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Fic: - The Sidestep Chronicle & Second Chronicle

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Oh, AWESOME!!!

Postby Sassette » Thu Jul 18, 2002 1:27 am

Okay, I in NO way want to make this about Spike, because it's not ... but this issue right here is exactly what always bothered me about the Spike storyling - where people saw him on the road to redemption without a soul.



Because if a vampire's behavior can be modified - if they're really capable of being GOOD - then doesn't that mean the Slayer is really a mass-murderer?



Except that you've established so clearly that VW ... she's not GOOD. She's a killer - she's BAD, and so she doesn't illustrate this at all. The only thing she's an example of is this prophecy - there's this extenuating circumstance that makes it possible for her behavior to be modified ... there's fate, and there's Tara, and the idea that >any< Willow and >any< Tara are meant to be together, and I'm SO about to start rambling.



I guess what I'm trying to say is - I love that you've tackled this idea head-on instead of never addressing it ... because it's such a very interesting question, and I just know I'm going to love wherever you end up going with it.



-Sass

Sassette
 


Re: Fic: - The Sidestep Chronicle

Postby fudgie9 » Thu Jul 18, 2002 2:56 am

Katharyn, Wow, more pieces of the puzzle fall into place. I particularly loved the last paragraph. Not only was it important in establishing Quentins position in relation to W/T, but it also made me smile to think of V/W in behaviour modification therapy. In all a lovely little teaser before I go on holidays. One day to go. Excited, Oh yeah. Thanks muchly Nicole

Just quicky I have to say to VampNo12 I've been lurking in this thread for ages and I love your summaries.

fudgie9
 


Re: Fic: - The Sidestep Chronicle

Postby Tulipp » Thu Jul 18, 2002 4:56 am

Consequences?



This chapter was great. I'm with LQ...i did not see that coming. I'm thinking, too, of what a confrontation with Faith would be like for Tara...she already expects Faith not to like her choice of VW, although she sees Faith lashing out at VW, not her. It seems that the few people that Tara--after her years of solitude--has gotten close to are now turning, or being forced to turn, against her. Lilah. Giles, with the report. And Faith.



If you'll permit a little bit of whining....I want to know about the prophecy right nooooooooooow!

Tulipp
 


Re: Fic: - The Sidestep Chronicle

Postby zero » Thu Jul 18, 2002 7:31 am

Well there are about a million things preventing me from regularly visiting the boards these days, but its good to catch up on big chunks of this story when I can.

As per usual I have nothing useful to say other than; still reading. still intrigued. still enjoying. Thanks.

'Winners never quit, and quitters never win, but those who never win and never quit are idiots!'

zero
 


Re: Oh, AWESOME!!!

Postby darkmagicwillow » Thu Jul 18, 2002 11:36 am

The Buffyverse has several features that try to make it black and white from vampires losing their souls to their bodies disintegrating so the Slayer doesn't leave a trail of human-looking bodies behind her, but it has been steadily losing that distinction and becoming more grey as we saw the Council's darkness, met the first Slayer, saw Buffy kill the knights and decide to save Dawn over the world in season 5, and then all the things that happened in season 6. Finally by the end of season 6, I couldn't accept what Buffy was saying when she said Willow shouldn't kill Warren. She just didn't have any moral authority for me any longer.



So is it enough of a reason to kill vampires that they kill people? I think it is even if some of them or even all of them could be changed. It's an immediate emergency; they're like an infection that you have to cut out, almost literally as a creature that can kill people and has a generation time of a day, perhaps less, could easily wipe out the human race even with their sunlight disadvantage. It only takes 33 days with that doubling rate for every human to be converted. It's true that they don't generally act like that in the Buffyverse but the Master's scientific inclinations with his machinery in "The Wish" looked like a step towards that thinking as was the pyramid scheme in the one Angel episode. In some ways, killing vampires given some small potential for redemption is like Giles decision to kill Ben though not as ambiguous IMO.



You don't have the time for therapy so I have to agree with Quentin that they should be killed. Of course, sending Faith to kill Tara is a really bad idea even if the coverup of VW's changes is necessary for the greater good. I also have a distrust of the Council as they're too rigid and focused on their own importance to make correct decisions on matters like this.



--
"Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "   "Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost."

darkmagicwillow
 


Re: Oh, AWESOME!!!

Postby Katharyn » Thu Jul 18, 2002 12:02 pm

GRRRR I had this whole big reply typed out and I lost it so I had to start again.



Thanks guys... the feedback is what I crave*S* Doe sthat make you my dealers?



Sass - I too shall not mention Sp*k*. It's funny but when I was planning this whole thing the idea of "redeeming" Vamp Willow never entered my head exept to be saying "no not doing that." Funnily enough though that was nothing to do with Sp*k* - just vampires in general.



I love what you said... it is all so true and it gives me a chance to go on about it!



It is very true that Vamp Willow is not "good." In no way is she good. In her own mind she would be horrified at being perceived as good. Nor would she want "redemption." No one in the fic really believes that is possible - bar Tara perhaps. But only in her hopes.



What "good" there was is a product in part of the fate that they she - the universal law of W/T - and the other thing is that it has always been Tara's perception/hopes rather than a flat out statement that Willow was being "nice." Willow has always had her own reason for doing things that seem good. For example the gifts that she gets for Tara when she was ill. The inhalent was simply to stop Tara being messily ill and to get her back to playing. Miss Kitty was a snack. Tara still does not know that.



Nevertheless I hope that by now the shift in even Tara's perceptions is becoming clearer. That was always something that was going to happen... its just the method that came to me later.



See you started to ramble nad I think I finished it off for you!



Nicole - Quentin as noted by Sass and DMW on the next page - has good reason to do what he did. It was wrong with regard to Tara (IMHO he should have just have had Willow killed) but the idea behind it was valid and important. Again this was something that had to happen once the council were involved, though the "therapy culture" thing came later. Again this is his PoV so he has bigger reasons that disdaining Americans for doing this....



Tulipp - are you implying that I am taking Tara's recently acquired support structure away from her? *S* Well maybe...



I think you are being a little hard on them though - at least so far. Lilah's reaction has not really been shown, Giles regrets necessity of the report and Faith has not even heard the orders! Can you imagine Faith and orders like that?



*Tease Tease Tease* Thanks for the opportunity Tulipp that had been building up for a while!



Zero - Thanks... glad to know you are still with us*s*



Darkmagicwillow - Oooh Buffy philosophy 101... can I join... my name isn't on the list!



This has always been a grey world. To me it was in 'The Wish' when we saw what the world had done to Giles. He was still good, but he was also tired and having to be a different person to survive.



As for Buffy it is sort of OT as I made she sure she was never coming back (I hate writing Buffy as you may have noticed) she never really had any moral authority... That was really a function of the needs of the show though - rather the character IMHO.



I like you maths there... I have not tried to work it out but I assume you are right about it. That said... there is a natural limit to the vampires - the limit is that which provides them with blood. The Masters machine still required humans. I tend towards the idea tha a town can only support so many vampires. Sunnydale had too many really to be sustainable in this fic so I tended to deal with that by suggesting that the Order of Aurelius was driving out those who did not belong. Nor were they creating many new vampires - until Tara and Faith showed. Indeed that is wht caused the death of the Maclay family.



Where was I? Oh yeah... vampires should be put down like rabid dogs I agree.



The "therapy" thing was a jokey fear... though valid... I think perhaps if I was Quentin I would be more afraid of a widespread knowledge of vampires and the idea that they might not be so bad...



Oh and as for self-important... Who the Council? Never... never... well okay.



Katharyn

--------------

Katharyn
 


Re: Oh, AWESOME!!!

Postby tommo » Thu Jul 18, 2002 1:25 pm

I've been cogitating on this for quite some time now. I'm still doing that. The Council, as we know, are a double edged sword. Oddly enough, the same kind of situation is becoming apparent in something else I'm reading. But double edged or not, they're still a sword, you know? A weapon. I think they sometimes forget that in their need to quantify their means.


----------
It's dirty. It's all dirty. And all
over me. Dirty, dirty, bad. Bad!

tommo
 


Re: Vampires

Postby Zahir al Daoud » Thu Jul 18, 2002 1:48 pm

Okay, I am personally very intrigued by the possibilities in vampires (no surprise there) but I've also not lost track of some basic facts:



1. Vampires are almost all little more than smart, vicious animals. The reasons for this seem simple--take the conscience and empathy away from almost any human being and replace it with the instincts of a predator who feeds on people. What will you get?



2. Vampires hunt and kill humans, even though technically they don't "have" to. Animal blood serves (and is actually less trouble to get hold of).



3. Nearly everyone who goes after vampires are going after the ones who kill--so the (probably very tiny) minority who don't can pretty much keep their heads down (I'm thinking about the ones who run those bleeder dens Riley went to).



4. So the vast, vast majority of vampires need slaying. Oh yeah, they need it.



5. In the war against demonkind, some innocents are bound to be lost, but to deliberately twist the facts in order to slaughter someone in the name of doctrine is the act of a moral coward.



Yeah, I'm hissing when Travers in on stage. He could be worse, easy. But he could even more easily be simply a better human being.

"O Let my name be in the Book of Love!
If it be there I care not of that other Book above.
Strike it out! Or write it in anew, but
Let my name be in the Book of Love!"

--Omar Kayam

Zahir al Daoud
 


Re: Oh, AWESOME!!!

Postby Katharyn » Thu Jul 18, 2002 10:44 pm

Ruth - Cogitating? That sounds painful... Doing something with cogs is it? Clockwork? *wink*



I think you are right, the Council are certainly a double edged sword. Good way of putting it. They are insufferably self-important yet they get that from being just about the only body standing up to the darkness - for centuries.



They don't care about the individual - not even the Slayer - but they get that from trying to make the whole planet a better place.



Can you care about everyone if you do not care about anyone? Interesting question and not one that I addressed directly in the fic... another missed opportunity.



Zahir - No there is no surprise there as you say*S*



To take your main point... Quentin twists the opinion of Collins for his own purposes. I am not certain that he would see that as moral cowardice - not in his moral framework - though certainly in ours. He perceives a danger. I would suppose that even if VW got stakes he would still see a danger in Tara. First there is the "therapy" thing. Tara has sort of proven that some of the vampires tendencies can be muted. But not enough... She might spread that idea. (We know she wouldn;t but he does not.) Consider the rest though...



Tara is a powerful magic user. That, the council will know, always comes round to bite you in the ass. Eventually, if Tara keeps going, she will succumb to the magic. A crisis situation would push her into using more magic than is safe. Even Tara knows that. So does Quentin and then Collins reports suggests that she might be approaching some sort of emotional burnout... not a good thing I am thinking in a magic user.



For all the good she has done Tara has allowed VW to kill over and over again. Tara can't do anything else - it's Willow - sort of.



And then there is Lilah... the Wolfram and Hart thing that the Council would be aware of IMHO.



All that together forms Quentins reasoning. Should he have ordered Tara's death - hell no. But did he still have some reason to do so - looking at the bigger picture and taking the easiest way through that? Maybe by his own standards yes. He has more things to think about than Tara, thna Sunnydale or the USA... I suspect that the choice is basically the simplest answer to him.



Hey look at me I sound like I am apologising for Quentin... Nah. Just putting across a different PoV.



These orders do not come home to roost immediately either. I am sure you will remember that they are there.



Katharyn

-------------













Katharyn
 


Re: Oh, AWESOME!!!

Postby xita » Fri Jul 19, 2002 1:21 pm

Katharyn, all caught up now ;)



Yes the reasons for killing Tara are very interesting. They fear losing their job basically, but I would agree that they have nothing to worry about. The only thing that stopped Spike from killing was a chip. VW loves Tara as much as a vampire can, is tied to her by mystic forces that can never be measured, and yet she still kills. But, I think in the end they worry more that things aren't as black and white as they would like to others to think. I would have thought actually that they would regard her involvement with W & H and the mayor to as big a threats as anything. Her allegiance certainly doesn't speak of someone who wants to fight the good fight. What they are missing is that Tara always saw herself as a monster in waiting. She had reasons to not be as wary of her company.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

"Oooh Xita!" - Amber Benson

xita
 


Buffy Philosophy 101

Postby darkmagicwillow » Fri Jul 19, 2002 1:40 pm

I think the Wishverse has always been a dark world without clear distinctions between good and evil, but I think the Buffyverse started out with very clear distinctions then lost them as time went on. I've never been much for Buffy either; I've been watching the show for Willow and to a lesser extent Giles since season 1 and then also for Tara from season 4. I like the idea of a more grey world which is one of the reasons I enjoy Sidestep so much, but on TV they did a very poor job with it overall.



You're right about all predators having a natural limit, but it's worth remembering that vampires can live on animal blood and presumably vampire blood too though the latter's not self-sustaining. But I think they'll generally do what the Order did to keep down their numbers. Still, having a natural limit for a sustainable population doesn't mean you can't overshoot it and have an unsustainable overpopulation. Given what humanity is doing to its environment with its much slower growth, I can imagine the vampires saying on day 32 when it's much too late, "Oops, we're going to run out of people to eat tomorrow!"



By the way, who was Aurelius anyway? I can't imagine the author of The Meditations being a vampire.



--
"Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "   "Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost."

darkmagicwillow
 


Re: Oh, AWESOME!!!

Postby Katharyn » Fri Jul 19, 2002 1:43 pm

Hey Xita... you know all my secrets pretty much so I appreciate your... discretion as well as your feedback.



Let it be known too that Xita has been brainstorming that thing that Xita brainstorms best... for this fic. Above and beyond the call... or below and down.*S*



Talking of brainstorming I happen, as I type this, to be brainstorming the Xmas fic with Kerry. Yes I said Xmas. What 4 months and 25 days to posting???!!



Anyway to the comments. Thanks hun*S* They fear losing their jobs? I suppose so. I had not looked at it that way either - I think added to that is that they fear for the world if they do lose their jobs. In an insufferably superior sort of way. Eh Xita?



I think perhaps I erred in making Quentins order seem quite so light hearted. W&H... the Mayor are all big factors in the report and thus big factors to Quentin in his decision. He would have disagreed with the report anyway... I meade it look like it was all about WIllow... and to an extent she is the key... in that Tara "allows" her to kill. Over and over. Despite the "moderation" of her behaviour.



That, certainly, is a big thing for Tara too.



Part 63, if anyone is interested, on Sunday morning... 06.00 GMT



EDITED TO ADD: DMW got to go now but I will reply to Philosophy 101 tomorrow...*S* I was replying to Xita as you posted...



Katharyn

--------------

Edited by: Katharyn at: 7/19/02 12:46:54 pm
Katharyn
 


Re: Oh, AWESOME!!!

Postby Kalita » Fri Jul 19, 2002 9:07 pm

What I thought of here, is how much Quentin and Maggie Walsh would NOT get along.



His worldview has no place for those who study, use, adapt and control. He's fighting a war, not controlling a population.



I could go on, but this really isn't the place.



Anyway; great part, certainly. I do really want to see Faith's reaction to the orders, especially THIS Faith. Canon Faith is much more of a rebel, methinks, so our situation could be quite interesting...

"Numfar... Do the dance of shame."

Kalita
 


Re: Oh, AWESOME!!!

Postby Katharyn » Fri Jul 19, 2002 11:09 pm

Kalita - Yeah Maggie and Quentin would have had real problems and you know what I think I prefer Quentins simplistic approach.



Despite what I have him do here.



At least it is based in a knowledge of what is really going on.



I think it is fair to say that canon Faith is a rebel, but then she had Wesley as her Watcher and was having to compete with Buffy - coming off second best through no fault of her own.



This Faith has benefitted from being "under" Giles but does that make her more or less likely to do what she might be ordered to?



I mean the rebel Faith might have killed on a whim - but would react badly to orders. This Faith more likely to repsect the orders - but less likely to want to kill.



You'll see... eventually... what happens.



Darkmagicwillow - Philosphy 101 - I think that vampires might, actually, be better at taking the long view - especially vampires like the Master who have a plan.



See they want to eat humans... that seems pretty clear whenever any of them is offered an animal or even a packet of human blood. That is a resource that shouldn't be risked (unless you are actually trying to destroy the world!) as far as they see it... at least IMHO.



Its funny you know I actually thought that Sidestep would be quite a black and white place... with W/T forming the grey until they got back to the light. But then all the shades started to run into each other - just to be able to deal with it.



Once I saw that happening I just went with it.



So you got a big grey mess.*S*



Part 63 in 23 hours.



Katharyn

--------------

Katharyn
 


thoughts and thanks

Postby chelehel74 » Sat Jul 20, 2002 7:46 pm

As always this fic has me glued to my palm pilot on every train ride and most nights before I go to sleep.



I just finished your archived fic and was very drawn to your side of the stuff that happens between the action ME gave us in happier times. Thanks and can't wait to see your side of last season.



As for Sidestep my only thought is "I wonder where Faith is with all of this". I got this from the great single chapters featuring Giles and Lilah.



I love how you have managed to draw Tara, Willow, Lilah and even Giles and Jenny but I feel like there is a bit to much mystery in this version of Faith. I'm sure a show down is coming but I wonder if a Vampire and a Slayer could instead work together when one they care about is in danger. Heck could even a lawyer go against her meal ticket to do the same.



I realize that it's about our two favorite gals but with so much great depth in this series I wonder if more insight into the other players might be the last bit of detail left to give your readers a complete picture.



Also one question: If you weren't obligated to follow the timeline as you adopted it or as you created it, is there anything you would change in the way the story has unfolded? For instance characters you haven't, can't or did use in a way you wish you hadn't or other plot points? Just wondering.....



Keep up the great work. Have you thought of finding someone to host the story as a whole on a website? In fact have the kittens as a whole thought about finding a way (other than the archives) to host the completed fics without commentary.

chelehel74
 


Part 63

Postby Katharyn » Sat Jul 20, 2002 11:03 pm

First a response though.

Chelehel74 - Thanks for liking it!

I regret that is highly unlikely that there will ever be a "my side of last season." I have to enjoy writing it you know. There was going to be a sequel to the BC starting after "Family," but where would that go now?

Interesting speculation you have there about what is coming oh and believe me that there is more coming about the other players, but as you say this is the girls story - not anyone elses. This is a big enough story without my getting sidetracked any more than I have done- and I have been at times I will admit.

Your question about the timeline is interesting though. There is no timeline that I had to follow really. The only given was that they have to end happy and that Tara had to believe that she was a demon when she turned 20 - wherever that fell in the fic. The rest of it I have been able to make up. As it was all plotted out in advance (for a change as I am usually bad at that!) I am actually pretty happy with everything!!

As for the archiving... well there are the fic archives here on the kitten now, but I never gave a moments thought to anything or anywhere else. I write for the Kittens and I enjoy the feedback system that we have here so... I am not going anywhere!!

Thanks for the thoughts and the theories.

They are always fun.

Part 63 now Kittens... A VW/T moment.

Enjoy

Katharyn
----------------

Title: The Sidestep Chronicle – Capabilities (Part 63)
Author: Katharyn Rosser
Feedback: Constructive criticism always welcome. katharynrosser@hotmail.com
Spoiler Warning: Pretty limited. The story occurs in an alternate universe though reference is made to events that occur in both realities.
Summary: One of those Vamp-Willow & Tara moments.
Disclaimer: I still don’t own any of the copyrights or anything else associated with BTVS. All rights lie with the production company, writers etc, etc. I am making zilch from this series of stories.
Rating: 15
Couples: VW/T
Notes: Yet another step…
Thanks To: Kerry, who I am chatting to as I edit in the beta to prepare this for posting – though she thought she had my full attention! You’re like a rock. In a good way rather than being inanimate!


The Sidestep Chronicle

Capabilities

By

Katharyn Rosser


“I still can’t believe that they do that! That they pay… for that,” Tara said to the other ‘person’ as she unlocked the door to the apartment and they crossed the threshold. It disgusted Tara, the very thought of it here in her town. Anywhere. But worse… worse was the fact that she had devoted herself to trying to remove vampires from the face of the planet, yet there were humans who paid them for the privilege of getting bitten. In a place like that. A sleazy dive if ever there was one.

Tara had known a lot of sleazy places, stayed in a few, but nothing was sleazier than a ‘suck club.’ They were everywhere. Every city of any size had one and for the most part she had, like graveyards, left them alone.

It wasn't that they were easy to deal with, it was that there were people being killed out there. She couldn’t waste time helping those that gave themselves over to the vampires.

In her travels across the country she had run across humans who cooperated with vampires to gain security or power or even eternal life… but to do it for the sheer rush of it? She could see that the experience might be sort of like a drug, it was just on that was usually fatal the first time that you ‘took it.’ But… to go back… to pay a vampire to fulfil its deepest and most basic need on you? That was sick. Just sick.

“They won’t do it again Kitty. You made them all go away,” Willow commented. “Forever and ever. No more sucking for them.” There was disdain in her voice for the ‘whores’ as the vampire had referred to them earlier. Tara knew it was really disdain for the vampires who chose not to make the kill. Willow could clearly understand why they might want to make such a bargain with humans, but she just could not understand why the vampires had kept to it and refused the delight of the kill over and over again.

The kill was still so important to Willow and that couldn’t not bother her. Blood wasn’t the same, she had said, without the fear and the moment of death.

Talk of the blood always brought it home to Tara again. Willow was still Willow… just a little less intense than she had been before they had met. She still wasn’t a Willow, the Willow, of her dreams.

Would she ever even get to see that Willow again in her dreams?

Willow had followed her there, to the Suck Club which had always been low on the list of priorities compared to saving innocent lives. The innocence was absent from a place like that. People addicted to vampires were not innocents to Tara…

Was that what she was though?

Addicted to Willow? To a vampire? Without the biting. So very definitely without the biting. But…

She looked at Willow. The pale complexion; the cruel but beautiful eyes. She was with a vampire. She just… didn’t let Willow bite her. And Willow got something from her too. It just wasn’t blood. Was that still what this was between them though? A transaction? Play for love? Affection for desire?

Was that all that this was? All that they had?

Willow had not helped as Tara had once dared to hope that she might do. The Master had been different. He had been a threat to Willow herself. To everything that they had. Whatever that was. But the Suck Club wasn’t like that. She supposed that Willow might have helped her if those vampires or their patrons had threatened either of their lives. She liked to think that at least. Willow could just as easily have taken the ‘customers’ and drained them dry instead. That was a possibility. Had been one that she had thought about when she found that Willow was there with her. But Willow hadn’t done that. She had not laughed, fed from those who would have welcomed it and then taken their bodies apart for fun.

That wasn't a nice, reassuring, thought at all. Willow hadn’t done something that Tara would never have wanted her to do… whoopee. Would Willow really have done that if she had not been there? Her heart said no. Her head said definitely maybe.

It brought that question back to her mind. The fear of what Willow would do to others led inevitably to what Willow was and what she was capable of feeling for her Kitty. What did Willow feel? What did Willow feel for her? Could Willow feel and if she could, well could she love? Was she capable of that emotion without having a soul? Willow must have noticed that the expression on her face had altered. It often did when she was thinking like that.

“You’re getting sad again,” the vampire told her, adept at reading her moods even if not overly showing sensitivity to that change. “You always do when you talk about vampires.”

“You know why,” Tara told her. But she decided to spell it out anyway. “It’s not the vampires this time. It’s the people. They have allowed them selves to become snacks… trading money and blood for security.” And there was some security. The scars that were left, unmistakably vampiric in origin were a badge. The humans liked to think of them as marks of allegiance, showing that they belonged to another vampire – so that a killer such as Willow would not take them, fearing reprisal from that other. Tara knew it was a false hope. That the truth of the matter was that a vampire like Willow, Willow herself, would slaughter such a person in second. The only reason that she might choose not to feed was because she considered such a ‘human’ unclean. Tainted by that first one.

Second hand goods. Spoilt.

And whilst it was true that most of them would not bother with a kill where they didn’t want to drink… at least not in Sunnydale where they had always been able to feed with impunity until recently… vampires like Willow would just kill.

There was always another victim.

And they became a vampire’s plaything… rather than their dinner.

Just like me.

The difference is that Willow loves, well feels… there is something between us.

Wasn't there?

There was something permanent. Ageless and timeless. Something worthwhile and lasting. But was there really? They talked of forever and eternity before, during and after their play and though they meant different things she had to wonder if Willow could really make that promise and really mean to keep it.

“They are nothing… the human cattle, the vampire whores. They are nothing compared to you and I,” Willow told her. “We are the predators Kitty. And we are playmates. Both of us.”

Playmates. Not lovers? Not even that? Even the word lovers did not mean that they were in ‘love.’ Just because it used the same letters. But playmates?

Mate… Sex.

Play.

“My Kitty is all sad,” Willow concluded, as Tara curled her feet underneath herself and the sat on the couch, cross-legged. The vampire moved to stand behind the piece of furniture, teasing Tara’s hair as she sometimes liked to do… long strokes followed by little tiny tugs or gentle scratches to the skull that were more a reminder of what she could do – had done to others – than gestures of affection. At least now they were.

“No.” Tara tried to deny the sadness but Willow wasn't having any of it. Tara found her head slowly pushed back by a pair of fingers on her forehead until she was looking up into Willow’s seemingly upside down face.

“Liar,” the vampire said, reminding Tara of what they had always had between them. Honesty at least. They didn’t lie… at least not for longer than a game might take.

Willow didn’t seem offended though maybe she was even pleased by it. But the vampire was holding her head back, she had not moved her fingers off. Willow wasn’t hurting her but she was, perhaps, showing that she could snap her Kitty’s neck so easily. Willow was waiting for her to react. She knew that, knew that Willow loved the reaction. So Tara didn’t give it to her. Two could play the little games like that. “Let go.”

Her head was released and the offending hand went back to stroking the long blonde hair. Willow’s own red hair fell forward to cover Tara’s face as she lowered her lips to Tara’s and landed a kiss there. Not a nip. No thrusting of tongue to explore the Kitty’s mouth. Just a simple little kiss. And another on her forehead… how long had she waited for something like that? A gesture of affection rather than desire. So long and they still came so infrequently. They would play and play… but the simple things like that were… still so rare.

If she had ever wondered then that sort of thing showed that Willow… really hadn’t changed in many ways. Most.

But when Willow did do something like that, then Tara could almost believe. And there it was in her head again. Maybe Willow could... do that. But could she tell me even if it was true? Would she? All I can do is ask.Tara returned her head to upright and looked out of the window, allowing Willow to continue stroking her hair. Just the simple things… but even that was made complicated by what they were.

Who they were.

By what had happened in their lives. And their deaths.

She could see her own reflection… her hair moving as if tied to an invisible string. Willow was not there with her. “D-do… Can y-you l-l-love?” The view was something she had always avoided in the same way that all but one mirror had been removed from the apartment.

Willow not being there was a terrible thing not to see.

The question was something that she had avoided even more than the reflection – or lack of it. It was… everything that they had perhaps, the hope Tara felt. And if that was taken away. If everything was taken away from her then she was back to having nothing.

Maybe she had never had anything. Anything real. Maybe what she felt was like Willow in a mirror… no reflection. Nothing there.

She watched the hair of the mirror Tara fall straight. It was like watching someone else entirely when Willow could not be seen with her. She still felt that Willow was holding it, stroking it. But she could see that she wasn't there at all. And inside… inside Willow was always there. The Willow that she wanted was always there.

Maybe that had never been this Willow. But maybe it was…

The silence was long. It went on an on. It was relentless.

“Why do you ask me that Kitty?” Willow finally answered her question with another and Tara felt rather than saw cool hands on her cheeks, tracing her jaw.

Never answer a question with a question Tara. It wasn’t me Daddy. It was her. Get off my case.

“B-b-because I c-can’t not know anymore. P-please just tell me if you can. Not if you do… if you can.” It wasn't a statement of her feelings. It wasn't a request to know if this demon loved her. It was for information only. To know if there was a chance. If there had ever been a chance.

Or if she had been deluding herself this whole time. Letting people die for a delusion. Would it be better if they hadn’t?

“That isn’t what you want to know Kitty, Willow knows…”

Tara stayed quiet, neither confirming or denying Willow’s obvious suspicions.

“You want to know if I love you Kitty,” Tara’s continued silence must have been answer enough. Willow came around the couch and sat on the arm facing Tara, interposing herself between the witch and the reflection that was so alone in the window. So that Tara was forced to look at what Willow there was with her. Rather than the lack of her. “I don’t know Kitty.”

“Oh… okay.” Tara looked down at her knees, crossed her arms across her chest as if protecting herself from the hurt to come. If Willow didn’t know then the answer must be obvious. But at least… at least it wasn’t a flat no.

“I don’t remember loving. I have nothing to compare this thing that I do feel to. When I was alive… I had a crush I think. Maybe two… But I never had chance to really love as you humans do.”

You humans? That was brutal to Tara.

Willow watched Tara regard her knees intently, something inside wanting to grasp that chin and spin the neck to an unnatural angle and end the conversation that way. It wasn’t a nice conversation. But that desire was something that she ignored as she had other ones. “Then my soul was gone. She was gone – that other Willow. And when I came back… I wasn’t her anymore. I was me. Maybe someone needs a soul to love. But I don’t know.”

That was what Tara had feared, that Willow couldn’t love. Being unable to love was much worse than not loving. If that was true then there was nothing she could do. If Willow could love, but didn’t, then they had a chance. Tara could try to live with being a plaything if there was a chance of love in their future. But without love it was just affection and sex. Maybe not even the former on Willow’s part.

And she was willing to accept it? There were other things… more important things than her feelings. Things that had been put aside for too long.

“I know-” Willow hesitated as if the words coming to her mouth were like bile rising from her stomach that had to be swallowed back. “I know that I don’t like it when you are not there.” Even that much… better to be staked than to admit that to the Kitty. Where was her power when the Kitty knew that there was something more to it than simply playtime? Just the power to drain her dry… or snap her bones one at a time. That sort of power wasn't what she wanted. That sort of power was flat and boring now – at least with Tara. How long could a vampire go around threatening life and limb before no one believed it? Better just to kill than that. But the power she had held over the Kitty. That was real… thrall. Thrall that was a wonderful word rolling around her mind. “Thrall.” It even sounded good coming off her tongue. But who was in whose thrall?

“Thrall?” Tara asked her.

Willow ignored that stupid question… couldn’t Tara tell that she was just verbalizing her own thoughts. Hello! I do it often enough. Pay attention you little witch… “Sorry,” she said and realised what she had actually said. Sorry?! And meant it. For saying ‘thrall?’ For how she treated her witch? For being unable to love her? She didn’t regret any of it. Not a damn thing. Hello! Evil killer vampire here.

“W-What for?” Tara asked her.

“That I can’t tell you what you want to hear.” She was not going to lie to the Kitty. There was no need to. Willow never had lied to her. Humans lied. Vampires didn’t need to. A lie was only as good as the length of time that the listener continued to exist. Tara had never put her in a position where she had been forced to lie. People… human people… lied either to protect or to hurt. And Willow knew that she could hurt her Kitty just as much telling her the truth. Because the Kitty wanted everything that Willow herself should not have cared about. The only thing she wanted was… “How would I know if I love you without even that memory Kitty? I’m not what I was. I’m better now. Can I really know what love is? If I said ‘yes’ would it be the same as what you feel for me?”

That was the question. And Willow knew that it was asserting her nature. What she was.

“I-I d-don’t know.” And Tara really didn’t know the answer to that. But she did know exactly what Willow meant. It was a question about the vampire that she had asked a thousand times. Asked herself. And she did know what was in her own mind. She was sure of that too.

“You think you love me don’t you?” Willow asked her. The answer didn’t require a question.

Tara didn’t hesitate. Her voice did not fail her, which was good. “Yes, I do love you.” That was the terrible, terrible thing. And it was not the complete truth. Nor was it a lie though. She did love Willow… but maybe not this Willow. More the idea of Willow. Another Willow perhaps.

A Willow that might have been.

--------------

“No you don’t Kitty because you can’t let yourself.” Willow hand’s was a blur as it sped towards Tara’s face, about to deliver a crushing blow. Stopped short, fist touching Tara’s cheek, but not connecting. “I could kill you. Part of me wants to.”

“But you don’t do it.” Willow was right, she had been holding back from it. Always holding back – something. For her own safety? Perhaps just for her sanity.

If not her conscience.

“No I don’t. I should. But I don’t.” Willow stretched her fingers out and laid them on Tara’s cheek, touching her soft earlobe. “And you’re grateful for it Kitty.”

Of course she was grateful for not being… oh. Tara understood what Willow meant. “No!” That was not all that it was for her. Gratitude for life – was that what Willow thought? Was it true that Willow didn’t believe that her Kitty loved her at all? Or couldn’t believe it… so she thought that what Tara felt was just gratitude? For her life… Never just that.

------------

“You get to play the dirty little games Kitty and you get to live too. Most people that played with me… didn’t. You’re grateful for that. That is all it is… that and some nasty lust and maybe some affection.” Better if that was all it was. Willow slipped her hand into Tara’s hair and used it to turn her head around, the tightening grip coaxing her around to look at the vampire. Tara didn’t resist; she never did. Willow might have hurt her… but she never had to. Willow might have even wanted, in some part of her, just beneath the surface to hurt her Kitty. But she never had to - to make her point.

Sometimes Willow wished that there would be a bit more resistance. Not even to hurt the Kitty but just so that they could play the power game. So that her Kitty might take charge. Which was always fun when it happened. Being the tough bitch was all very well… but sometimes she wanted to be the other one, get out of herself. But now there was no resistance at all. Now the Kitty was rubbing her cheek against the arm that snaked into her hair and Willow couldn’t help releasing her grip.

I don’t, the vampire realised, even find any joy in hurting her. It’s no fun. None at all. Tara would accept whatever she did, revelled in it sometimes. It had been interesting, in the past, trying to find the blonde witch’s limits. But that was no longer the attraction. It hadn’t been for a long, long time now. She knew how far she could push Tara, to the point at which pleasure was threatened by pain. And she had no desire to go there. Because the Kitty had no desire to go there. Knowing where that point was took away the desire to get there. There was not even any fun in telling Tara about the gratitude theory – calculated as it was to hurt just a little. To make Tara a little less sure.

She desired other things.

But no other people. Not really. With every kill a part of her screamed inside to play with her food. To enjoy it, to stoke the fear and enjoy the taste. But that was the hunger alone and Willow was not driven just by the hunger. She had never found anything more interesting or more fun in this dark world than Tara, whose soft earlobe she stroked even as the realisation dawned.

--------------

“No” Tara said again firmly, not appreciating Willow’s words. “I l-love you.” It was that simple and it was also that complicated. Tara was absolutely sure of those feelings now – at least for the concept of Willow. The Willow that, sometimes shone through when she came to her in this apartment. Just not the Willow who was out there hunting in Sunnydale. The Willow who could just be with her. The Willow who enjoyed her. Instead of playing or killing. Instead of the sex. Much as Willow might try hurt her, she never could. Not deep down. The vampire felt something for her. Enough to stop the bloodlust from taking over when she was with her Kitty.

In that moment Tara accepted the truth of just what Willow was. She accepted what they were. What they had. And with all that she accepted what Willow would never, really, be. Knowing that - there was still no way in her heart that she could not love Willow. But not… Another Willow, of whom this Willow was but a pale reflection. The vampire had… desires that Tara could do without, but that she yearned to fulfil. It was still, sort of, Willow. But only sort of. It was easy to think that there was a Willow, the memory inside the demon of who she had once been. Her former self. Feeding the personality that seemed to be the demon itself. Occasionally the Willow part might hurt her. But occasionally the vampire part might feel affection too…

It was never going to be… and it already was.

-----------------

The witch had said the “L” word. Again. But this time it was different. The Kitty should just have been prey. At best Tara should just have been a plaything and yet she could say that word…? To a vampire. To a demon. Willow had tried so hard to avoid that expression… to avoid being confronted with it. More recently their relationship – they had a relationship? – had been filled with attempts to avoid that declaration and having to deal with it whilst not driving the Kitty away. And now she, the Kitty, had said it anyway.

Something had changed. The Kitty had been different since the Master had been destroyed. Of course she had. That was when she had grown from being the Kitten. Perhaps it had been a little later though… maybe a little after that.

Had the Kitty changed in L.A.? When she had thought that she was leaving to become a demon?

Perhaps.

‘Love.’ Willow could not deny the power of the statement. It was good to know that the Kitty needed her; was reliant upon her ‘affections’ and desires. It was good to know that the Kitty would stay around… for that was what love meant. The desire to remain… hers. But, Willow wondered, [/i]can I ever give myself in response? Should I? And why would I? Why the hell am I even thinking about this. I need to kill.[/i]

It didn’t matter that much to Willow. The Kitty was hers and that thing she didn’t like – being without the Kitty – was a more distant prospect with the word said. The rest was all the Kitty’s problem. Feelings were the Kitty’s problem… but she, Tara, was looking at her. Waiting. Willow had already played nice… she had already told the Kitty that she couldn’t, truthfully, say the same words. Even if she was capable of it. But the Kitty’s eyes were locked on hers – impossible to avoid even if she could have resisted that challenge. “You are all the pleasures that I will ever want or need Kitty.”

Tara tried not to react, but Willow knew that Tara was aware that the superior vampiric senses would detect the way she drew breath, the flush in her skin. The flicker of her eyes. Willow couldn’t miss it. She couldn’t miss the immediate thrill and a half-second later the desperate disappointment that Tara suppressed. The Kitty so obviously wanted more than that. Tara was screaming out to every sense but her hearing ‘stop short of returning my love if you must but please…’

Willow could see it. It burned brightly in the Kitty. Need.

Good.

“I know” Willow continued wondering why she was even bothering. Just easier this way “That you are mine. You said it before. But I’m yours too. Even if I can’t love you, if you asked… I would be yours.” Willow meant that in every sense. Every sense. “And you are my always… I want you with me always. Eternal.” It really was easier that way. Again it was the truth… but it was not the whole truth. What the Kitty meant to her was pleasure. Many different kinds of pleasure.

The Willow within knew, in theory, that was not love.

--------------------

Tara recoiled from one possible meaning of that statement… though the other filled her with something approaching joy. Willow belonged to her. They were each other’s always. But… eternal? They had had the discussion about that word before. Willow was far too precise to have failed to remember that. It had been used deliberately. And where was the love? No love?

Willow did not believe that she could love.

The vampire continued, “I can’t say what you want me to Kitten, but the rest of it… what I could say. Can you even tell the difference? Why did you have to ask if you could?”

The difference was just a word.

And the word meant everything.

************
Katharyn
23. Volumey Text
 
Posts: 3794
Topics: 5
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:23 pm


Re: Part 63

Postby LeatherQueen » Sun Jul 21, 2002 12:18 am

Ooh, Katharyn. Lovely. And I absolutely love that part of that conversation took place with Tara able to see their reflections. Or lack thereof, as the case is with Willow.



Wonderful update, as always. :)






--------------------------------


"But when they're playing your song on the jukebox in Hell, you might as well dance." - K. Simpson


"Futile... like a FOX, baby!" - Tara in The Late Shift by wiccachica

LeatherQueen
 


Re: Part 63

Postby Katharyn » Sun Jul 21, 2002 12:22 am

The reflection thing was something that just came to me in a flash of my own stupidity I started writing as if she could see Willow, but then duh... works just like a mirror!



I mean you think I would remember that right?



I really should stop telling how daft I can be...



Thanks Leatherqueen



Oh... and I am sort of interested, all of you, in where you think this part is pointing... if you care to say. Not that I will confirm or deny... much.



Katharyn

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Katharyn
 


Re: Part 63

Postby xita » Sun Jul 21, 2002 3:36 am

Katharyn, the big love talk and Tara so desperately wanted to hear it and vw could not deliver. The key here is her saying deep down she knew she didn't and couldn't love. And Tara realized that too. Which brings all kinds of questions for them, and Willow's use of the word eternal again. What is the implication of that? I mean to me Willow is suggesting that she will do everything it takes for Tara to be hers eternally. And that I am sure is not something Tara wants at all.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

"Oooh Xita!" - Amber Benson

xita
 


Re: Part 63

Postby Katharyn » Sun Jul 21, 2002 4:31 am

Xita Hey darling shouldn't you have been in bed when you wrote that? Sorry... enough of the terms of endearment I know how you hate them! Talking of which, some progress made on 'you know what.'



The big love talk had to come. There have been hints before, but it has always danced around certain issues. Tara's PoV has been, to some extent, an optimistic one. VWillow it has to be said has been content with things as they are - but she is unchanging.



Even now I am not sure that Willow will think that anything has changed due to what she has admitted here - even though the phrasing is such that doors are still open. Doors that Tara will look to. Willow does not know... that still has to offer some hope to her - even if there was the truth lurking there as well. At least I hope all of that was there!



As for eternity... no. Not something Tara wants. It should perhaps make the reader wonder why Willow, knowing this, keeps on going on about it? It is not a threat... it is a game to her. So much of what she does is playing one game or another.



Katharyn

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Katharyn
 


Re: Part 63

Postby Murasaki S » Sun Jul 21, 2002 1:30 pm

Very intriguing fic. I've been meaning to catch up on this thread forever, but I'm so hopelessly behind, I finally decided to just jump in. After watching The Wish for the first time the other day, this is making all kinds of sense. I'm glad you haven't tried to soften up VW too much, it makes the story that much more interesting.

Poor Tara,VW will never be able to give her exactly what she wants. And yet she's her Willow and they still have an undeniable bond. I'm sure Tara is wondering if there is something that VW might experience, some kind of challenge she would face that would make her be more like the Willow of her dreams.

About that eternal stuff, is VW thinking about turning Tara into a Vamp? Question is: would Tara still be her Kitty if she did that?

Very cool story idea, brilliant even. Thanks for sharing!

Murasaki S
 


Re: Part 63

Postby LeatherQueen » Sun Jul 21, 2002 2:30 pm

What this part is pointing to? Hm. I'm not sure.



But one thing I definitely did get out of this is that VWillow does not know if she can love, because she has nothing to base it upon. Her prior life is all that she has for basis or interpretation, and that life didn't allow for her to fall in love. Therefore she can have no certainty about whether vampires can love. Is it the soul that loves? I guess it all comes down to that question.



But... that still leaves the tiniest of room for doubt in Tara's mind. Just a little bit of wiggle room to allow her to think that maybe,... maybe VWillow has the capacity.



And I think that question is going to torture Tara more than any other. Especially now that she has a future to look forward to.






--------------------------------


"But when they're playing your song on the jukebox in Hell, you might as well dance." - K. Simpson


"Futile... like a FOX, baby!" - Tara in The Late Shift by wiccachica

LeatherQueen
 


Re: Part 63

Postby tommo » Sun Jul 21, 2002 4:01 pm

Interesting. I see the upward lift of this now; Vamp Willow isn't the same as Tara and she never will be. And I think that a little part of Tara always knew that, but never wanted to accept it. But now it's in the open and there's no going back from that discovery. Thanks. :)


----------
It's dirty. It's all dirty. And all
over me. Dirty, dirty, bad. Bad!

tommo
 


Re: Part 63

Postby forrister » Sun Jul 21, 2002 4:06 pm

Sorry I've been away from this thread so long. A certain episode has just aired here and I have been burying myself elsewhere. No excuse I know.



This part is one I've never seen, and I have to say its powerful stuff. Tara has a decision to make and this conversation will go towards helping her make it. I can think of nothing harder than telling someone that you love them and finding out that they can't tell you the same thing. Gut-ripping stuff. You can never stop loving them, but you have to choose what you'll settle for, if anything. And with Willow in this story it is way more complex than that. My heart is heavy for them both, but I still hold out hope that all will be well.



Sweetness, I do know that when you talk to me you are busy elsewhere, and I don't mind. Oh - and it might please you to know I got 10 hours straight sleep last night. Just like a rock. The drought has broken.





Amor tussisque non celantur (Love, and a cough, are not concealed.)



forrister
 


Re: Part 63

Postby VampNo12 » Sun Jul 21, 2002 4:11 pm

Fascinating part Katharyn! The "moment of truth" has finally come, after all this time with Tara circling around the issue (Can Willow love?), but fearing Willow's answer to this pivotal question.



I thought it was significant that W&T just came from the "suck club", and both were disgusted/repulsed, but for different reasons (ie Tara not being able to see these humans as true "innocents", and Willow not understanding why vampires would bite, but not go through with the kill). It was interesting how Tara was musing if the addiction of the "suck club" could be compared to what they share (ie "A transaction? Play for love? Affection for desire?"). Or in other words, both are getting something from this relationship, but can Tara be truly happy with the feelings being one-sided/or masked as something else (ie Tara needs love, and can she be happy believing passion=love in a demon's mind)?



Also pivotal was their talk started with Tara being able to see her own reflection, but again be reminded of what Willow really is, by her lack of reflection. Here the symbolism kinda shows how "inside" the Willow she truly needs to be happy isn't here in this apartment (Willow isn't the human of her dreams), Meaning, Willow as a vampire is a version/substitute of the one she really wants/needs.



Tara needs hope, that for the future that Willow has the capacity to love. With this in mind, Willow's answer shows she has feelings, but the depth of feeling can never reach the emotion of love. However, what was interesting was Willow's admittance that she can't equate what she feels for Tara as love, because she has no memories (as a human) to compare them to (ie if she never loved before, how would she know if it's love now).



Lastly, I get a sense of Willow subtly changing, but not enough to give Tara what she needs to be truly happy. The juxtaposing of Willow instincts as a demon (ie she knows she could snap Tara's neck right now), with human feelings/needs (ie not ever wanting to be without her "kitty), gives the impression that Willow is at war with herself. However, the simple fact, that not even Tara can stop Willow from killing, shows to me that her modified behavior isn't enough. Or in other words, this Willow doesn't allow Tara to truly live, and therefore, in order for Tara to find happiness more change has to come (ie a Willow with a soul). I am not quite sure how the change will come, but I would guess W&T's dreams are clues, as well as the prophecy playing a role in Willow retaining her soul. Either way I look forward to how W&T find true happiness.



Edited by: VampNo12  at: 7/21/02 3:25:41 pm
VampNo12
 


Re: Part 63

Postby vmpIrslAr » Sun Jul 21, 2002 7:16 pm

Heart wrenching. Heart-breaking but also so intense and beautiful.



I was never good at expressing myself with words, so I can only hope you can understand how incredibly sad and emotional that was for me. My heart felt like a vice was tightning around it.

VmpIrslAr out.



"she's my everything."

vmpIrslAr
 


Buffy Philosophy 102: Love and the Undead

Postby darkmagicwillow » Sun Jul 21, 2002 8:18 pm

When considering whether a vampire can love, it's worth asking why humans can love. We can love because we're mammals; we have live young who need to be taken care of. We carry those traits over into adulthood because we need them to join together to take care of our young (Freud has this amusingly backwards) and to be a social group for other reasons (we're also social mammals; civilization probably couldn't arise from a solitary species). We have such an instinct for this that we even take other animals to make them our pets.



Vampires aren't mammals. Their "young" are immediately capable of taking care of themselves though maybe a short lecture on stakes and sunlight might be helpful. They don't need our instincts for love. It's not clear how social they are--sometimes they are solitary hunters, other times they act as a pack under a strong leader. Perhaps by nature they're solitary predators but something of the human social instinct remains, producing a conflict in their behavior such as we saw with Willow and the Master. It's also interesting that vampires often strike out at their former loved ones; perhaps it's the solitary predator instinct fighting to free itself from social bonds.



In Buffy, vampires are a mixture of demon and human; they definitely retain human characteristics other than the intelligence and appearance they need to hunt and do experience some human emotions so it's clearly possible that they could retain the ability to love. Predators do love, but loving one of those you prey on is odd though there have been cases of lionesses taking in baby herbivores and raising them as their own children.



One of my favorite vampire portrayals is in Nancy Collin's Sunglasses After Dark. Denise, the protagonist, is a one of a kind vampire created by having a blood transfusion after being drained. She experiences her demon as a second personality that emerges under stress. It's clear that she can love, but the Other is always ready to emerge and it's a pure predator that cannot love.



Another example is Julie in Return of the Living Dead 3. She's transformed into a zombie without major brain damage and so retains her human emotions but she also has tremendous cravings for human flesh. She controls the instinct for a while by hurting herself but eventually she gives in and eats dead people then moves on to living people as the hunger grows though she never hurts those she loves. Instinct and need overcome her morals, but not her love.



In conclusion, I'd say that it's possible for a vampire to love because of their human past but unlikely and fraught with danger. Willow's strong solitary predator instinct weighs against her loving, but she has lost her desire to play with her prey which indicates that her instincts are mutable. It's interesting that the opposite happens with cats--they retain the desire to hunt and play but lose the need to kill in our care.





Your and TV's portrayal as Willow and other vampires as childlike and instinctual doesn't bode well for their interest in human conservation. It's never clear why they choose to reproduce in general. Where do all the vampiric footsoldiers come from? Can you accidentally produce a vampire if you're cut while killing someone?



I think you're right about the Master and others like him taking the long view though of course some of them do want to destroy the world as you mentioned. That leads to the question of vampiric aging. While they don't change physically, do they change mentally? Will Willow eventually grow up into a calm master vampire or stay impulsive like Spike has?



In Barbara Hambly's Those Who Hunt the Night, older vampires are very conservative and eventually die because they can't adapt to the rapidly changing human society around them. I think that's likely to be the case with most vampires. There's more to aging than the physical.



--
"Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "   "Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost."

Edited by: xita  at: 7/21/02 9:42:57 pm
darkmagicwillow
 


Re Part 63

Postby Katharyn » Sun Jul 21, 2002 11:04 pm

Okay now, if Xita is quite through f**king with the thread.



I had all this big reply typeed out to you all... the she edited DMW's posts together and cos I used preview... I lost it all.



So having written all this out once I shall be brief this time round - sorry but got to write this morning. And believe me she is already sorry...



Murasaki - Wow you came to this straight off the Wish... *nervous about comparisons now*



Softening Willow? There is some as she had to feel for Tara... but apart from that it is mainly a matter of perception.



Glad you are liking it... you arrived just in time for the big plot lines.





LQ - I think that the doubt that is still there is going to cause problems too... but then I know! Is it the soul that loves? Interesting question... Perhaps it is the soul that allows us to know that we love... Willow, you see, doesn't know - but how would anyone know that they were in love? I mean the first time no one has a memory of it...



Ruth - YOu see an upward lift? Where? Perhaps you mean the plot rather than the mood? And yeah... there is no going back. Tara's reactionsa to all this come out soon.



Kerry - You neevr need to apologise. You gave me feedback when it was most needed - even if not to this.



There was more to this but you know Xita...



10 hours sleep though... good girl



VampNo12 - This is more A moment than THE moment of truth... there are more to come. For once the background the thoughts that link to this were deliberate! Usually they are an accident - but the suck club was intended to give the opportunity for those thoughts so your analysis is spot on.



It is interesting about Tara's future... that she needs to know Willow can love. Again I have to say.. if she did know that what sort of future would she have? They might have one... but what would it be like?



vamplrslAr - Those words are enough thankyou.



Darkmagicwillow - Very interesting thoughts. Very interesting. Some of it is addressed above and some of it I am going to think about a little more.



Thankyou I love to be made to think...



Katharyn

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Now if Xita is quite ready this should work...

Katharyn
 


Re: Re Part 63

Postby Tulipp » Mon Jul 22, 2002 7:40 am

Katharyn, I'm coming to this late. I was out of town for a few days, and my pesky life just completely interfered with my internet access and board time.



Anyway.... this chapter made me sad and sick at heart, but I realize in that sadness that one of the things that is so wonderful about reading this story is that I am inside Tara’s head. Her longing for simple things from Willow…a kiss on the forehead…was so poignant, and it makes me realize that those simple things are what I have been longing for from Willow—waiting for breathlessly and then perhaps overly celebrating when they arrive—all along. And so now, finally, FINALLY, I am getting it, just as Tara's getting it (although we have both gotten it all along in some ways but have chosen to turn a blind eye).



And when Willow tells Tara she doesn’t know if she loves her…man, that hurts.



As usual, it is the simple things that are so evocative in this fic…Tara standing in front of the mirror and feeling rather than seeing Willow play with her hair and touch her face. The lack of reflection here, followed by the idea later of VW as a pale reflection of the real Willow that is who Tara loves and wants to love.



Oh, this chapter was just brutal. Brutal and very, very true.



Wonderful. Thank you.

Tulipp
 


Re: Re Part 63

Postby Katharyn » Mon Jul 22, 2002 11:17 am

Hey Tulipp Welcome back and thankyou!



I read your post once through and it sort of made me go "oh-oh" as making someone "sick at heart" is definitely what this was about...



But then I read it again and I see what you mean. Perhaps I have just been with these characters so long that it is affecting me less, but there is a sadness around what I am putting them - particulary Tara - through here.



Rest assured it gets them to a good place but things get lower before they get higher.



Just one teeny point... I now what you mean but Willow isn;t exactly saying that she does not know if she loves Tara. More precisely she is saying that she doesn't know if she can. In her own way - and perhaps for her own reasons - Willow, to me, was saying that she probably would love Tara if she could, but she just know if she can.



Again with the reflections - everyone likes the reflections *S*



Katharyn

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Katharyn
 

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