yeah, greek gods are fun gods full of jealousies and personal relationships.
So, if Glory were to acquire the key and use it, she would then create a Glory Hole?*G*
(Ducking tomatoes and eggs)
Seriously, I think Ben & Glory are like the classic archetypical Dark/Light twins.
Glory is one polarity, and Ben the other. They've been in human form for several thousand years (Glory has commented on how long she's been trapped on this plane).
Glory wants to use the Key to go home, Ben wants to stay.
In times of sparser human population, Glory's brain-sucking made more of an impact - a whole town goes nutty, then Ben summons the Queller.
In a big city that akready has lots of crazies, she blends in better.
It doesn't seem like Glory has had the key all this time, because didn't the monk she beat up tell Buffy that he and his fellow monks had kept the key safe for a really long time? If they had it, then Glory couldn't have. Although that doesn't explain her frequent re-appearances very well.
Um... couldn't the scobys just form SuperBuff and destroy Glory?
I believe that "the Key" is the one thing that can bring down Glory, Yep I think that those Monks where her worshipers, they don't want Glory to get the key, becouse they don't wish for Glory to kill herself. Yes Glory wishes to die, she's been around for so long she's not even sure she's a she. She hates her life and she wishes for it to end, and she's been trying to end herlife for sometime now getting lost in thee obsession of it.
The monks don't wish for their Deity to die, they been worshiping her forever, Who wants their god to die? The frog faced boys ofcourse That is why they are helping her.
Its just a question of what will happen
once she gets the key?
Will the world die with Glory? (no pund intened)
[This message has been edited by redsun (edited January 25, 2001).]
Hey there Nick, when I thanked Warduke for posting the pic, I forgot to thank you as well. Love your site, love the pics. Please, feel free to promote yourself.
I
agree with you about your comment on gods in mythology. In fact none of them are omnipotent, they all have "flaws", mainly the ones Xita named. (And you should give the Scandinavian gods a try, they can be pretty jealous and a bunch of fun, I tell ya).
------------------
"Hello, Tarasexual now!"
I briefly studied Norse, Greek and Roman mythology literally decades ago. Don't remember much.
Anyway, everyone thinks The Key has to open something. Does it? Maybe it has to lock something.
Or maybe I haven't been paying attention to all the dialog in the show.
-- Nick
great pics!
not only does willow have two hands on tara's knee but she has her leg under and in contact with tara's and as they sit and talk they lean into each other. By the end they're leaning on each other, that is arm to arm with no light between them, which is the way xander and anya usually sit but a first for willow and tara as far as I can recall.
Nice to see willow reach out and make that "mine" gesture, touching tara for support. their body language and looks towards each other were much more evident in this eppie
and the willow xander exchange at the end was also very nice.
Whilst I love you all individually and as a group, I have to say that my eyes are practically ABLAZE with flaming jealousy.
And that's it.
mutter mutter....bloody cool bloody monster fighter....grumble grumble....lesbians.....
Ahh ruth.
Yes TVsurfer, Willow and Tara usually sit so faraway from each other. It was refreshing to see their arms touching. And also they sat like that on the balcony thing. Tara's thigh again on top of Willow.
xita, are you having naughty fantasies involving tara's thighs again?
(hmm. perhaps i should watch my comments, after learning last night that you can never tell who might be reading these posts...)
LOL, you never know who might be reading. I never EVER think about about Amberthighs.
*waves to her girlfriend!
LOLOLOL
Yeah well, I learned the hard way about gf's reading posts made in w/t goodness...heh heh....
Still, as I always say, Amberthighs = a good thing.
quote:
Originally posted by xita:
Ahh ruth.
Don't you bloody aah ruth me, you fiend. It's all just a game isn't it? Until someone gets hurt.....
[This message has been edited by tommo (edited January 25, 2001).]
oh xita do you have yet another stalker? your gf this time? hehehee..thats exactly the reason im veryvery vague about this board to my gf. and that i refrain from stating certain...opinions regarding the buffy gals ^^;;
stalker? xita? xita doesn't have any stalkers...
Dammit! I'm not trying hard enough, then...
--D
Perhaps I'll start another message board/forum called:
The Xita, The Messages and The Sad Stalkers....
LOL Ruth, you are so funny
I said I would never go to another board, but I have already broken my word on that, so I would definetely come to your board. Are you a member of the counsil of the sad stalkers as well? If so what level are you? I just upgraded to level six. I am currently stalking 4 people here, it's a tough job, but someone has got to do it.
Btw, I am loving the image in my head of Tarathigh on top of Willow...
------------------
"Hello, Tarasexual now!"
[This message has been edited by Dr.G (edited January 25, 2001).]
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dr.G:
Are you a member of the counsil of the sad stalkers as well? If so what level are you? I just upgraded to level six. QUOTE]
What level am I? Uh....*shrugs*....level 8? I once got to level 8 in my
flute examinations, but I guess that's another story. And I haven't ever
been to bandcamp either, before you ask. In Britain, we don't have such
fripperies, we just stick kids up chimneys until they get too big to fit.
Trust me on that one.
I guess you mean Tara thigh? Or should that be Tara tied? Now that's a yummy thought.
Now I've got my faithfic out of the way (hurrah - a record! all done in just over a week) I can concentrate on....ahem.....w/t smoochies. Or not.
And I try never to stalk on a weeknight. I find it makes me grouchy the next morning.
Well I've edited that spelling error, I meant Tarathigh (one word, as in Willowhand), I will leave 'Tara tied' up to you. Fic, fic, hurrah! Can't wait for it...
So you play the flute, do ya? Well that conjurs up absolutely *no* naughty thoughts whatsoever.
------------------
"Hello, Tarasexual now!"
hmmm...this thread seems to no longer have anything to do with "checkpoint"...
so ruth, can i be a moderator on the new message board? i think you'll find that i have all the right qualifications...maybe we should ask amber if she wants to join.
yawn. i try not to stalk on weeknights either, but sometimes i just can't help myself. we stalkers have a hard life...
so dr g, who are the 4 people that you're stalking?
----------------
xita stalker #1
keeper of xita's naughty
chatting skills
keeper of the shared brain
keeper of xita's tendency
to say "dude!"
(lololol )
[This message has been edited by april (edited January 25, 2001).]
I'll try and get us back on topic
anyone notice in the last scene of this weeks eppie where buffy looks up to the balcony and notes "two very powerful witches", she is looking at straight at willow alone and the look willow gives buffy speaks volumes
these two characters are definitly connected
they may not sleep
together but they are soulmates for sure
Another thing in that final scene, watch Amber and Nick's reaction after Emma says "Willow's a witch?" It looks like they're both trying to stiffle laughter. I wonder if that was scripted.
[This message has been edited by Nouvelle (edited January 25, 2001).]
quote:
Originally posted by Dr.G:
I will leave 'Tara tied' up to you. Fic, fic, hurrah! Can't wait for it... [QUOTE]
Curse me and my promises! I only do it so people will talk to me y'know. I never follow through. Just ask my gf...heh heh...
[QUOTE]So you play the flute, do ya? Well that conjurs up absolutely *no* naughty thoughts whatsoever.
Um.....yes I do. I can play the Buffy theme on it (yes yes, I'm
sad, but it gets cold and lonely in Britain during the winter...). I make
quite a nice job of 'Close My Eyes' although I do tend to tear up halfway
through....
[This message has been edited by tommo (edited January 25, 2001).]
quote:
Originally posted by april:
hmmm...this thread seems to no longer have anything to do with "checkpoint"...
Your point being, April? That's the twisty turny way of the kitty board, surely?
quote:
so ruth, can i be a moderator on the new message board? i think you'll find that i have all the right qualifications...maybe we should ask amber if she wants to join.
Yes, I'm sure Amber would love to stalk xita. I'll slip her the url when I meet her at Nocturnal this year. Amongst other things. 'Hello', I'll say, stuttering and shifting nervously from foot to foot, 'Would you like to stalk a stalker?'
[This message has been edited by tommo (edited January 25, 2001).]
Oh, a stalker board
Again, I know nothing of such things, but I do like the feeling of being
followed
April, where's my keeper site ROFL, you guys killed me today.
TV surfer, I saw the look and mostly I saw fierceness. I agree Willow
and Buffy are connected for life but I wouldn't say soulmate at all. Trust
me (personal experience), don't use the word soulmate to a lesbian (if you
happen to be a woman) if you don't plan on putting out! It creates much confusion. Sides, Willow
has a soulmate... Tara.
Man the board is being weird. If this post also shows up twice or trice I'll try to delete it...
April the people I stalk here are Warduke, Shazza (though she doesn't
post much, so I mainly stalk her on Yahoo), Xita and of course
you...
Although, considering you and Xita share a brain, maybe I should
count the two of you as one...
Willow and Buffy are great friends indeed, and they love each other I'm
sure. But, like Xita said, Willow's soulmate is Tara (in my universe
anyway).
------------------
"Hello, Tarasexual now!"
quote:
Originally posted by xita:
Trust me (personal experience), don't use the word soulmate to a lesbian (if you happen to be a woman) if you don't plan on putting out! It creates much confusion. Sides, Willow has a soulmate... Tara.
Oh don't even go down the 'you're my lesbian soulmate' route....sigh...heard that one too many times....
Do you really think w/t are soulmates? I see the connection on all levels, really I do, but we don't know what is in store for them. I mean, SO's of the Scooby Gang never last forever....although Xander and Anya are keeping my hopes up for w/t.
And talk about putting out? I have never had a problem with that...heh heh
Actually, I do think they are soulmates. But I am a romantic. If I didn't think that, I couldn't be as invested. Joss may break my heart but that's what I believe.
quote:
Originally posted by tvsurfer:
these two characters are definitly connected
they may not sleep together but they are soulmates for sure
tvsurfer, I agree that w/b are connected in a very strong way. Remember that no Slayer has ever had friends before, Buffy reminds them of this in The Yoko Factor. So Buffy is the first Slayer ever to rely on her friends, breaking the 'rules' of the Watcher's Council, so to speak.
That connection between b/w is more enduring than a romantic one I think. It speaks volumes that they are still friends after everything that's happened.
They are not soulmates, no way, but they are something else, something that's perhaps better for them, in their own way.
quote:
Originally posted by xita:
Actually, I do think they are soulmates. But I am a romantic. If I didn't think that, I couldn't be as invested. Joss may break my heart but that's what I believe.
Yes you are a romantic xita, and you bring it out in all of us. Re: chat. Heh heh. NOT!
I think we are all invested in the relationship in some way, as w/t are too 'together' to be anything other than soulmates. Okay, I'm sold on that.
Besides, they share a cat. Nuff said.
I agree tommo the buffy willow connection is extremely strong. It was there from the moment they first laid eyes on each other at the water fountain. and buffy was the one to pursue it. willow and buffy clearly had a "destiny" from the way they were presented in that first eppie. Xander is part of the gang only because of his connection to willow.
Buffy does have a 6th sense when it comes to saving willow and willow provides buffy with total and unconditional acceptance and support. not to mention willow keeps buffy thinking and questioning. The two of them are the "central figures" with a real love for each other.
that love has been verbalized and demonstrated. buffy's immediate hunt
of veruka after willow told her of V&O's night together comes to mind
with the "comforting scene" after the werewolfs were quelled. similarly
willow would pursue a highly risky astro-projection type spell "if it
would help buffy" but as willow says she isn't just a sidekick. she is an equal and
helpmate while lesbians may have mutated the concept of "soulmates" into
something akin to life long lovers. The fact is that the concept of a
soulmate comes from a greek creationist story concerning how present day
man came about.
how powerful warlike creatures with two heads four arms and legs and
ambitions to over throw the gods, were divided to halve their power and
teach them a lesson not to defy the greek gods.
there were three types of these creatures male, female and the lesser
hermaphrodites
thus on division you got M when they were first halved they clung to themselves since they
couldn't be without their other self
The halved creatures numbers began dwindling since they couldn't
reproduce with the ground any more (they didn't originally reproduce as we
know it).
the die off left many without their soulmate so they would cling to any
other without a half (male or female) since they couldn't stand to be
alone/half
the dwindling number of worshippers worried the gods so they
"rearranged" the creatures bodies so they could proliferate and provide
the gods with worshipers.
so soulmates were originally one very strong warlike person who was
divided into two and the two halves of the whole remained together. the
two halves as soulmates had nothing to do with sex or sexual activity
JW has told us the first slayer was a great warrior and he has hinted
often of dualities and reuniting. we had two xanders this season and last
season we had the parts come together to remake the super powered whole
I see willow and buffy as two halves (human and warrior) of an
intelligent and creative whole
and its when they unite that they have the power of the original 2
headed 4 armed and legged creature to fight even the gods
(although that was a "dirty spell" according to JW
that willow obviously enjoyed
B&W would move mountains for each other.
and its their
relationship/respect for each other that sets the tone for the show
F
and M
and the 2 halves of the same creature were thus soulmates.
That whole thing you just posted is often used by lovers to describe their relationship. While I think that the B/W thing strong I think that Xander plays a large role in that. It's more of a triad. The three of them are tied together in ways that their SOs can and do seem to understand.
Also, people other than lesbians have assigned a romantic feeling to the word soulmate. The reason I said lesbian is that Willow is one. I wonder how she would describe her relationship to Buffy.
Tvsurfer, I know the story, ancient greek was one of my graduating classes. I enjoy greek mythology and philosophy. But what a soulmate is, is not edged in stone. It means something different to everyone. And we simply disagree...
*I* see Tara as the other half of Willow. I acknowledge and love the deep friendship she shares with Buffy, but to me a soulmate is the one you want to spend eternity with. I am convinced that for Willow that person is Tara. I don't 'just' see them as lifelong lovers, I see them together forever.
Editing to add:
Oh hehehe, Tvsurfer, I was wondering why you
put that barfy smiley and the other two there, I just realized you used a
colon and forgot to disable the smilies. But if you register you can edit
your posts. Like Bob said, it doesn't matter what computer you are on, you
don't even have to fill out any personal info if you don't want to. Also
you can have the fun experience of one day becoming a palm reader like
moi...(I'm a child at heart).
nevermind me, just editing on a whim here...
[This message has been edited by Dr.G (edited January 29, 2001).]
i gotta agree with ruth. cat sharing is definately a large symptom of lesbian soulmatehood.
not that i have any cats or anything. no, definately not like there are
3 cats at my apartment.....
I have to agree with Dr.G. I also see Tara as the other half of Willow, the soulmate who Willow will spend eternity with. Yes there is an extremely strong and special bond between Willow, Buffy and Xander, and as Xita said they are tied together in ways that they never could be with their SO's, and these ties will last a lifetime. However Willow and Tara's love will last forever.
while I don't doubt there is a different conotation for the term soulmate in todays world, and that both hetero, gay/lesbian couples today ascribe romantic meaning to it akin to life partners, I was pointing out that the term derives from a splitting of the self into two halves that exist in the same time/plane of reality and had no sexual connotations attached to it. Indeed the two xanders in one eppie this year were the only true soulmates that fit the greek story's definition of the word.
and while I think xander and giles are part of the core of scoobies, I see willow and buffy as the two that are the two. giles is a "SO" in a sense to buffy as X is to W
but its buffy and willow who form the essence of the relationship.
I don't doubt tara and willow are in love and that they may be life
partners nor do I doubt buffy and angel are life partners but I still see
willow and buffy as equal and distinct halves of a whole. and like the two
xanders of this years eppie the longer W&B hang out together the more
they rub off on / influence each other. willow is more assertive and
patrols and stakes vamps now. buffy is having serious intellectual
discussions with willow and they both have had similar experiences with
lovers of the "dangerous guy" kind
not to mention being burned at the
stake together etc etc
sorry, not sure whats happening with this unit I'm borrowing tonight but my post above seems to have added itself twice to the thread, once even before I had finished typing. since I no little to nothing of these internet things, and enter through multiple borrowed units, I beg your indulgance
Wait, but Willow thought that Xander and Buffy were the two who were the two. And Xander agreed.
Hey Tvsurfer, now worries with the doubles post, I am on it!
[This message has been edited by xita (edited January 27, 2001).]
Hi there! New here. I haven't been watching Buffy for long - I actually started because I'd been reading so much good f/f fanfic - but from what I've seen of the show, this was a tres cool ep.
It's also the first one watched with my Mom in the room. I had to explain things left and right (notably Dawn and Glory, but the Watchers too), but she still seemed duly impressed. (I'll have to ask her if she wants to watch again next time she's around for it.)
Anyhoo, glad to be jumping in here, you're a lot of fine folks from what I've read.
Kalita
Maquis operative and fanfic sponge
The transcript can be found at Psyche's site
Welcome Kalita
Tvsurfer, we will simply *never* agree on the soulmate issue. I believe
Tara is Willow's soulmate, not just because they are lovers. I see it in
every look and touch they give one other. They complement each other in
every way. The things you say about Buffy and Willow, could as easily be
applied to Willow and Tara. I am not trying to convince you to change your
mind or anything, but I feel very strongly about this and I need to say
this (for the last time I promise).
I believe a soulmate is the one
you'll spend eternity with. I don't believe that, after they've spent
their life together, Willow and Tara will kiss and say goodbye, so Willow
can spend eternity with Buffy. even if Tara were to die () or
leave, I will still believe she and Willow will be together *forever*, in
whatever form that may be.
And now for something completely different....
Okay this is one of the things the watcher counsil guy asked our witches:
"And you're registered as practicing witches under the names as you gave them to me?"
Then they lie to him and say that they are r-r-registered. Well, I was
wondering whether that was particularly smart of them. I am sure he will
check this out. Then what? Will there be a delegation of counsil witches
descending on them to whisk them away to witch school?
I know most of
you haven't read the Wheel of Time series, but I get this image in my
head, like when Aes Sedai are scouring villages to bundle up and take any
girl, that may be able to channel, to the White Tower.
I'm assuming
there won't be trouble for Willow and Tara as long as the Glory business
remains unsolved, so as not to antagonize Buffy. But after that, will
there be problems for Willow and Tara from this counsil of witches
(assuming it exists)?
End of ramble...nevermind me, continue what you were doing.
------------------
"Hello, Tarasexual now!"
It's our queen's birthday today (the 31st), isn't *that* interesting?
[This message has been edited by Dr.G (edited January 31, 2001).]
Damn, I wish we had the shooting script for this one
Just moving this thread back up to the top, cuz the posts have finally shown up.
xita, was that a sly hint to rayne? methinks it was...
Dr.G of course I agree with your very eloquent and passionate argument!
Now, this little thing about registration. I think they would get really curious about it and would want to find out their levels. Especially Willow. Willow would need to know how she faired against others.
April, are you still awake? GO TO BED! and that was just wishful
thinking
[This message has been edited by xita (edited January 31, 2001).]