Skip to content


Possible lesbian storyline on "Once and Again"

DO NOT POST - Backup in Progress

Possible lesbian storyline on "Once and Again"

Postby Dazey » Sun Dec 09, 2001 5:36 pm

Anyone else here watch this show? I started watching it at the end of last season because a couple of friends highly recommended it, and because the folks who created and produce it also did My So-Called Life, which is my second-favorite show ever (right behind BtVS, of course). It's a family drama that deals with a newly-married forty-something couple and their various children, exes, siblings, etc. Overall I haven't been terribly impressed...it's nicely written but saddled with many TV-drama clichés. (Example: one of the characters is pregnant--next week, according to the preview, she goes into labor just as a huge snowstorm blankets the city! Oh no! She can't get to the hospital! And the daddy is stuck in his car! Who will deliver the baby?! Sigh. I don't know--the plumber? That's what happened on an episode of Family Ties I caught last week on Nick at Nite.) Also, the regular cast is enormous; half of them don't show up in any given ep, and if none of the characters I like is present it gets mighty boring. Mostly I like it when the focus is on the kids (for some reason I can't relate to the problems of a divorced and remarried het couple in their 40s)--in particular I like the character of Grace, played with luminous intensity by an actress named Julia Whelan. Grace reminds me a lot of MSCL's Angela, played with even greater luminous intensity by Claire Danes, the only actress for whom my adoration has ever approached (though not equalled--not even close, now I think about it) what I feel for Amber Benson.

Man, I take a while in getting to my point, don't I? It's the English major in me...gotta set everything up first. Anyway....

Grace's stepsister is Jessie, sweetly played by a delicately-pretty young actress named Evan Rachel Wood. I'm not sure exactly how old Jessie is, I'm guessing 14 or 15. In last year's story arc she battled anorexia...so far this year she hasn't had much to do.

However. In the ep that aired the week before last, Jessie went out on her first date, with a guy named Tad (ew). The date was engineered by Tad's rather energetic friend Katie (played by Mischa Barton from The Sixth Sense), who seemed to display an awfully big interest in Jessie. At a party, Tad tried to put the moves on Jessie, who pushed him away...he persisted, whereupon Jessie was "rescued" by Katie. Later that night, Jessie had a conversation with her mother wherein she expressed concern that she felt no desire to kiss Tad, a boy she thought she liked. Hmmm, says I. Her mother's reaction was, it'll happen for you when the time is right. Okay, I'll buy that. But then, towards the end of the ep, there was a bit of intense conversation between Jessie and Katie (Katie seems very intense by nature), with Katie offering to set up another date with Tad and Jessie demurring, followed by some intense looking. In particular, after the talk was over and Jessie was walking away, she took a long look back toward Katie that really made me go hmmm. I know that look.

So I tuned in again this past week to see what was up. Unfortunately I got a phone call just as the show started and I missed most of it. Here's what I did see at the end: a bit of an argument--apparently there was another girl involved, for some reason Katie couldn't be "friends" with both her and Jessie, so Katie tells Jessie, "I choose you." All of a sudden I'm getting a serious W/T vibe, I'm not sure why. Then Katie slowly reaches out her hand, and Jessie somewhat hesitantly takes it, and I swear I think they were trying to do a "Hush"! I really really do. Unfortunately the moment didn't begin to think about beginning to think about starting to being to think about approaching the massive intensity of the hand-hold in "Hush"...but it was a sweet scene. And then Jessie got a little smile on her face (think Willow after "I am, you know...yours") and said, all kind of dreamy Southern-belle-like, "Listen to the rain." It was um, raining outside.

So I'm like, okay, something's going on here. Just to be sure I wasn't seeing the world through dyke-colored glasses, I took a quick look at some O&A message boards, and yes, people were picking up on it (and hey, the reaction I saw was positive!). There was definite major subtext, and I feel certain, absolutely certain, that the writers and producers of this show have been paying attention to the W/T storyline and are trying to take a cue from it. Unfortunately, given what I said earlier about the show being saddled with clichés, I don't exactly have high hopes for this relationship following along similar lines. If I had to make a prediction, it would be: they develop this for a bit, eventually there's a kiss (February sweeps, anyone? Though they can't really hype it too much, or attempt to titillate male viewers, given the young age of the characters involved), after which Jessie decides that this isn't right for her, she really does want to kiss boys, she just isn't ready. Whereupon Katie, the real lesbian, promptly disappears from the show forever.

But who knows? This could be a chance to see if W/T have had any real impact on mainstream TV drama. I'm going to keep a close eye on this storyline as it progresses, and I'll keep you guys informed--watch this thread for updates!

Editing because I forgot to say that the show airs Fridays at 10 PM on ABC. They also show reruns on Lifetime, but I'm not sure when.

------------------
Night and day I dream of making love to you now, baby
Love-making onscreen, impossible dream

[This message has been edited by Dazey (edited December 09, 2001).]

Dazey
 


Possible lesbian storyline on "Once and Again"

Postby rocketdyke » Sun Dec 09, 2001 5:52 pm

every great once in a while, i catch this show because... well ill admit. i have a terrible crush on sela ward. my god how i love her.

so i have seen none of what you talk about dazey, as i havent watched the show for a long time, but i for one would be totally interested in hearing about what happens with this story line and what you think of it.

i actually find the total cliched cheesiness of this show rather charming. especially those black and white monologues that remind of commercials for long distance phone companies... or banks.

rocketdyke
 


Possible lesbian storyline on "Once and Again"

Postby xita » Sun Dec 09, 2001 5:58 pm

Well I wouldn't be surprised the people behind this show have had a gay character in everyone of their shows.
Thirtysomething
My So called Life
Relativity

In fact this show is the only one that hadn't. When it started zelda and I had conversations about which characters could be gay. Jesse seemed young and sela ward's sister seemed a possibility at first but proved to be very straight.

I would not worry too much about this being done for ratings. Relativity had a straight up honest lesbian who even began to have a love life before the show got cancelled. And it wasn't an angsty are you gay type of relationship, both women wanted it. They had a great kiss, one of top 3 lesbian kisses on american tv, w/t heading my list of course

I am going to have to tune in again.

xita
 


Possible lesbian storyline on "Once and Again"

Postby JackieS » Sun Dec 09, 2001 5:58 pm

totally picked up on that, i was going hmmmmm all through the ep. and just to make sure that I wasn't seeing thru "dyke-colored glasses, a few of my friends were also watching the show and were all left hmmmmm-ing (make sense? didn't think so )

------------------
"If I met a woman who was amazing, that's a different thing entirely. You never know! I'm open to whatever comes. But right now I like guys."
-Amber

JackieS
 


Possible lesbian storyline on "Once and Again"

Postby Rane » Sun Dec 09, 2001 7:22 pm

there was a time when i thought grace, whom my mum thinks looks like she could be tara's younger sister, might have a crush on eli's old girlfriend. she had a talk with her mom where she said she liked her or something. i dont remember anymore.

I think the girls who play jessie and grace are spectacular actresses. i LOVE them. however i dont watch the show that much anymore. as mentioned, it has too many characters and sometimes you wont see one for weeks. but i do think it's very well written and sela ward is gorgeous! she looks like my mum. probably why i've always watched all her shows. silly reason, i know.

let us know how it develops if at all. i'd think having a 15 year old recoving anorexic child of divorce living with step family lesbian could be interesting to watch. plus she kicks ass and i LOVED her shrink. he rocked.

------------------
TARA- We're forgetting about the troll. Let's pay attention to the troll.

Rane
 


Possible lesbian storyline on "Once and Again"

Postby fell » Sun Dec 09, 2001 9:31 pm

i started watching this show recently. despite its oft cliched cheesiness it's kind of amusing. they're certainly hinting at a lesbian subtext though whether they'd have the courage to actually go through with it i don't know, esp if the character jessie is supposed to be as young as she looks. i'll have to pay attention and see what grade she's supposed to be in. the scene with the hand holding and the comment about the rain definitely resonated. given that this is the same group that produced the sorely missed Relativity (i loved that show!) i doubt it was unintentional. still, it wouldn't surprise me if they copped out and went with the cliche. it is, after all, a major network.

i totally agree with rane and dazey that julia whelan (grace) is exceptionally talented. she's the one who grabbed my attention and got me watching.

fell
 


Possible lesbian storyline on "Once and Again"

Postby Popje » Sun Dec 09, 2001 9:39 pm

I totally picked up on it too. I thought I was imagining it, but the "lesbian teen" storyline is definately being implied. There was a conversation on this week's show where the new friend was talking to Jessie about not hiding who you are and showing the real self, and how weird she felt on the inside,b ut no one noticed...and the "its raining" comment and a lot of long staring...So I think that's where they're headed. I'll be interested in seeing how they will tie this in to Jessies anorexia storyline...

BTW I love the show too. It has a quiet power (despite cliches). I think Once And Again just gets at the heart of family and personal struggles and makes them, well, heroic. I too love Grace, lovely actress, everything she does rings true...and Sela Ward is hot. Something charismatic about that lady.

Popje
 


Possible lesbian storyline on "Once and Again"

Postby terrapin » Sun Dec 09, 2001 9:45 pm

Thank god that you mentioned this Dazey. I knew that someone from this board had to watch the show, and pick up on it as I did. When Katie reached out her hand to Jessie and said "I choose you" it so reminded me of Willow and Tara. I totally got the gay vibe going on between those two girls. But I'm unsure of how their relationship will develop. Who knows?

I used to watch the show, but then I stopped. And I saw a preview for Friday's ep, and saw the part when Grace asks Eli, why he doesn't ask her to smoke pot with her. So I was like Pot! Cool! So I taped it b/c I was out. I really think that it is an excellent show. I really like the character Grace. She so reminds me of Amber Benson. She is really an awsome actress.

terrapin
 


Possible lesbian storyline on "Once and Again"

Postby Xanadu » Sun Dec 09, 2001 11:35 pm

I'm so glad someone else saw that! I watched the show quite a bit last year, because I really like Grace's character, but I hadn't seen very many episodes this season. I was home on Friday, though,and boy did that attic scene catch my attention! I was watching with my roomates, though, neither of which know about me, so I didn't mention it, and they didn't seem to notice anything, so I thought maybe I imagined it! It's cool to see the backgroud, I hadn't seen an ep with Kate in it before, so I figured I as just crazy, thanks for the info Dazey! I'll have to start watching it again...
Xanadu
 


Possible lesbian storyline on "Once and Again"

Postby Spell Gal » Mon Dec 10, 2001 12:47 am

Okay, we're way behind here in Australia, but at least there seems to be some interesting stuff developing by the looks of it...

Glad to know my friends and I aren't the only ones who see the Amber Benson and Julia Whelan similarity, although I think it's more early Tara/Grace...When it first started we could never remember Grace's name so just called her Baby Tara...

------------------
And how long have you known that your girlfriend's Tinkerbell?

Spell Gal
 


Possible lesbian storyline on "Once and Again"

Postby JackieS » Mon Dec 10, 2001 1:30 am

oh yeah, Jesse is a sophmore now i think - last season she was starting her freshman year - or, i'm really out of it and she's still in her freshman year, anywho she's 14 - 15 ....

and here i was thinking i could have been informative, who am i kidding.....

------------------
"If I met a woman who was amazing, that's a different thing entirely. You never know! I'm open to whatever comes. But right now I like guys."
-Amber

JackieS
 


Possible lesbian storyline on "Once and Again"

Postby Scoobiedoo » Mon Dec 10, 2001 1:35 am

quote:
Originally posted by xita:
They had a great kiss, one of top 3 lesbian kisses on american tv, w/t heading my list of course


So what is the other kiss in your top 3 then xita?

------------------
I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.
quote:

Scoobiedoo
 


Possible lesbian storyline on "Once and Again"

Postby Tara » Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:20 am

Hmm, gives me a reason to start watching the show again. Plus Shane West, I need no more reason then that
Tara
 


Possible lesbian storyline on "Once and Again"

Postby Caity » Mon Dec 10, 2001 8:16 am

Hmm.. this DOES sound interesting!!! I wonder how far we actually ARE behind in Australia...

Keep us posted!!

Caity

Caity
 


Possible lesbian storyline on "Once and Again"

Postby Ange » Mon Dec 10, 2001 9:47 am

Oh!!! i'd like to see that. anyone know some caps, sounds or video pages, i have to wait a little bit more than a year to see it. please, help me!!!

ange.

Ange
 


Possible lesbian storyline on "Once and Again"

Postby Zahir » Mon Dec 10, 2001 11:50 am

I've watched this show a few times, thought it was generally well-done (especially well-acted) but somehow it never grabbed me. Maybe because I do prefer fantasy, science fiction, etc. Whatever.

But I'll give this another look, though.

------------------
"O let my name be in the Book of Love.
If it be there, I care not of
That other book Above...
Strike it out! Or write it in anew.
But let it be in the Book of Love!"
--Omar Kyam

Zahir
 


Possible lesbian storyline on "Once and Again"

Postby *Willow* » Mon Dec 10, 2001 12:09 pm

Oh Gosh,

great to hear these news, but german fans are not having that much luck -again-.
They showed "once & again" here about a year ago and cancelled the show after only 6 or 7 episodes...because of the ratings...
btw, that was the same network which cancelled "Ally McBeal" after a few episodes (also because of the same reason)...but they took it back on the program after massive protests from the viewers! (and now they know WHY!)

I hope they are going to show "once & again" again too...Btw..the german name of the show was "once more with feeling"...doesn't that remind you of something?

*Willow*

[This message has been edited by *Willow* (edited December 10, 2001).]

*Willow*
 


Possible lesbian storyline on "Once and Again"

Postby imperfectly » Mon Dec 10, 2001 12:56 pm

quote:
Originally posted by xita:
I would not worry too much about this being done for ratings.

Well, I’d have to agree. If it’s handled by the My So-Called Life folks, it’ll be handled well. (To go off on a brief tangent…I LOVED that show, too..."You're so beautiful, it hurts to look at you.")

Don’t you love when you can just tell about a character (or real person, for that matter). Something subtle. A look. A touch that lasts seconds too long. Proof positive gaydar exists.

Anyway, now I’m going to have to start watching Once and Again. Plus, Katie’s character is played by Mischa Barton who also starred as Mouse in the sumptuous movie Lost & Delirious. And, I found a photo of the actress who plays Jessie posing with Michelle Trachtenberg. (Wait...sorry, momentarily thought I was on the six degress of separation thread...)


------------------
Well, now that came out a lot more lesbian than it sounded in my head.
quote:

imperfectly
 


Possible lesbian storyline on "Once and Again"

Postby xita » Mon Dec 10, 2001 11:48 pm

Aesthetically speaking, the kiss on deep space nine between dax and lenara. Shot from a good angle, no hiding and nice hmm fluid exchange. Nice kiss, too bad the context was so horrid.

So that's the third kiss! WT in the body of course...still curls my toes!

xita
 


Possible lesbian storyline on "Once and Again"

Postby Dr.G » Tue Dec 11, 2001 12:09 am

Hmmm, Xita Xita Xita, tsssk, I would have thought those other TV kisses would take a back seat to those two W/T smoochies from the Bargaining and All the Way, however brief they were. That would make the other ones no 4 and 5, or so it should.
Dr.G
 


Possible lesbian storyline on "Once and Again"

Postby Fuzz » Tue Dec 11, 2001 12:34 am

quote:
Originally posted by xita:
Relativity had a straight up honest lesbian who even began to have a love life before the show got cancelled. And it wasn't an angsty are you gay type of relationship, both women wanted it. They had a great kiss

Ooohh!I remember that kiss,with the earthquack simulated!!! Too bad the show have ended.
I so wanna know what heppen to them next.

* sigh *
When TV. show happy gay relationship with no angst...it's just so nice, don't u think?

So,Jassie?WOW!!I didn't watch the show very often but if there's something going on between them,it would be really cool.I mean I want to see how her charecter grows..oh!those teenager issue ,u know Beside,she's adorable

Talk later when we are getting more vibe 'bout it.
quote:

Fuzz
 


Possible lesbian storyline on "Once and Again"

Postby Kalrn » Tue Dec 11, 2001 12:35 am

Forgive me for sounding presumptuous, but Xita really should be saving #1 for the Big Hot Makeup Smoochies we'll get before W/T...well, get into that other part of making up.
Kalrn
 


Possible lesbian storyline on "Once and Again"

Postby xita » Tue Dec 11, 2001 1:00 am

Oh garfield and karln, yes I should clarify, any kiss between W/T shall have slots 1-through whatever. So those 2 other kisses are second best after any w/t kiss, including forehead kisses!

Fuzz, yes that earthquake scene, very cute!

xita
 


Possible lesbian storyline on "Once and Again"

Postby *Willow* » Tue Dec 11, 2001 4:50 am

Hi,

can anyone please tell me, if there is a chance to see some pics of those episodes you are talking about of "once and again"?
Any site you can tell me about?!
Many thanx in advance!

*Willow*
 


Possible lesbian storyline on "Once and Again"

Postby fell » Tue Dec 11, 2001 6:40 am

I'm still waiting for a W&T liplock like B/S at the end of OMWF for my #1 tv lesbian kiss; i mean, we still haven't had a full-on romantic make-out type kiss and now i'm feeling like writing an angry letter cuz they've been sleeping together now for pete's sake going on 2 years!

As for Jessie on O&A, it would be intense for her to be crushing on a girl because, yeah, 15, but also because they just did a whole arc about her "first date". Which sort of implies that if they went that way it would skip right past "exploring her sexuality" to "hey i'm gay!"
This show suffers from a mild case of Capeside Syndrome in that they all over-analyze themselves and each other, so there seems to be more analysis than spontaneous action.

Meanwhile, back on 7th Heaven, i'm still wondering which one of the kids is going to be first to crack and take their parents hostage with a homemade pipe bomb. I think i'm watching too much tv- a sure sign of Buffy withdrawal

fell
 


Possible lesbian storyline on "Once and Again"

Postby An » Tue Dec 11, 2001 3:05 pm

quote:
Originally posted by rocketdyke:
every great once in a while, i catch this show because... well ill admit. i have a terrible crush on sela ward. my god how i love her.

Wow! I am not alone! Did you watch Sisters too? I found out about this series on Oprah but this dutch channel only recently started showing it.

quote:

i actually find the total cliched cheesiness of this show rather charming. especially those black and white monologues that remind of commercials for long distance phone companies... or banks.

Yeah, I love those monologues. I always thought that pretty original! I mean, no other series I have seen uses those. And even though it may be cheesy, I love the dialogues. I don't cry a lot but when Jake felt hurt after his company got bad publicity (remember that?) I was crying on the couch!

Anyway, Jessie getting something with another girl-- I don't see that as a ratings stunt. She's much too young for that. And because she's that young, I love the fact that they're doing it. I think it's promising, especially as she's that young and she hasn't had a date with a boy before.

Annekequote:quote:

An
 


Possible lesbian storyline on "Once and Again"

Postby Dazey » Tue Dec 11, 2001 5:07 pm

I forgot to mention in my original post that apparently the title of last Friday's ep was "Tough Love"! I don't really get how it applies, but hey...coincidence?

And perhaps I am being too harsh in my assumption that this show will take the cliché route. I wasn't aware of the gay character on Relativity; I never watched that show even once. And the character of Rickie on MSCL was truly wonderful, easily the most well-rounded gay male character that I've ever seen on television. It sucks that the show ended so early and we never got to see him have a relationship. But thirtysomething, that was the show that Joss was complaining about, saying that he felt the gay character was treated poorly, right? I never really watched that one either.

Anyway, I'm really hoping this goes well. Another thing that might be a positive factor is that the show has never done well ratings-wise, and may not be back next season. If the producers feel they have nothing to lose, they might be willing to take more chances, undertake more challenging and provocative storylines. Keep your fingers crossed.

------------------
Night and day I dream of making love to you now, baby
Love-making onscreen, impossible dream

Dazey
 


Possible lesbian storyline on "Once and Again"

Postby SweetMamaJane » Fri Dec 14, 2001 6:28 am

Just a reminder -- they are repeating this episode on Lifetime tonight at 11. It was a great episode! I highly recommend it.
SweetMamaJane
 


Possible lesbian storyline on "Once and Again"

Postby Hugin » Fri Dec 14, 2001 7:38 am

Dazey, in defense of the creators of Thirtysomething, they were under some of the most intense network and conservative political group pressure network TV has ever seen. The whole plotline and bed scene was on the national news for over a week, politicians were forced to make dumb position statements about it, etc, and ABC wound up losing over a million dollars in advertising revenue for the "bed scene" episode that did wind up airing.

The scene itself is a joke, it's so incredibly timid, but I don't really blame Herskovitz and Zwick, considering the climate at the time.

-len

Hugin
 


Possible lesbian storyline on "Once and Again"

Postby eekiboo » Sun Dec 16, 2001 12:34 am

quote:
Originally posted by Fuzz:
Ooohh!I remember that kiss,with the earthquack simulated!!! Too bad the show have ended.
I so wanna know what heppen to them next.

* sigh *
When TV. show happy gay relationship with no angst...it's just so nice, don't u think?


Fuzz, i second your *sigh*! re: Relativity! i watched that scene over and over, the kiss during the earthquake simulation. that was so sexy and if i do remember right, there were tongues involved. (come on Joss, give us something like that with W/T, pweeety pweaase?) too bad i don't have the Relativity kiss on tape anymore coz i sent it to my sis and that was a long time ago. i was heartbroken when the show got cancelled! wasn't it the last part was when the guy asked the girl to marry him? (i forgot their names... i think the girl's name was Izzy?) i hate it when networks don't give shows a chance.

btw, has anyone watched ER's Dr. Weaver ask her new found "friend" on a date? they finally went on a lunch date during the Christmas ep last Thursday. yeah maaaaan! atleast they're advancing her lesbian storyline!

oh, pls do tell us what happens next on Once and Again. thanks and peace!

quote:

eekiboo
 

Next

Return to Board index

Return to Novogate Backup Kitten

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Powered by phpBB The phpBB Group © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007
Style based on a Cosa Nostra Design