http://scifi.ign.com/tv/6845.html
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Words of WhedonThe man behind Buffy reveals all about cameos, action figures and the Cheese Man.
May 30, 2001
Joss Whedon, also known as The Man Behind Buffy, most succinctly known as "God," is finally ready to reveal the secret behind his show-stopping turn as dancin' fool Numfar on a recent episode of Angel.
"I was with the Alvin Ailey troupe for eight years," he confides, more deadpan than a whole posse of Xanders. "A lot of people don't know that."Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
"Actually, I kept saying, 'Oh! And there should be a guy in the background doing a stupid dance like this!!!'" he admits. "Finally, [David] Greenwalt and [Tim] Minear were like, 'Why don't you do the stupid dance? You already look stupid, we've just gotta put make-up on you!'"
Indeed. And that's how Joss ended up gettin' his groove on in the background of one of the two shows that make up his Slayerly empire. The free-spirited hilarity of that moment ("Numfar! Do the dance of joy!") perfectly encapsulates the wonder that is Joss -- a dizzyingly kaleidoscopic imagination that isn't afraid to go for that pure gut emotion. In this case, it's a whopper of a belly laugh. Other times, it might be a deeply felt moment of earnest romanticism, or a torrent of sobs.
Either way, the man behind the magic is rather modest about his accomplishments -- he speaks easily in a self-deprecating tone peppered with occasional bits of sarcasm. Though he sounds most obviously like quick-witted regular guy Xander, you definitely sense a piece of each character in him. Like Buffy, he knows what makes a good leader -- he might do another cameo, but only if it's good for the show as a whole.
"Just so long as I don't become one of those self-indulgent guys who's like, 'Look, it's all about me!'" he says. "[It took] two and a half hours in make-up to make me look that good, OK? I know what I am -- I'm a writer. And when writers become about the business about themselves, they've lost sight. So I'd love to do some more [cameos], but only if it's still funny."
Ah, but the fans are crying out for it!
"Well, you know, I keep saying to Greenwalt, 'Yeah, this story's interesting, Angel's going through a lot, [but] what's the Numfar of it?" Joss says, sounding very much like Xander again. "What's Numfar learning? What's Numfar dancing about? Let's really examine the important things!"
Certainly, Joss has plenty to dance about these days. He's just coming off of successful seasons of Buffy and Angel (and if you're living under a rock these days, the former show moves to UPN next season while the latter stays on The WB), his comic book effort from Dark Horse, Fray, bows next week, and he's got a possible Giles spin-off for BBC and a Buffy animated series in the works.
For now, though, it's last Tuesday, the eve of Buffy's 100th episode, and Joss is taking a break from his fantastically busy schedule to chat with me over the phone about the world of The Slayer and beyond. Today, Buffy Anne Summers is still alive and well, so the conversation turns to other matters...
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IGN Sci-Fi: First, I'd kinda like to do the dorky fan thing and say congratulations -- not only on 100 episodes, but also on two amazing episodes from this year, "Family" and "The Body." What was it about those particular stories that made you want to write and direct them?Joss: Thank you! I really appreciate that. The "Family" thing -- I've always believed that a family is the people who love and respect you, that you create your own family. When we created the show, they said, "Do you want [Buffy's] family?" And I said, "Well, mom and whatnot, but basically, she has a family. Her father is Giles, her sister is Willow, and it's already in place." I had some things go on in my life that made me say, "I really want to get this message out, that it's not about blood." Tara was the perfect vehicle for that. And I actually love my family! [Laughs] We've been an unconventional family. I was a child of divorce, and there was a lot of shuffling around. And [there were] people who were not in my family who became of my family.
"The Body" -- I just thought, "This is something Buffy needs to go through." This is a rite of passage that people go through, that I in fact went through myself -- I lost my mother several years ago. And I wanted to capture something there... I mean, "Family" is as much of a didactic message show as I've ever done. Hopefully an entertaining one, but it is. It was them standing there saying, "We're family," all around [Tara], and hopefully you cried, if I did it right.
But I wanted to capture something much more abstract [with "The Body"]. Just a morbidly physical reality of death and of grief, of that first few hours after. The incomprehensibleness of it, and the different ways everybody deals with it.
You know, I worked my ass off on [that episode]. And my whole cast was extraordinary. But I really thought people were going to sort of hate it, because the whole point was, there's no catharsis. There's no point where you go, "We've learned this!" or "She'll always be a part of us!" It was just, "My mother is a dead body. And that's all." But people actually did get a kind of catharsis from it. A lot of people who have lost people said it really helped them to deal with it or it really moved them. I was surprised by that, because my intention was just to capture that reality, not really to comment on it or be helpful about it. [Laughs]
The reactions of all of the characters were based on things I've done. My mother was not the first person I lost. The first person I ever lost, there was a whole thing where I had to go to the funeral, and I had to find a black tie, because I thought you had to wear a black tie to a funeral. Of course, it was California, so people showed up in Hawaiian shirts, but I didn't know that! And I couldn't find one anywhere in LA. I went to dozens of stores, and I was sweating and shaking, like, "If I don't find this, it'll be sacrilege!" That's where the Willow thing came from. And then when I lost my mother, there was that numbness that I tried to capture with Buffy, but at the same time, I had already lost someone, and I was around a lot of people who hadn't, so then I was sort of in Tara's shoes -- watching other people's reactions, and just trying to help and get through it. So it's all there. Everybody's got a piece of that.
IGN Sci-Fi: Most definitely. And speaking of the ways in which you come up with ideas, is there a Big Book of Whedon? Do you know exactly how the show's gonna end, or do you make it up as you go along?
Joss: It reveals itself to me in increments, about a year in advance. At the beginning of this year, I'll probably start to figure out next year. I just sort of let the story tell me what it is and then when it comes time to actually write the scripts, I've got to fill in the blanks. So it's not like I know exactly where I'm going in terms of the big picture, but because the show is divided into years and every year is a different theme, I do have that mapped out.
IGN Sci-Fi: So, like, when Tara hid the powder during one of her first spells with Willow, did you know why?
Joss: Honestly? I thought I knew, but I was wrong! [Laughs] We were thinking of making her part demon. And I actually had some family troubles, some things...some issues, OK? -- I'm man enough to say it! I was sitting on the couch, and I was like, "Wait a minute -- she's not demon! Her family just tells her she is!" And it led to something I've always wanted to say about family.
And we never were really [sure of the idea]. What, she's part wood sprite? She's gonna have tiny little relatives? We never really loved the idea. The idea that somebody thinks there's something wrong with them because their family has always told them that when there isn't is ten times more interesting and poignant than, ”I have wood sprite blood in me!" And ultimately, what was interesting about that show [is that] we played the entire show as about being gay -- it was very strange to play a gay metaphor about somebody who's openly gay! It was interesting to work it on the metaphorical level, but it became less preachy that way. And more open to other interpretations.
IGN Sci-Fi: So that's the lost scene we'll never see: Tara's wood sprite family.
Joss: Wood sprite family fell by the wayside. It was like a bolt from the blue: Wait a minute, we're doing this wrong! And that's why when we lay things in, we keep ourselves open, to a sudden change or a better idea. We've often have ideas that we were like, "Oh, we could pursue this," and then something much cooler came along, and we're like, "OK, never mind!"
IGN Sci-Fi: Oh, yeah, I mean to find out she was human was the biggest pay-off of all. But the Cheese Man still means nothing...right?
Joss: Cheese. Man. Means. Nothing! It doesn't mean it means nothing to everyone who sees it. There may be somebody who has a big thing about cheese that wept every time he came onscreen. To me, he meant nothing. Except the idea of meaning nothing. Therefore he meant something. [Pause] Ohmigod!
IGN Sci-Fi: Now, you're also going to finally do the musical episode on Buffy next year...
Joss: I really am!
IGN Sci-Fi: What are some of your influences on that? Are there specific plays or movies you looked to?
Joss: I grew up all musicals. I couldn't pinpoint one. I am a Sondheim fanatic, I love all showtunes, and I studied the musical film in college. It is my single favorite genre. Musically, what I'm going for is somewhat more pop-y than the movies I tend to watch -- I tend to go for the older, more classical ones. I'm trying to make it viable as a modern sound, sort of pop that works lyrically like a musical that actually tells a story.
You see people like Elvis Costello and Aimee Mann who have a very structured lyric who are very much storytellers, but still [write] extraordinarily catchy pop tunes. That's the sort of sensibility I'm trying for. Rent kind of did it well, in the sense of mixing pop and musicals. I can only play like five chords, so we'll see. But hopefully I know the characters well enough that I can write songs that really do reflect emotionally what they are and what they're going through. Also, I know the ranges of all my actors!
The problem -- and I go off about this all the time -- [is that] people don't know how to make musicals. They play a scene, and then they sing an old song that sounds peripherally like it has to do with the scene. The center of the scene is the song! The most important information, the biggest emotion, has to come from the song. It can't happen after the scene is over. I wanted to make a real musical. And it may be a real bad one. I mean, the potential for sucking is off the charts -- I'm well aware of that. But, by God, I'm gonna try!
IGN Sci-Fi: And we all look forward to seeing it. OK, so you once said that you're a big girly man. What, exactly, does being a big girly man entail?
Joss: Uh, it's about my wardrobe and I'm not sure I wanna... No, "big girly man" means that...I know every showtune there is! That I'm very emotional in terms of narrative, the things I love are things of the heart. I hate unearned sentiment, but I love earned sentiment more than anything. Very old-fashioned storytelling. That's why I love musicals, because I love the pinnacle of emotion -- bursting into song. And that makes me a girly man! Trust me. Also, my attempts at playing sports would probably back that up as well.
IGN Sci-Fi: Fair enough. And finally, why is there no Joss Whedon action figure?
Joss: Well, Seth [Green] actually made one! He's a great sculptor, and it had, like, the whole kit. He made one for the entire cast -- it was amazing! He took action figures, molded new heads, and drew new clothes. It's an incredible piece of work. And everybody had their different things -- Sarah [Michelle Gellar] had a little space heater, and I had a computer and Advil.
IGN Sci-Fi: So when it finally comes out, what else will it come with?
Joss: Well, you know...a super power blaster ray death sword. Because I wanna be cool. What, am I gonna hit people with my computer?
--Sarah Kuhn loves showtunes, but can't sing a note.
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"Willow? I got so lost . . ."
"I found you. I will always find you."
-- Tara and Willow, "The Gift"
"Even in death, Gabrielle . . . I will never leave you."
-- Xena, "One Against An Army"
[This message has been edited by Shaniezak (edited May 31, 2001).]
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