BBC Criticized for willow-tara loving

[REMSTAR 69]

I wasnt sure where to post this - so please forgive me if this isnt the right place.



I understand that the majority of kitten board visitors are from the USA - and therefore will not be troubled by the BBC's coverage of BTVS, But i thought u would like to hear about this.



A couple of weeks ago the BBC aired Entropy and Seeing Red - at 18:45. I was pleasently surprised that they didnt edit the willow and Tara scenes - because they have done so in the past. It turns out many people did not share my views, and on sunday the 18th may, the BBC were criticized for showing scenes of lesbianism on a tv review programme called Points of View. People wanted to know why the BBC had not edited a "long lingering kiss between to women at a time when children watch". The show only reported the criticisms - leading me to believe that they either ignored any praise they got for the shows or, they simply did not get any praise in the first place.

I was angered about the response to scenes which i thought were handled very well (can you just be kissing me now - for example). So i thought i would ask all Willow and Tara fans out there to visit the Points of View homepage and read or post messages in support of their relationship and its portrayal.



The web address is as follows

www.bbc.co.uk/pov/



Thanx for reading my angry little rant.



Remstar

[BBOvenGuy]

Quote:

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the BBC were criticized for showing scenes of lesbianism

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Yes, let's condemn the scenes of love and affection while completely glossing over the brutal murder and attempted rape that appeared in the same episode. How typical...

"The first task of anyone, lest you get canceled, is to entertain people, because they ain't there for message." - Dick Wolf

[urnofosiris]

Yes heaven forbid that children should be subjected to two decent kind hearted women in love, lord knows they might grow up and not be uptight prejudiced medieval hypocrites. We definitely cannot have that in this perfect world we are living in.

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Coffee, Food, Kisses and Gay Love........Get it while you are hot

[J uk]

I actually saw that too. I think that one of the phone calls (and don't quote me here since my memory sucks) said that she "didn't want her children subjected to lesbians", and the other two basically said the same thing.



They had a quick interview with man from the BBC who does the editing. He explained how the cuts are made, and that they decided to leave it in because the show had established a long term and loving relationship between Willow and Tara.

[REMSTAR 69]

J uk - i thought the man from the BBC handled the situation well too. He basically said that during the course ot BTVS we have seen willows character grow - and part of this was her relationship with Tara. He also went on to explain how the scenes were important to the rest of the series. - I'm sorry i did not mention this in my first post.

My grievances were with the narrow minded people shown on Points of View.

I know everyones entitled to their own opinion i just hoped more opinions had of been shown.

[tommo]

There's an essay here on "Slayage 8" about the BBC and cuts they make to Buffy.



I noticed that the BBC didn't make any cuts to the Willow/Tara part of the programme, apart from the actual blood spattering at the end. Honestly, I was surprised, but pleased as well.

"Dude, you just rescued a puppy!"

[sprhrgrl]

And I'd always thought of the BBC as more progressive than crappy American television. . .

sprhrgrl.com

counting*stars

racism=sexism=homophobia

The truth shall set you free, but first it will piss you off. – Gloria Steinem

[the vamp nurd]

Well i can say one thing for the BBC, at least we can watch W/T groping which is more than I can say about WB.

Willow (with pointy ears): "NO kissing and gay love?!!!! That's illogical!" The Sci-Fi Bard W/T trekkie ramblings.



Bardlet no #27



"Why Mother because I won't be baking cookies for the mental patients at the county Hospital?" Alex It's In The Water

[AmbersSecretAdmirer]

I will put my tuppence worth on the board as soon as the damn thing loads. Seriously though I found it shocking seeing all those people complain about the kissing and not the rape.



SHAME ON US BRITS!!!

[LokiPromise]

As a Brit watcher and avid believer that everyone is entitled their own opinion, it really annoys me to put it politely the hypocracy of some of those making comments such as those made to PoV. What kind of so called progressive society can we call ourselves if showing heterosexual kissing is acceptable in childrens programs no less shown on CBBC etc. and scenes in Buffy involving W/T which I have to say have been handled well by JW and co. for the most part get critiscised.



Anyway, shouldn't the parents themselves be monitoring what their children can and cannot watch regardless of the time? Also, was any mention made of the rape scenes? If not then the complaints about the lesbianism shown are plane rediculous.

BB:Hello Xander...and Anya, how is your money?!

A:Fine!Thank you for asking!

Edited by: LokiPromise  at: 5/19/03 5:55:54 am

[tommo]

Well, I rather think these people who complain are in the minority. In a way, I can understand what their concerns might be, but in a country where childrens' programmes can and do tackle the topics of sexuality, often on programmes shown far earlier than Buffy is, I suppose I don't understand why parents are choosing to target this show above others.



I'm sure that the people who did complain aren't avid watchers of the show, otherwise they'd see that this episode was part of an overall relationship. A relationship, no less, that was possibly the sweetest and most innocent one seen on the show. Ever.



It's ignorance; that's all. And it's a shame it rears its head now. But I don't think this is the first time Buffy's been targeted for complaints in the UK. I'm sure that it won't be the last, either. Sigh. And I'm willing to bet that the people who complained about this episode also complain about a hundred and one other things on the telelvision. Seems to me that they just need more to do in their lives.

"Dude, you just rescued a puppy!"

[LokiPromise]

Is isn't the first time tommo, although the last time a complaint was made to PoV about Buffy was about showing the violence in the earlier time slot.

BB:Hello Xander...and Anya, how is your money?!

A:Fine!Thank you for asking!

[tommo]

I know, LokiPromise. And I think, from a personal point of view, complaining about lesbian scenes, given the context of this particular run of episodes, it smacks of entire ignorance. Like Bob said; given the excessive violence and scenes of rape, complaining about two lesbians sharing intimate moments seems a little ridiculous.



I do remember the previous complaints leveled against the programme. However, when you take into account the things that are shown over here and the things that aren't shown on networks in other countries, specifically the US, these kinds of complaints tend to appear to be just what they are: small-minded people who have an awful lot of time on their hands, heh. It's a shame really, that positive images such as Willow and Tara aren't seen for what they are. But then, images of sexuality always have and, I suspect, always will be contentious with the British viewing public. I'd suggest that they watch television less and live in the real world a little more, but hey, that might seem a little snarky.

"Dude, you just rescued a puppy!"

[urnofosiris]

People who say they don't want their children subjected to lesbians seem a little more than just ignorant to me. They managed to add an extra dimension of offensiveness to their sentiments with their choice of words. Subjected? You'd think someone was trying to torture their children. Maybe they don't know Willow and Tara are in a long and loving relationship, maybe they do, but I don't believe it would matter to them. Lesbianism in their eyes is so wrong they feel the need to complain about it.



It would not comfort me one bit if they complained about the attempted rape or all the violence as well. To see homosexuality listed among those subjects as a reason to complain just shows what people think of it. They consider it to be no better than acts that are deliberately commited to harm others. I sincerely hope these children will not grow up to resemble their parents, and if any of them happen to be gay I hope they won't be subjected to any outside homophobia, what they'll have to deal with at home will be bad enough.



I am glad to hear the BBC did not edit WT's love scenes this time. They at least have joined the 21st century after that ridiculous censoring of Family.

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Coffee, Food, Kisses and Gay Love........Get it while you are hot

[tommo]

Well, without wanting to get into the issues of semantics, ignorance comes in many forms. I think throughout the progression of the Willow/Tara relationship we've seen many forms of that, from a number of different factions in society.



I don't wish to appear dismissive of this complaint; as a point of fact I'm not. It's thoroughly disheartening to see someone focus on sexuality as offensive, rather than other, more troubling aspects of a television show.



I'd be interested to know how many people wrote to the BBC condoning and congratulating the uncut version of Willow and Tara's relationship in this episode. I'm willing to bet it's a minimal number. Which, again, is disheartening in an entirely different way.

"Dude, you just rescued a puppy!"

[urnofosiris]

Indeed ignorance comes in many forms. I am sure the people who made this complaint possess it in abundance. I just don't believe their possible ignorance of the duration or depth of WT's relationship had anything to do with the reason behind their complaint. They would likely have complained just as hard if they knew WT had met 2 years ago and not 2 minutes ago.



I would not be so bothered if parents were just complaining about sexuality on tv show if they did not make the distinction between gay and straight sexuality. They didn't say they did not want their children subjected to sex, they said they did not want them subjected to lesbians. I fear their particular ignorance may rub off on their children and that does not help in ever getting rid of the (legal) discrimination of people who happen to love someone of the same gender or of people who happen to belong to the opposite gender than the one they were physically born in.



Maybe we should write the BBC to thank them for not censoring WT, but it disheartens me to think that they have to be thanked for what should be a given.

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Coffee, Food, Kisses and Gay Love........Get it while you are hot

Edited by: DrG at: 5/19/03 12:58:19 pm

[tommo]

As one of the people you mentioned in your post; a lesbian who understands and sees the unnecessary treatment and disparity of enfranchisement, it does indeed seem intolerable that this kind of viewpoint is allowed time and credence on the BBC, of all places. Bearing in mind that this is the same company who comandeered and produced Tipping the Velvet.



As a teacher, I'm afraid that I often came up against this manner of thinking from children in the classroom. What parents pass onto their children is repeated, word for word, without the notion of independent thinking being involved. It's sad to say that this happens all the time.



You're right; this kind of viewing should be a given, and should be something that isn't out of the ordinary. However, it isn't. Yet. And, if we're dealing in the idea of semantics, that becomes an even more important word to use in this respect.



I think congratulations to the BBC would be a fitting manner in which to oppose this kind of complaint, clearly from someone who doesn't (or doesn't want to) know better. Yes, it's disheartening to think that nobody should have to support something that, to me, and lesbians like me, is a given in terms of our lives and the way we live them. But I do think it would also reinforce the decisions that the BBC took with this particular episode, and hopefully encourage them to take the same line of thinking on similar programmes and relationships.

"Dude, you just rescued a puppy!"

[drlloyd11]

Quote:

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don't wish to appear dismissive of this complaint; as a point of fact I'm not

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Thats my job

Seriously for all its flaws the BBC does a magnificent job of taking its role in society seriously. Listening to the BBC in the morning is a great antidote to the rest of the news.

[Hemiola]

Warning: rant follows...



Yes, the quality of the BBC's programming is in great contrast to the decline in quality of what is shown on American Public Television. PBS, which once prided itself on its daring programming choices and independent thinking, now is forced to succumb more and more to the pressures of corporate sponsorship and assorted "pressure-groups". Even WGBH Boston, one of the most prestigious stations in the PBS system, felt obliged to "censor" some of the language in its recent Masterpiece Theatre broadcast of the BBC series "White Teeth"

[WillowMcclay6]

Dr.G had me rolling on the floor:

"Yes heaven forbid that children should be subjected to two decent kind hearted women in love, lord knows they might grow up and not be uptight prejudiced medieval hypocrites. We definitely cannot have that in this perfect world we are living in. "







::wipes laughing tears with a hanky::



This whole criticizing of W/T disturbs me....I don't get people. They can be sooo very very ignorant.

[the vamp nurd]

haven't they ever heard of a remote?



I mean if offends you change the channel. It's not brain surgary. oops bad spelling.



W/T - love at it's finest.

Willow (with pointy ears): "NO kissing and gay love?!!!! That's illogical!" The Sci-Fi Bard W/T trekkie ramblings.



Bardlet no #27



"Why Mother because I won't be baking cookies for the mental patients at the county Hospital?" Alex It's In The Water

[LokiPromise]

Hence proving that ignorant people have nothing better to do than to critisize things such as what to watch on television when they are perfectly capable and able to not watch whatever it is that offends them and allow those who enjoy it to watch it in peace.

BB:Hello Xander...and Anya, how is your money?!

A:Fine!Thank you for asking!

[Sheridan]

While the complaints are just plain ignorant (after all its not the first time they've kissed and considering what goes on in Eastenders...), the BBC carries a certain responsibility for their continued insistence on broadcasting Buffy at a time that simply isn't suitable for the program. 6:45 is simply too early and the BBC have been told so in the past by fans. It isn't impossible to schedule these shows properly; Five bought Angel and have scheduled it at 8:00pm on Mondays.

Willow: ...I have to tell you....

Tara: No, I understand you have to be with the person you l-love

Willow: I am