What if...

[Wolfie]

Had a thought. (don't think this has been done before, but mods - if it has, then throw me into any existing threads on this )

What if Buffy had finished at the end of Season 5 ... What effect would that have? How would it have changed the Kitten board - how would it have changed the way we see the series? Would you be glad, in retrospect? Those of you who have seen S6 so far, are you glad it's carried on? (Without spoilers, if you can - I'm talking "I feel that ..." statements, not "Oh, yeah, when Willow did such and such and Tara said ..." which is likely to cause much foot stamping)

What with the demise of the X-Files, I was wondering about this. Do you think Buffy would have been better by stopping, or do you think there is life in the old horse yet?

Personally, having not seen S6 yet, I'm at one of those interesting crossroads: I could choose not to see any more episodes. I will, without a shadow of a doubt - the forthcoming pain sounds far too much fun to miss - but still...

Thoughts?

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*Sings*
Oh, you can tell, by the rapture on my face,
That synthetic fur makes for a sensual embrace!

I

[Tara Maclay]

Interesting thought. Too early to make me think this much! :-)

I feel that there's definitely life in the old horse, because we're being taken to such new levels with the characters this season (albeit slowly).

Yes, they could have ended things with S5, but there really are too many stories left to explore, and the amount of subplot left unwrapped might possibly have driven me completely batty.

Finally finding out the depth of Spike's feelings and rehabilitation, wondering what the future holds for W/T and X/A, figuring out where Dawnie is headed....these things are the meat of the show.

Sure, last season you had a nice show-stopper with Glory and the Death of Buffy, but what the show is doing now is *much* more intriguing to me: denouement. I really hate when you get to the end of a piece of fiction (film, book, whatever), and the evil has been vanquished and the good guy 'wins', but they never bother to tell you who mopped up the mess and just how they managed to explain everything to the police.

When a show is as character driven as BtVS, it's really not the momentous victories and sweeps-stunts that bring us all back time and again, but the character arcs, and that's why I eventually decided that I like this season (especially with the possibility of no external Big Bad, just internal conflict) more than I originally thought. The people out there bitching about a lack of focus/Big Bad this season aren't getting the point:

We've Seen Our Enemy, And He Is Us.

The true Buffy-addicts get this, even though the aforementioned disappointed fans don't. This show was never a true 'action' show, and isn't designed around set-pieces and plot-contrivances. It's about a group of characters who are (arguably) the most well-written characters in the history of the medium.

I'm ready for whatever Mutant Enemy throws my way, because I have admitted that I am powerless over Buffy.

That's the first step, you know? :-)

love,

e.

I

[Kalita]

EricAlan has a very good point - as fun as the Big Bads are on this show, they're still all secondary characters we rarely see again, and it's not so much their Evil Plots in themselves as what effect they have on the main characters.

Look at Glory - we didn't care so much that she wanted to destroy the world, so much as she went through Dawn and Tara to accomplish that.

Angel's loss and regain of his soul, the Mayor's corruption of Faith, these all are along the same lines. The most interesting thing is, by now it's come to the point where the Big Bad doesn't have to be big, the main characters are their own worst nightmare.

Which makes it all the more interesting.

I

[Tara Maclay]

Hmm.. intresting...

Personaly i reckon the show has enough steam left in it. But it should end on S7 and not go the route of the X-Files (though that show picke dup a bit in year 8).

However, Joss' universe has a vast number of possibilities and i say let it continue in Spin-offs. W/T show anyone? Also feature films or TV Movies like babylon 5 did. not over kill but to keep a regular dosage of Buffy. we've still got a few years of Angel, the animated series and The Ripper to look foward to!

The futures bright. the futures Joss.

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"Liberate tutemet ex inferis"

"She's my everything"
- Willow

"For some people small beautiful events are what life is all about"
- 5th Doctor

"We all have a Universe of our own terrors to face"
- 7th Doctor

I

[Tara Maclay]

I would be bitter. Very bitter. And I bet I wouldn't be the only bitter kitty.

I

[Tara Maclay]

I have only seen 3 eps of season 6 but i am glad they have carried on, i am throughly enjoying the darkness and the new path of the show.

I

[Tara Maclay]

cant really tell if the shows running out of steam til it progresses further. to me it has always been a much better show than the x files much better written and more unpredictable. i love watching the characters unfold and as long as it keeps unfolding im happy.

I

[Tara Maclay]

Being fairly new to Buffy and having major gaps in my Season 1-4 knowledge. I have a hard time with the Season Six bashing (not here, but in other forums). I have found most of the Episodes this season to very good, and only a couple that I felt were throw aways.

I enjoy seeing the characters grow up, and the show become less of a monster of the week fest.

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"Everyone's getting spanked but me."

I

[Tara Maclay]

Hiya, folks...

I'm a newbie to this board, and a (relative) newcomer to Buffy, as well. But thanks to reruns on our local sci-fi channel Space, I've seen most of seasons 1 - 5. I also picked up the season 1 DVDs a couple of weeks ago.

Personally, I'm enjoying S6 thus far, though with some reservations. But I can appreciate they're trying to do something different with the show, even if it's not entirely successful. So I'm glad they continued it beyond S5. Frankly, I wouldn't mind if Buffy goes past next season, even up to season 10, as long as: (a.) At least most of the current cast sticks around & (b.) the creativity remains fresh. Those are admittedly iffy points, especially the latter, but they're not impossible. Most tv shows do indeed turn into absolute crap if they're left running too long, but not all do. Buffy might just be one of the lucky ones with genuine longevity...

I

[Tara Maclay]

I think if they'd ended in Season 5, it would have been a good way to end - it was so powerful. But the way they've continued, in my opinion, has been very sucessful, and the show has just got better.

Beyond Season 7 I don't see a future - not because I think they couldn't go on, but because of the possibility they might not be able to. I'd rather see the show stop on a high point than continue. There's no way they could end it after Season 6 - so far it's not been a Season about resolving the story of the Slayer as a whole, which is what they'd need to end the show sucessfully.

I'd like to see spin-offs, though. That way there'd be less pressure to be as good as the original - people don't get so bothered when there's a bad episode of 'Angel'.

I

[Tara Maclay]

Good question, Wolfie! If the series had ended after S5, I would have felt gutted, but I wouldn't have felt cheated. The story arc for Buffy was executed to perfection and was true to the show's detailed mythology and true to the characters. It was a devestating, but perfect, ending.

I think a couple of things set Buffy apart from other long-running shows that stumbled in later seasons. First, unlike the X-Files, Buffy's characters are the most important element to the story. They are the focus, the mythology is just a tool to explore the characters' emotions. The X-Files seemed to be much more enamoured with its mythology and pushed human emotions to the background. Credit Gillian Anderson for making Scully very human, because I don't think she had a lot of help from the scripts a lot of the time. Joss has always recognized that people care about the characters, not the monsters. So, since Buffy is so good at focusing on emotions, I don't think the show will get stale as fast as others. (Speaking of mythology, BtVS is much truer to its story than The X-Files ever was and gets a bigger payoff as a result.)

Second, not only does Joss recognize that characters are the most important thing, he allows them to truly GROW. Those poor saps over on 90210 were doing the same lame things no matter if they were 18 or 28. Buffy's characters are allowed to change and become something different than they were. Really different. Willow is very unlike she was in the early seasons. Buffy has matured in ways I've rarely seen on the small screen (if ever!). Spike is a fascinating exploration of change...or not. His arc is complex enough to spark strong debate amongst viewers. Wonderful! Buffy will have a longer shelf life than other shows because it is unafraid to reflect real growth and change in its characters. It's rare and it's fresh.

I tend to think the show will end after S7 because I think SMG will leave. But I think the storylines will still be there if she wanted to continue.

Amy

[This message has been edited by Willowlicious (edited January 23, 2002).]

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[Tara Maclay]

I have to admit, I am really looking forward to Season 6, whenever I get to see it (that popping sound is due to the blood vessels bursting in my head!) I do very much agree that Buffy's difference is the fact that the characters are constantly changing, and this does give the show a chance at staying fresh. I like, no, I love the chances Joss and co take when making the series, and because the show is about growing up, well, we don't ever stop doing that, so there's a wealth of opportunities still to explore. I'm personally looking forward to the absence of a Big bad, and the darker subject matter - Willow has always been my fav, and I just love going on dark journeys with favourite characters, so am hoping it's gonna be a really rough ride.

But my hope is Joss, when he decides to pull the plug, manages to do it with not only a bang, but in a huge explosion. Something that will have Buffy fans stunned. Something that we'll remember, and cause us to speak of in hushed tones. That sort of thing. Dale Cooper nutting the bathroom mirror and turning into Killer Bob was one thing. I want this to be so much more. I want this to be stunning the way Salinger's "A Great Day for Bananafish" is when it ends, or even Coupland's Generation X, with that amazing scene in the stubble field - something that makes you laugh and cry and burp, all at the same time, and then go "wow", once you've regained your breath, which should be at least two hours later.

Salinger is a good comparison: I read The Catcher in the Rye, then found out he'd stopped after four books. I thought "good for him - they're his characters, he can do what he wants with them". Then, of course, I read the others (Franny and Zooey changed my life - I adore that book), and when I'd finished the last, I was devastated. "Bastard", I screamed. "I need more - moooorrreeeeee!!!" But now I've gotten over it, I don't know. There's supposed to be all this stuff just there, sitting in a safe at his house, and apparently, rumour has it he never stopped. What if they publish them all when he dies? I'm not sure I could read them, you know? Well, Buffy's kind of like that. What if Joss just stopped? No denouement. Just stopped, and said "no more. That's it: You've had my last". I know I'd complain as much as everyone else, but I think I would admire him for it, too. Maybe, fifty years later, we catch up with Willow and Tara "Old and grey, and rounding a corner in Istanbul (sp?)", and there we are again. Would be kinda nice.

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*Sings*
Oh, you can tell, by the rapture on my face,
That synthetic fur makes for a sensual embrace!

I

[Tara Maclay]

I personally think that if Buffy stopped at the end of season 5 i would have been very satisfied. I to thought of this for a long time. Mostly over the summer. From what i have seen this season and i had the choice i would have (sorry season 6 lovers!) had the show end. It ended so perfect Buffy got her gift and we got to a ending that would have been satisfing. Buffy now is turning into a more of a comedy and not really focusing on the "fanstasy" side of the show as much. It mostly is just going downhill i think. Don't get me wrong I still LOVE the show but i think it isn't living up to what is what in the first few seasons. I hope that it can liven up a bit before the end of the season.

[This message has been edited by Sam89 (edited January 23, 2002).]

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[Tara]

It really would have wrapped it all up if the series would have ended at season 5. I think I read somewhere that Joss likes the stories to get finished during the season finale...just in case there is not another season. The season 5 ending was need and fitting.

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"She practically has 'genuine molded plastic' stamped on her ass.

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[Tara]

I'm so glad that the Willow and Tara show (aka Bvts) didn't end after S5. I'd be very very upset if I didn't get to see more Willow and Tara goodness.

I

[Tara]

And not have OMWF? Tabula Rasa?

S5 just left me wanting more. Perhaps that is how a show should end; but, however, whenever Buffy ends it wil still be too soon!

I

[Tara]

quote:

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Originally posted by Shadowcat:
I would be bitter. Very bitter. And I bet I wouldn't be the only bitter kitty.

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Would be? God, what does that make me? I'm already so bitter I have a face that permanently looks like I'm sucking a lemon...

The end of Season 5 did give Buffy an out, I suppose. But you know, after such sacrifice, the only way to go is to resolve that. Besides, as we know from another story where somebody was killed for the good of mankind, that's never really the end...

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"Bitter, party of one. Bitter, party of one." she muttered... ~ Four Months After by Capt. Murdock

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[Tara]

You mean, in two thousand year's time, a team of eccentric comedians will write a show called "Brian The Vampire Slayer"?

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*Sings*
Oh, you can tell, by the rapture on my face,
That synthetic fur makes for a sensual embrace!

I

[Tara]

Wolfie-

To borrow a phrase from Ron Granger, "That's bloody brilliant!"

love,

e.

I