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Research/Creative Help

This forum is for our fic authors to make their works-in-progress available for community beta-ing, from the initial ideas stage to the draft stage.

Research/Creative Help

Postby Trom DeGrey » Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:50 pm

Where can I find out what DEA stands for? Which side of the road do they drive on in Australia? When was the first motorcar made in England? When did Willow first meet Tara? What is the history of Wicca? Check your facts!!

You never know who’s going to read your work. If you get certain facts wrong they may jump right out and ruin the momentum of your story. This thread is about research. Why do it? Why does it make the story better?

Links to get you started:
http://www.google.com
http://www.dictionary.com
http://www.realmagick.com
http://www.wikipedia.org
http://www.sunsite.ubc.ca/LatinDictionary/

In addition, don't forget the amazing wealth of knowledge that can be found in the Kittendom. Have you done some research and still can't find an answer? ASK! Someone here may be able to answer your question or point you in the right direction.

This thread is a safe place to ask questions you may have as you work on your fic, and also for you to answer the questions others ask. Please feel free to ask or answer any questions. All questions should pertain to the W/T fic you're working on! Check out the other forums if you have other sorts of questions.

If you have questions about whether your fic will be okay to post here or on Pens, please get in touch with a moderator.
Last edited by Trom DeGrey on Mon May 23, 2005 7:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Research

Postby justin » Sat May 21, 2005 9:14 am

For researching the show, you can find transcripts from any episode here
http://members.lycos.co.uk/transcripdfs/buffy.html

Also you can find quite a lot of information on the show here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/buffy/
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Re: Research

Postby raspberryhat » Sat May 21, 2005 2:22 pm

There are some nice quizzes in the BBC site too :)
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Re: Research

Postby raspberryhat » Sat May 21, 2005 3:44 pm

Also, check out Latin Proverbs. Great (among other things) for titles inspiration.

I find reading about the origins of names helps me choose names for characters. There are lots of web sites. Try this site as an example. There are sites on all types of names in many languages/regions. Equally there are good books. I use the Oxford Dictionary of First Names quite frequently.
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Re: Research/Creative Help

Postby maudmac » Mon May 23, 2005 1:15 pm

Here's some more stuff that may be useful, including some of the most frequently asked questions and issues from the old Creative Help thread:

  • The correct spellings are:

    [blockquote]
    • W i l l o w R - o - s - e - n - b - e - r - g
    • T a r a M - a - c - l - a - y
    [/blockquote]
  • Tara:

    [blockquote]
    • The Kitten recognizes November 7th, 1980 as Tara's birthday. (Because the episode "Family" aired on November 7th.)
    • Parents: Mother died when Tara was 17. Father's first name unknown. Brother Donny and cousin Beth.
    • We know Tara isn't originally from Sunnydale, but it's never made clear exactly where she is from.
    [/blockquote]
  • Willow:

    [blockquote]
    • Birthday never mentioned on the show, but the UPN site used to say just 1982.
    • Parents: Mother Sheila, father Ira. No siblings.
    • Willow's middle name is Danielle. (From the "Bad Girls" shooting script.) (We don't seem to know Tara's middle name.)
    [/blockquote]


[hr]


You can use the Buffyverse DB to search for specific bits of dialogue from each episode.


[hr]


General fanfiction glossary. I swiped from there some of the terms you're most likely to encounter here at the Kitten:


alternate universe, AU, A/U
[blockquote]A story that takes place outside of canon.[/blockquote]

angst
[blockquote]Big painful emotional drama! It hurts, but it's also kind of delicious. Kittens love the angst.[/blockquote]

beta, betaread, beta-read
[blockquote]To edit and comment on someone else's work before it's finalized, taken presumably from the old software term "betatesting." Betareading brings a fresh perspective to a rough draft -- by the definition of the word, one cannot beta one's own work.[/blockquote]

betareader, beta-reader
[blockquote]Someone who edits your work upon your request (or bribe). You cannot be your own betareader, and unsolicited comments from readers after the story goes live do not count.[/blockquote]

canon
[blockquote]An adjective referring to a character, event, plotline, etc. which happened "for real" -- the actual professional source material, what was actually on the show. (For example, Willow and Tara are a "canon" couple, Buffy and Faith are not.)[/blockquote]

crossover
[blockquote]A story which straddles two (or more) different fandoms. (BtVS/Charmed, for example.)[/blockquote]

disclaimers
[blockquote]Information usually placed at the top of a fanfic. Disclaimers can include legal disclaimers (ie. who owns what in the story to follow), dedications, rating, plot summary, and various explanatory author's notes. (See here for more info about proper disclaimers for Pens fic.)[/blockquote]

original character
[blockquote]Any character who was created by a fanfic author, rather than being from the original canon material. Often abbreviated to "OC" or "oc."[/blockquote]

PWP
[blockquote]"Plot? What Plot?" or "Porn Without Plot" -- the nickname for a story which was written purely for the sake of smutty goodness.[/blockquote]

retcon
[blockquote]Short for "retroactive continuity," a retcon is a plotline wherein the writer decides to pretend that an existing plot happened differently than originally portrayed...or simply never existed/happened at all. A retcon is also the name for a plot written to replace and erase the original version. Retcon is also a verb -- to tamper with or wipe out previous ideas/plots is called "retconning." ("Seeing Red" has been well and goodly retconned on Pens.)[/blockquote]

'ship
[blockquote]Short for "relationship" -- uses to denote which pair of characters are romantically involved in a given story.[/blockquote]

'shipping
[blockquote]Short for "relationshipping" -- a 'shipper is someone devoted to a particular couple. (We're all W/T shippers.)[/blockquote]

smut
[blockquote]Porn! But in a light amused "yeah, gimme some of that" sort of way.[/blockquote]

songfic
[blockquote]A story based entirely around the lyrics of a song, usually using the lyrics to move the plot or underscore a character's thoughts or feelings.[/blockquote]

TBC
[blockquote]"To Be Continued." (A work-in-progress will typically have "TBC" at the bottom, to let the readers know that more updates are forthcoming.)[/blockquote]

vignette
[blockquote]A very short story dealing with a single brief period of time.[/blockquote]
[hr]
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Re: Research/Creative Help

Postby Trom DeGrey » Sun May 29, 2005 1:23 pm

I'm a total freak when it comes to naming original characters. Every name has a meaning for me. There are a lot of baby naming sites out there and some of them are a total pain to use. Here are some that I like and some that are off the beaten path:

Parenthood Baby Names
Baby Names Plus
123 Baby Names
Names of Ireland
Hebrew Names
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Educational Systems

Postby raspberryhat » Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:10 am

About difference educational systems. Here an excellent summary kindly penned by Verdant. I thought it would be good to carry this on in Research rather than in Having Doubts where it started.

the basics.

"Elementary school" (also called "grade school" or "primary") is kindergarten (age 4/5), 1st grade (age 6) on up to 6th grade (age 11 or 12) You will often see this abbreviated as K-6 or K-whatever grade the school goes to.

"Middle school" (or "junior high") is 7th and 8th grade (sometimes includes 6th and/or 9th grade)

"High school" is most often 9th grade through 12th grade. Most of us graduate 12th grade at age 17 or 18 and sometimes 19. This is also called "secondary" school - but only by educators and adults -- never by the kids attending.

Within high school:
grade 9 = freshman
grade 10 = sophomore
grade 11 = junior
grade 12 = senior

The whole Scooby gang were sophomores in Season 1.

We call all university level work -- college. The same 4 distinctions (freshman through senior) are used again to designate progress in college.

"School" is a very broad inclusive term that covers all grades, college, trade schools, traffic school, or a one-off instruction class taken through a learning center. It's also used informally as a verb form for "teach." As in -- I'll school you in the ways of American English.


Perhaps Cosmic Dancer would be kind enough to follow up with some points on the UK system. I'd find it useful. I am too long out of it... :-D
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Re: Research/Creative Help

Postby raspberryhat » Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:12 am

I have a question then.

How common is it for US degrees to allow a year out for work experience? If this does happen, does it take place towards the beginning or end of the degree? Or does it just vary from place to place?

Thanks...
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Re: Research/Creative Help

Postby Hemiola » Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:25 pm

Um...this info may be a little outdated, since my graduate/undergraduate degrees are from the ''70s, but I don't think that things have changed all that much.

Generally, the answer is no. You are expected to complete your degree before getting a "real" job. Of course, there are such things as "internships", which are menial, low-salaried (and sometimes non-salaried :happy ) positions that can be taken during the summer intervals, or sometimes part-time during the school year, which are meant to provide a sort of "work experience" for the interested student. If the internship was at a big or important company in the student's chosen field (such as a big advertising agency, if one desires to go into this field), the internship is often included on a resume.

Once the degree is obtained, then the aspirant is pretty much on their own as far as finding a job is concerned, with some exceptions. Some large companies actively "recruit" the top graduates in certain fields (law, accounting, etc.) Someone going into the medical field with the appropriate degree will usually find a job at a hospital or other medical provider. Those who had ROTC ("Reserve Officers Training Corp") courses often enter the military as junior officers (I remember a French acquaintance of mine being horrified that such courses exist at American universities; I don't think they have them in England either).

So, the basic answer is: ya gotta get that sheepskin first! :lol
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Re: Research/Creative Help

Postby cosmic dancer » Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:54 pm

As requested by rasperryhat, here are some details about the English education system.

We number years from year 1 to year 11, with most kids doing a reception year, before year 1, starting in the term in which they will turn 5. At the start of year 1 all pupils are age 5.

Years 1 to 6 are at primary school. Some larger schools separate this into infants (reception & years 1& 2) and juniors (years 3 to 6), and these may be in separate buildings. Smaller schools tend to have all these years in one building.

Pupils transfer to secondary school when they are 11, and enter there as year 7's. Year 7 to 9 are often called 'lower school' and 10 & 11 'upper school'. Pupils can leave full time education at age 16 at the end of year 11, but are strongly encouraged to do another 2 years and leave at 18.

Pupils sit external exams at the end of years 6, 9 ands 11. The year 6 & 9 exams are in English, Maths and Science only. As we follow a national curriculum which is basically the same in every school, all pupils sit identical exams, and results can be compared across the country.

In years 10 & 11 pupils study for G.C.S.E.'s (general certificate of secondary education). Englich, Maths and Science are compulsory and most pupils also continue to study R.E. (religious education). Pupils generally take between 8 and 10 GSCE's depending on their ability (with 2 in English - English language & English literature) and 2 or 3 in Science. They can chose the rest of the courses they study. How much choice they have varies from school to school.

If pupils continue to years 12 & 13, they may resit GCSE courses, study vocational courses, or do AS & A2 courses (advanced level). Pupils are encouraged to start 4 AS courses in year 12 (some do 5), but most drop 1 or 2 of these after AS exams in the summer of year 12, and do less subjects for their A2 exams in year 13.

University entrance in generally based on a mixture of GCSE & AS grades, teacher predictions of A2 gradeas and a reference form the school on the suitability of the pupil to their chosen course. Puils also have to write a personal statment explaining why they have chosen their course and giving more info about their hobbies, jobs, relevant work experience etc, Some university's interveiw pupils, or make them sit their own aptitude tests.

Our school and uni years start in September and schools run through till around mid / late July. Unis start later and finish earlier. Is this the same in the States?

I hope is helpful / interesting for people outside England. May be other people would like to expailn about about the school system in their countries? If you would like to know any more, please ask either here or by P.M. :-D
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More on American school system

Postby Verdant » Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:17 pm



This is a more detailed explanation of American education for the benefit of non-American W/T fanfic writers (and the Americans too, as not all of us have attended, will attend, or even care to attend all the levels of education that are out there).

Since the whole of BTVS takes place while the characters are in high school and college—I'll focus on that and try to tie it into the canon of the show and practical application for W/T fic.

I speak primarily from my own experience in and around the American educational system. I attended the standard 12 years of public education (in the States public means government funded and mandatory unless you are rich enough to go to private school). I later attended 2 years of junior college (explained below) and 5 years of university (which resulted in a Master’s degree for those of you doing the math and presupposing that I’m just really slow :-D ). I also worked for the California Department of Education and have many relatives working in education. Enough about my cred.

There is not much to add about high school from what is posted above. Other than it’s generally the first time you get a choice in your own curriculum. There are a certain number of compulsory core classes that are based on your grade and skill level. When you don’t have the skill level to meet the compulsory class you are sent to remedial class. This would be what Willow is saving Percy from in Season 3.

In addition to the compulsory classes (math, English, science, physical education, etc.) there are a number of electives you can take based on interest. Willow would take electives like calculus and physics, while Xander would be taking electives like wood shop and pray he didn’t cut his fingers off.

High school is sometimes the first appearance of the universal letter grade for progress reports. Prior to high school they use some politically sensitive language like “needs improvement.” Here they just grade you A (outstanding, above and beyond), B (really solid work), C (completely average), D (below average and ready to…), F (fail). But you can pass and advance with a D and many do. Willow is what we call a "straight-A student." She's never gotten less than an A and would be mortified if she did.

At age 16 you are no longer obligated by the government to continue your education. You may opt to drop out at which time you will become socially stigmatized as a "high school drop-out." This title is usually said in a way as to be synonymous with "total loser" unless it’s uttered in admiration of all said drop-out has accomplished in spite of this deficiency. When dropping out you have the option of passing a standardized test called a GED (general education diploma). Your GED is supposed to be as good as a regular diploma. But for many snobby employers, it’s actually not. If you drop out and DON’T pass the GED you are doubly screwed. (Please note: I am reflecting a general societal attitude here. Personally, I don’t think school is for everyone and I know many fine high school drop-out individuals who are brilliantly self-educated, or comfortably working class and have led better lives for having told the establishment to "go stick it." But in general, not graduating high school will do you more harm than good when it comes to the job market later in life.)

But for the purpose of W/T fanfic, all the core characters actually graduated. See last ep of season 3 for Oz’s summary of said fact while standing in front of the backdrop of the burning remains of Sunnydale High.

College (or Uni as the Brits call it) has many of the same outward trappings of high school (freshman through senior, letter grades, core classes, electives) but is a much different emotional space and puts much more responsibility on the student.

The biggest differences from high school besides emotional maturity, are 1) you have to pay for college (books, tuition, fees, etc.) and 2) it’s not legally compulsory (family and societal pressure is a different matter). The socioeconomic class divides becomes even more pronounced in college as many working class kids leave their friends behind and the friends feel left behind (see Xander in season 4).

For the purposes of BTVS—Xander never had a chance at college because his family has no money and he has no chance at a sports or academic scholarship.

Willow is automatically assumed to go because of her middle-class money and super-genius brains that will garner her a "full ride" (all of your expenses paid). Super-genius students raise the profile of the college and improve their chances at pulling in grant money and more super-genius students and super-genius professors and more grant money and…see the cycle here?

Buffy is an average student (maybe a bit below average due to extenuating circumstances) and eventually drops out of college. Please note—dropping out of college does not carry the same social stigma as dropping out of high school. In fact, just going to some amount of college, is considered admirable. There are many employment applications that list “some college” as a checkbox for how much education has been completed. This is mostly likely the box Buffy checked when applying for the Doublemeat Palace.

There are a couple of different levels of college:

Junior or Community College (JC ) is a 2 year institution that offers an Associate in Arts (A.A.) degree. The Junior (or Community) College system was founded to provide education to interested parties who may already have degrees, or who cannot afford Universites (4-year colleges) but still want to learn about various subjects. I used my JC to knock out all my general education requirements at a much reduced rate while still getting free rent from my family. There tends to be a much more diverse student body in JC's due to accesiblily, age, and socio-economic reasons.

University or 4-year colleges usually offer Bachelor's and Master's degrees and sometimes Doctorates (explained below).

Universities are divided as well. Public universities (or State schools) are funded largly by the state they reside in and are considered lesser to private universites. There is a loosly affiliated grouping of very expensive, very quality private universities that make up what is called the "ivy league" of colleges in the US. They usually take an enourmous amount of money and influence, or amazing super-genius smarts to get into. Google "ivy leauge" for specifics. Harvard and Yale are the most well known of these. These are all the colleges Willow could have had her pick of.

Within California there are 3 levels of universities.

The least expensive (and some would argue - least academically stringent) are the State schools. These are all California State University of [xx city] and abreviated CSU. Currently CSU system schools are about $3000 per year for tuition.

The next level up are also state funded but more expensive and more academically stringent. These are all University of California at [xx city] and abreviated UC [city name]. UC Sunnydale is a fictional version of one of these. UC Los Angeles and UC Davis are more well known real life examples. About $12,000 per year.

The third level are the private schools that may or may not be the best of the best, but certainly present themselves as such. About $22,000 per year.


Coursework:

The first four years you are working for a Bachelor’s degree. Depending on your area of study it will be a Bachelor’s of Art (B.A.) — English, Art, Humanities, Liberal Arts, Theater, etc.; or a Bachelor’s of Science (B.S.) — hard sciences like biology, chemistry, computer science, and social sciences like social work, psychology, anthropology. In the education parlance college work is also called post-secondary. Any degree above a Bachelor’s—a Master’s (M.A.) or a Doctorate (Ph.D.) is called a higher degree or post-graduate. Although it’s never explicitly stated, it’s a safe assumption that Willow is working on a B.S., Tara most likely on a B.A.

Once enrolled in college you pick a major. This is your concentration of study. If you are super-smart (or think you are) you can often design your own major (which is what Willow does). Your major largely determines who you will be spending the next few years studying with, arguing with, envying, feeling superior to, and generally hanging out with.

There will be core requirements for your major. You must take a certain number of mandatory classes. Each class is worth a certain number of units (usually 3 or 4). You need a total number of units to graduate. A certain number of those must be in your major field, a certain number must be spread about in general education. Different colleges will have slightly different requirements for all this.

Here’s a rough example:
160 units total to graduate.
30 units of required major classes
30 more units of major classes you pick from whatever is available to your interest
15 units in specific other areas (humanities, history, science, social science, etc).
20 units of electives
65 units general education (if you’ve declared a minor, the 18 or so units to complete the minor will sometimes come from this pool, sometimes from the electives, sometimes in addition to all this)

You also have the option of picking a minor. This is concentrates your non-major courswork into another subject. Or you can choose to forgo a minor and spread those units around a bit. (I took a bunch of classes I thought would be interesting so that as a writer later on I would have a small foundation to start with on a variety of subjects. But I had many in my cohort that majored in English and minored in humanities or art.)

A note about semesters v. quarters. American colleges use two different systems of breaking up the year (again this varies slightly between institutions):

Semesters—two 16-week sessions per year with an accelerated summer session (8 weeks) and sometimes a super-accelerated winter session (2 weeks). Class usually meets on Tuesdays and Thursdays (T-Th) for 90 minutes, or Monday, Wednesday, Friday (M-W-F) for 60 minutes.

Quarters—three 10- or 11-week sessions per year with a slightly more relaxed summer session (8 to 10 weeks).

University of Sunnydale is on the semester system.

Two major exams on which your class grade largely rest are midterms, given about 8 weeks into the semester, and finals given at the end of the semester. These are nerve wracking weeks of hell. Midterms can be spread out a bit depending on the professor’s schedule, but finals are all in the same week.

There are many social conventions in American college that vary between institutions. But universally this is the age that most young students first start experimenting with sex and drugs. Primarily, drinking loads of alcohol, having sex with relative strangers, experimenting with bisexuality, or just busting out of the confines of their small town, small minds and coming out as gay. Colleges often have great support groups for anything you could possibly be interested in.

If you have any questions on any of this post-em.
Last edited by Verdant on Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Research/Creative Help

Postby cosmic dancer » Mon Jun 27, 2005 12:48 pm

Thanks for that Verdant, that's helped me lots. :bow

I have a question now, in America do pupils get to see a careers advisor, or someone like that, who can help show them what options they have when they leave school? This seems to be done in most English schools, and I was basing my first chapter around the assumption that this is true for US schools too. If I'm wrong I could look rather silly. :blush

I can rewite the chapter (most is still only in note form anyway) with Tara getting advice from a friend instead if necessary. I do want to get this right!

BTW my fic now has a working title 'listen with your heart'. :flower There is a reason for the title, but I'm not saying what it is yet!
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Re: Research/Creative Help

Postby Hemiola » Mon Jun 27, 2005 1:44 pm

There are Career/College counselors in US high schools.

In colleges, the assumption is that students will pursue careers in their "majors" (=principal field of study). Sometimes particularly brilliant students are sought out and "recruited" by firms or other institutions.
(see my post above)
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Re: University admissions

Postby Verdant » Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:25 am

I've seen some discussion around the Beta Pens regarding confusion over admissions policies.

The snarky answer is "take a ticket and stand in line." Every student has to jump through this maze of rules, regulations, excpetions, and exemptions. Admissions policies are different for every school and have excpetions to every rule depending on if you've attended other colleges elsewhere, where you're from, who's your daddy, and how good your grades are.

For some concrete help -- look at my post above and figure out which type of college you want your character to attend then find a similar one on the net and copy their admissions policies.

If you are using UC Sunnydale copy UC Davis or UC Irvine.

If you are inventing a college determine whether it's a JC, a state university, or a private university and find a model on the internet to copy.

And for the record -- great SAT scores don't carry as much weight as you are led to believe in high school.
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Re: Research/Creative Help

Postby cosmic dancer » Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:27 pm

Thanks Hemiola :-D

I'm glad that my first chapter wont seem utterly wrong to someone from the US. Would a careers advisor be able to point her in the right direction for admissions i.e. things to read in the school library (or careers library) or web sites to look at? Please bear in mind that in my fic I'm assuming that Tara would not have seriously considred applying (even though she got high SAT scores) due to pressure from her Dad, and may have been told she should have a careers interview by a concerned teacher who thought she should apply. Her Dad wants her to stay at home to look after him & Donny and thinks that a secretarial course would be more suitable for her. I'll def want to get this first chapter (and proably a few after) checked, either generally in Beta pens or by an American beta, before posting in diff coloured pens.

Also thanks again to Verdant, all this info is really helping me. :applause

I'd found some info about American uni admissions on the interent, but haven't studied any specific uni in detail yet. Knowing which to focus on as models for Sunnydale will help. I was also interested that different places may have very different admissions policies. This is totally different to in the UK, where you basically fill out one form with 6 choices on, which goes to a central place for all uni admissions and that's it!

I also thought that SAT levels were all important in terms of application, as the high school diplomas vary so much. (I think I read somewhere that you may have to write some kind of essay too as part of uni admissions, is this correct?) I was considering having Tara sit SATII exams in her major, and poss one or two other subjects, If she is said to have scored highly on these too, would this help even if she is applying secretly and has no support from her Dad?

I'm really enjoying doing all this research and drafting, I've never done any thing like this before and I'm currently really enthusiastic about it. :bounce I just hope that my finished product isn't dire!
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Re: Research/Creative Help

Postby Verdant » Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:29 pm

High SAT scores will give you an edge on college admissions, but there are many factors involved in being accepted. The American public school system (K-12) puts a lot of emphasis on standardized tests -- to the point that a block of time out of each year is spent studying for the test.

There is a very political aspect to this practice that is debated by educators and government officials. Detractors feel that standardized testing eliminates any concern for individual learning styles and takes a "cookie-cutter" approach to education. Proponents feel there has to be some way to measure performance and progress of the students and the schools.

My point in bringing this up is that American school children are indoctrinated into believing in the validity and importance of standardized tests from an early age. SATs are the final standardized test you take before going on to college. So as high school students, the Scooby gang rightly put a lot of emphasis on their SAT scores. It's also one more way that teenagers compete with each other.

The SAT is an optional test. Look up SATs on the internet to get more specifics about this test. You don't have to take it. It serves a a guide to your future education, not a rule.

College admissions officers look at your overall grade point average (GPA) from your high school work, your SAT scores (if you have them), GPA from other college work, whether you were in extra-curricular groups and what your role in them was, and often there is an essay component usually called a "personal statement." The personal statement is more common for higher degree applications and law school. I've helped three different friends write them now. Including one who bombed the SATs but went on to get a full ride for a PhD program at a good school -- because she's very smart and demonstrated that with her grades during her BS work and the work she's done with community projects.

Personal statements are all about how you would be an asset to the school, how the school has something unique to offer your particular course of study that you can't find anywhere else. If you can drop names of professors that you know and kiss @$$, even better. Sometimes smart people who are interested in areas of study that the university wants to expand will get admitted to help build up that department. For example: Tara could be an expert herbalist or have a knowledge and interest in comparitve religions. The school she's applying for may be trying to build up an herbalist program that they need more students for.

But I'm not making it up about "who's your daddy." When it comes to admissions sometimes really awful students can get in to really great schools because they are "connected." One need only look at the current President of the US to see how that works. The fact that a man who cannot make his subjects and verbs agree has an MBA from Yale is a testament to this.

I'm not sure what you mean by SATII exams.

Most undergraduate (BA/BS) degrees do not require a big final standardized test to graduate. You just have to fulfill the requirements of your major and pass all your classes. When you get into higher degrees (MA/PhD) you have to write a thesis or dissertation respectively. Sometimes they substitute a big standardized test for the thesis. But for your PhD you will almost always have to sit before a panel and take extensive oral exams, get grilled six ways from Sunday about your material and prove yourself over and over. It's grueling and nervewracking, and sometimes demoralizing, but by the end of it, there is no doubt you know what you are talking about.

But to answer your question directly -- a high SAT score would absolutely help Tara get into college. As would good grades and sheer persistence. She'd also have to figure out a way to get the application fee--about $80 for a standard university, more for private school. The fee is sometimes waived for underprivileged (poor) students. Tara would probably be sly enough to apply for scholarships without her dad knowing about it. A scholarship or grant is about the only explanation for how she is able to be living in the dorms at UC Sunnydale.

Glad you are enjoying the research aspect of writing. Research will break writers block and take your story in a direction you may not have thought of before. It can also save you from looking like a complete fool.
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Re: Research/Creative Help

Postby Hemiola » Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:54 am

My pleasure, cosmic dancer. :)

As far as "career advisors" are concerned, the answer is yes, American high schools do indeed have "Guidance Counselors" who can help direct students to schools and/or literature about careers (a personal example: it was a Guidance Counselor who informed me that the US government publishes all kinds of pamplets with titles like "How to Start and Manage Your Own Business"). These counselors often look at a student's grades and offer suggestions as to the appropriate kind of school. For example, a student with low grades might be directed to a "Community" college (=a 2-year college) , while a student with outstanding grades (such as Tara;) ) would be directed to a quality 4-year college.

Tara's major--while Verdant's idea about herbalism is a good one, the "canonical" show implied that her principal field of study was art and art history. I've always imagined her writing an essay on something like "Homoeroticism in the art of the 16th and 17th Centuries" :-D .
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Re: Research/Creative Help

Postby cosmic dancer » Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:48 pm

Thanks again to both Verdant and Hemiola; I'm really appreciating all the support you’re giving me. :dance

I'm aware that many standardized tests exist in the US e.g. SAT (Scholastic Aptitude Test), ACT test, GRE (Graduate Record Examination), and GMAT (Graduate Management Admission Test). I've focused my attention on SAT's as this is what they talk about in the canon. I read about SATII on a website a few weeks back, and have since found out that it now has a new name. I’ve downloaded the following today from www.collegeboard.com:

‘Subject Tests (formerly SAT II: Subject Tests) are a battery of one-hour, mostly multiple-choice tests that are designed to measure students' knowledge and skills in particular subject areas, as well as their ability to apply that knowledge. Students take the Subject Tests to demonstrate to colleges their mastery of specific subjects like English, history, mathematics, science, and language. The tests are independent of any particular textbook or method of instruction. The tests' content evolves to reflect current trends in high school curricula, but the types of questions change little from year to year. Many colleges use the Subject Tests for admission, for course placement, and to advise students about course selection. Some colleges specify the Subject Tests they require for admission or placement; others allow applicants to choose which tests to take. Subject Tests fall into five general subject areas: English, Languages, Mathematics, sciences, history & social studies’

There is lots more info on SATs on that website, including practise questions if anyone is brave enough to try them!

With regards Tara's major, I've had a few thoughts, but nothing is finalized yet. Clearly she has to be more arts than science, but I could see her studying Literature (especially poetry) or possibly social sciences as much as art as is implied in the canon. I like the idea of Tara wanting to write and illustrate books. It is a dream she could have had for years, but never spoken of. I’m not sure what sort of books she would be thinking of though? My initial thought was children’s books, but this does not quite feel right. What do other people think? If she was brave enough to utter her idea to a guidance counselor, it would help guide her choice of uni and course selection (for a four year course due to her high SAT score and high GPA). I'm I starting to sound anywhere close to American yet?! :lol

Hemiola when you say ‘I've always imagined her writing an essay on something like "Homoeroticism in the art of the 16th and 17th Centuries"’, do you mean once at uni or as part of the application process?

I also like the idea of her studying herbalism; maybe she could do that as an elective. It could be a factor in helping her select Sunnydale over other unis if it is taught there and not at other suitable places. I doubt it would be taught at school, and if most people carry their school major through to college then it wouldn’t work as her major.

Ummm… :hmm....It has given me another idea of how Tara could meet Willow though. I’ve had a few ideas, but none I’m completely happy with. I’m trying to avoid being too close to cannon, although I may borrow a few concepts from there and re-work them to suit my version of events. I want to use my own ideas as much as poss, just eventually using S4 locations & characters to make life a little easier for a first fic! :-D
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Re: Research/Creative Help

Postby Hemiola » Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:52 pm

Hi cosmic dancer :wave

My thought is that she would write the essay as part of art history class at UC Sunnydale.:)
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Re: Research/Creative Help

Postby Sn0wflak3 » Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:57 pm

Well :bigwave there cosmic dancer

IMO, I could really see Tara writing/illustrating childrens books- from the way she interacted with Dawn, i got the impression that she'd be really good with kids... and because of her interest in art, it wouldn't really be that big a jump to writing a kid's book.

I'd recommend reading : The Game Of Love. Yes, another long fic... but, wow.. plus it has Tara being very involved with kids. Also, Neverland is quite detailed with Tara and art.. as i remember.. (another "wow" fic...)

Bye for now!

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Re: Research/Creative Help

Postby cosmic dancer » Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:09 am

Thanks for the clarification Hemioloa. Depending on how the fic develops, may be I'll write that idea in. It's now recorded in my ideas notebook, with your name against it! :-D

Sn0wflak3, I think you may have recommended both of these before. I think I've read the start of Neverland, but as you know, long fics, even with strong recommendation, can be quite off putting to a new reader. It's lots of reading, but hopefully enjoyable. I'll have a go in the summer. Now I'm more familiar with the way the board works, I also enjoy reading other peoples feedback / comments more, initially this also confused me. :hmm

Thanks for your opinion on Tara's possible dream job. If I run with this I'll probably have her major in Art (linking to the canon), but doing in a minor in suitable English based modules / units. When I've doen more research on what unis offer, I'll have a better idea of what she could consider. I may also write in Verdants idea of module(s) in herbology! These sort of ideas / feedback are very helpful to new writers. Thanks. :applause

Unfortunatly this is me now - :buried so I'd better come off line and try and deal with it!
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Re: Research/Creative Help

Postby Sn0wflak3 » Sat Jul 02, 2005 5:08 pm

Read woman! READ!!!! Print chapters out, and read them in ur lunch break... after the marking of course :P
...you know i'll bug ya until you do! :-D
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Re: Research/Creative Help

Postby raspberryhat » Sun Jul 03, 2005 2:35 pm

I agree, we were given hints towards Tara's interest in the History of Art.

I always imagined her as a talented artist also.

If we're talking about illustration, imagine what she might come up with to illustrate a great sweeping epic like LoTR? I imagine Tara delving very deep into herself and producing some very interesting results.

I experimented with illustrating (excuse the pun) Tara's PoV through her art in a story once and sort of surprised myself with what came out. I don't often get that character-writing-themselves feeling, but for what it's worth it felt like it then. Wouldn't you know it? She came out as a cubist.
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Re: Research/Creative Help

Postby cosmic dancer » Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:33 pm

As a non-artist, I'm not totally sure that I know waht a cubist is! :hmm I think any descriptions I use of her as an artist will be fairly basic.

I like the idea of Tara writing and drawing as a way to escape reality. Most people accept, i think, that Tara came from an abusive home. I don't have any intention of writng abuse scenes, but I could show that she developed her skills initially to create a better place for her to live; her own fantasy land if you like. At first, when she was maybe quite young, doing it as a job was proably never considered, this idea may only have grown over time, possibly after someone else suggested it?

Using the idea of LotR might work, or if you go younger, possibly the Narnia books of C.S. Lewis (are these read in the states?). For her the idea of being able to escape through a wardrobe into a world she has created could be very theraputic. Certainly for me, there should be an aspect of fantasy in there somewhere.
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Re: Research/Creative Help

Postby FineyMcFine » Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:03 pm

Hey folks - I have a research-type question for any computer hackers out there. (Go figure, one of the characters in a fic I'm working on is a computer hacker.)

When a hacker would, you know, hack into a private database to find out someone's name, phone number, whatever - how exactly would a hacker go about that?

Specifically, I'm writing a sentence that says "Not that it hasn't been hard not to whip out the ol' C++ and find all that out."

Anyway, I have no idea if saying 'C++' is correct. I know it's a programming language, but I'm coming to realize that I don't know much or anything about how hackers hack.

Can anyone let me know if there's a better thing to say than C++? And if I'm on the total wrong track with how that sentence is set up, then feel free to tell me that also. :)
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Re: Research/Creative Help

Postby dmw » Sat Jul 16, 2005 5:17 pm

SallyMcFine wrote:When a hacker would, you know, hack into a private database to find out someone's name, phone number, whatever - how exactly would a hacker go about that?

Specifically, I'm writing a sentence that says "Not that it hasn't been hard not to whip out the ol' C++ and find all that out."


It's good to see someone doing some research on this subject, as almost every movie and book gets this wrong. You're right; that sentence wouldn't make much sense. It's good

A hacker first needs to find an entry point into the system. Just as a burglar won't attempt to get through your front door if there's an easier way in, a hacker will look for entry points beyond the obvious one that asks for a username and password. There's a lot going on at the lower levels of the network that can be exploited. One common way of looking for such entry points is port scanning and the most popular port-scanning tool is nmap. Nmap was used in The Matrix Reloaded in perhaps the only accurate hacking portrayal in a movie.

Once you've found an entry point, you need to find a vulnerability to exploit that will let you into the system. Automatic vulnerability scanners like nessus search for well-known published vulnerabilities, but a skilled hacker like Willow can analyze a system to find new vulnerabilities.

Most vulnerabilities work by the attacker constructing an input that the software designer wasn't expecting. It could be something as simple as altering part of a web cookie to claim that you're another user (session spoofing) or sending the application too much input so that it overwrites security sensitive data in what's called a buffer overflow attack. There are special web proxy servers designed to help you to test your web site for vulnerabilites like these. One is called the SPIKE Proxy Server.
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Re: Research/Creative Help

Postby FineyMcFine » Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:25 am

Thanks, this is helpful. Sounds like if most people get this wrong, and the Matrix is the only movie that ever got it right, it might actually add more confusion to write a sentence that says "Not that it hasn't been hard for me to not whip out the ole nmap, but I resist." (Not to mention that that is the most awkwardly written sentence EVER, heh.) Probably best in this instance for me to not even refer to specifics, since the hacking is only mentioned in one sentence, and is not a point that I plan to go into a lot of detail about.

Thank you!
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Re: Research/Creative Help

Postby cosmic dancer » Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:48 pm

Hey :wave

I posted on this thread a while back saying I was working on a fic and a number of people have already very kindly assisted my research. I’m now asking for help again.

To recap, the initial premise for my writing was wondering how Tara came to be at UC Sunnydale in the first place. Her appalling home life is alluded to in the show, and from that I’ve guessed that she must have ran away, hence wondering how they’d found her in ‘family’. This then got me thinking.

As a Brit who has never even been to the States, what I knew initially about the education system out there came purely from watching shows like BtVS. I’ve enjoyed researching the system and seeing exactly how different it is to the U.K. one.

From my research I’ve developed what I hope is a feasible ‘time line’ for Tara’s college applications, and how she could have accessed the necessary funding. My original plan was to post all the chapters with Tara’s application here on Beta Pens to get it checked before posting on DCP. However, as I’ve worked on outline drafting I’ve seen that it’s likely to go across a significant number of chapters (as I’m writing other events in too, to build more detail into my version of her home life) and so this idea no longer seems sensible. (I may still post the first one or two chapters here for reassurance though.) I don’t intend to put lots of detail of tests and college application as, even with research, I know I wouldn’t get it right, but I do at least want to be able to sequence things properly. Also I already have some ideas of plot lines for when Tara has reached UC Sunnydale, so I don’t want to spend too long on how she could have got there!

It’s obvious that Tara must have had help with her application, so I’ve invented a few characters that will support her in different ways. I don’t intend to go into details of them here now, but rest assured Tara isn’t suddenly going to have tons of friends to help her (I don’t want to make her life too easy, I’m into angst!), but I think that she does needs 1 or 2 key people to make her application possible.

So what follows is my ‘time line’ for Tara’s college application, where relevant with my ideas for how Tara could manage to achieve that stage.

*****
May or June of junior year at high school – Tara sits SAT reasoning tests (her school makes everyone do this to give an external indicator of what type of colleges might accept them. Most pupils resit them in their senior year to increase their score)

Near end of junior year - Tara sees guidance counsellor (again something her particular school makes everyone do at this stage of high school to help them plan their futures) & starts thinking about college applications, even though her Dad will not allow her to go.

During summer holiday (is it called this in the States?) – Tara makes choices of which colleges to apply to with help from a couple of my own characters. She also starts drafting her personal statement & working on scholarship application(s)

Start of senior year – Tara asks the guidance counsellor and her art teacher (‘cos she’s going to major in art) to help check her personal statement and seeks their support in making scholarship application(s)

Early November Tara files applications for colleges including UC Sunnydale. One of my new characters (a non-family adult) will pay for each application (why this person would do this will, I hope, be apparent when people read the fic itself). Any postal correspondence will go through this person’s house, since clearly nothing could go to Tara’s house as her Dad must not know she is applying.

Early November Tara sits 2 or 3 SAT subject tests as required for her college applications (my research shows the colleges in California usually like people to have sat a two of theses in relevant subjects) and resists SAT reasoning tests hoping to increase her already high scores.

1st Jan (or very soon after that) – Tara files FAFSA to find out how much aid she is eligible for. I believe it is essential for her to do this to receive any financial support at all i.e. loans, grants or scholarships. I also believe that she would class as a ‘dependant student’ and so lots of information on her parents and their financial position would have to be filled in. I think this is probably Tara’s biggest hurdle by far in terms of getting college funding.

The easiest way round this is just to imply the form was filed and give no details as to how she managed it. I may well do that, but I have been trying to think what her actual options would be. The only remotely honest way I can think of would be for Tara to find the info on her Dad that she needs, either by old fashioned searching of the house while he’s out, or cheating and using magic (she is a witch after all :p ) to speed up the search (would this be classed as magic for personal gain and hence wrong though?). She could then fill in the form correctly and forge her Dad’s signature. Tara could probably do this without her Dads knowledge. The catch is of course that her Dad would never give her the ‘family contribution’ the state believes he can afford, so unless he is genuinely on such a low wage that the contribution would be zero or minimal she would be in financial trouble right from the start.

All the other options I’ve considered involve big lies somewhere e.g. saying both her parents are dead, or using someone else’s financial details (the adult who’s been helping her) and hope no one spots that it’s clearly fraudulent. For either of these options the form could somehow be ‘bewitched’ by Tara so whoever checks the form believes the details to be correct and passes the application as submitted without question or further checks. Again though is this an unacceptable use of magic?

Early Jan (after filing FAFSA if the scholarship deadline will allow it, as she’ll get more money that way) – Tara sends off an application for scholarships to places including one for an Art scholarship to UC Sunnydale (which would pay all of her fees, as it’s based on your ability as an artist and they want the best) with a portfolio of her work as required.

Mid-March – Tara hears that she has a place at UC Sunnydale with a scholarship

Late March – Tara files her statement of intent to register at UC Sunnydale and sends in housing application hoping to get a place in a hall on campus

Early September Tara travels to UC Sunnydale to start her new life.

*****

What I’d like to know is, do my ideas make sense and seem plausible. I want to know before writing too many chapters if I’ve made some fundamental errors which would leap off the page at any American kitten reading it.

Also I’d be interested to know how other kittens think Tara should complete her FAFSA. Do people like any of my ideas, and can you think of any other possibilities? Although I may well gloss over it in my writing, I am still intrigued as to how Tara could have accessed the funding she needs.

I would really appreciate any feedback people can give me.

Thanks :)
~Sez
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Re: Research/Creative Help

Postby Trom DeGrey » Tue Aug 16, 2005 8:42 am

We usually just refer to them as the SATs.

We don’t usually call them holidays. They’re vacations and it’s called Summer Vacation. Holidays are things like Christmas and Easter.

What’s a personal statement? Privately offered grants and scholarships normally require some sort of essay from the applicant, but not the government grants (known as PELL grants, for your reference). If specifically applying for a scholarship of some type from a school, they will probably require an essay (I’m guessing that’s what you mean by a personal statement.) but if Tara is awarded a scholarship (say she gets something because she has good grades) they may not ask for the essay. Or, as you’ve proposed, a portfolio of her art.

The SAT has changed again recently and my knowledge of it is dated to begin with, but to my understanding, you cannot sit for parts of it. You take the entire thing each time you sit for it. It used to just cover math and verbal (reading/comprehension), but now I believe it encompasses other subjects as well. There used to be a Pre-SAT that many students sat for in their junior year. Sort of a sneak peek at the SAT they would take the next year. I think you can sit for the SAT three times total. Not sure on that one.

*chuckle* YES!! This is an unacceptable use of magick. I just can’t see that in Tara’s character. Her guidance counselor could help her best I think. Students without parents (grew up in foster care/unadopted) can apply as individuals for financial aids and grants, maybe you can come up with a way for Tara to do that as well. Perhaps just establishing an address outside her home would be enough. Contact the financial aid office of an American university. Explain to them that you’re a British writer and just trying to get your facts correct. How can a student establish that they are without financial support from any parents? I would suggest trying a smaller school so you don’t get lost in the shuffle though. A quick email shouldn’t be much of a problem. Or don’t tell them you’re a writer. Tell them you’re a potential student, but have no support from your parents. See what they say.

Everything else looks plausible to me. There’s plenty of money out there for Tara to get to go to school. She could also do a work study program. She works a certain number of hours a week for the school (the bookstore, etc…) that covers some of the cost of her schooling.

Hope this helps.
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Re: Research/Creative Help

Postby Sn0wflak3 » Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:33 pm

Hello COSMIC DANCER :wave
Personally, i think Tara would have used magic- In "Family" Tara says to her Dad: "How did you find m- i mean, how come you came", implying that she may have used magic to hide where she was (imo, anyway). Getting into uni, and away from her Dad and Donny is probably the most important thing, so if casting a spell would help her, then maybe she'd do it... although, i'm sure she'd feel rather guilty about it.
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