S6 Big Bad- anyone feel like speculating?

[Wiccagrrl]

Not sure if this should go under an existing thread, but anyway...

I've been hearing a lot of speculation, especially on certain other boards, about this year's "Big Bad" and was just curious what people here thought. Personally, I think it's likely that we may not have a traditional Big Bad this year. Especially after Wrecked, I'm convinced Willow's not a likely candidate. Same with Spike. Both are kinda too obvious and yet don't seem to fit the profile. The Lame Gunmen? Well, possibly, but they're kinda, y'know, lame. They'd be more a little bad. Tara, Buffy, Xander, or Dawn? Nah, nothing there really. Unless there's a real twist brewing about Buffy and that "coming back wrong" thing, but I *really* don't think so. If that happens, if Buffy ever becomes the villain (which is unlikely) I'd bet it'd be in the show's last season.

I'd almost like to see it be Anya (Anyanka), just cause, well, there's a good story there. And X/A have had such an easy time of it lately, that it seems like they're due for some strife. And it'd be an interesting reversal of Angel going bad in season 2. Course, I wouldn't want to loose Anya from the show, but it's got potential.

Rack? Maybe. So is the possibility that we haven't seen the Big Bad yet, that it'll be introduced soon. Or my favorite theory, that there won't be a specific Big Bad, but it'll be more about the Scoobies dealing with their issues. I mean, how do you top fighting a god? You go smaller, more personal.

So, any thoughts?

[Dr.G]

Well it would be easier to say who I do *not* think it will be than who I think it will be.

Just once more with feeling: *NOT* Willow.

Maybe Rack, he is creepy enough, and maybe Amy and those lame gunmen will get sucked into it.

[Xanadu]

Well, I used to think that it might be Willow, but definatly not anymore. I can't really see any of the other scoobies being big bad...even Spike, way too obvious. I think it'll either be Amy, one of the Lame Gunmen, or someone we haven't met yet. Probably it's none of those theories, and Joss has something way more creative under construction Maybe it's top secret...that would explain the current lack of spoilers!

Amy

[This message has been edited by Xanadu (edited December 06, 2001).]

[Blixxt]

While I still think it's possible Willow will be the Big Bad, I'm currently leaning against it. It just seems too obvious, but then again maybe this will be the obvious season.

I am fairly certain it will not be the Supernerds. Marti Noxon said in one of the earlier interviews that they are the "Little Bads" of the season (I believe she specifically called them the medium bads)

I also don't think it's going to be Amy. In Wrecked she was shown to be weaker than Willow, and Rack was instantly drawn to our favorite redhead instead.

I also don't think it's going to be Rack, but that's just my gut speaking. My guess is that if isn't 'Dark Willow', it's something we haven't seen yet. While it could just be a metaphorical big bad (i.e. life), I'm gonna go with some supernatural thing that will result from a mixture of Willow using dark magic (after falling off the wagon), the Supernerds, and possibly Amy and Rack. Or something like that.

[This message has been edited by Blixxt (edited December 06, 2001).]

[Egostrike]

I think its become clear at this point that the "big bad" this season is life, and growing up. Buffy has to learn to deal with living again, Xander and Anya with getting married, and making a big step there, Willow coping with her addiction, and tara coping with it as well. I think its fair to say the big bad this season is just Life.

[xita]

I think it will be Warren. I think Warren is way creepier than the other 2 geeks. Plus, I think the troika is the part of the lesson of growing up. You have something that is fairly innocuous that when ignored will turn into something very serious. It is the lesson that seems to be getting repeated over and over again. So I wouldn't be surprised if the big bad came from that theme.

And no Willow will not be the big bad, why people can't understand that is beyond me!

[Ronin]

I'm still in limbo on this one. I feel like Willow still has the potential to be the Big Bad only because she's headed for relapse hell, no thanks to Buffy of course. But on the other hand, it seems as though the idea of 'life' is the big bad. The fact that they are all growing up. Giles is gone. Dawn is out of danger and now just a regular teenager. Anya and Xander are taking this huge step. Buffy and Willow have lost touch with each other and they both have their problems.
Like i said, i think Willow still has the potential to be the Big Bad, but in all likelyhood, it's going to be a combination of everything.

[Warduke]

I think it may very well be life, growing up but if it is an actual person/demon, then it very well could be Warren, he is not like the other two, Jonathan and Andrew are just nerds but Warren is dark, you can easily see it.

I don't see Rack or Amy as the big bad either, and Willow as the big bad...please

[This message has been edited by Warduke (edited December 06, 2001).]

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Rane
Big Pineapple


Posts: 1130
Registered: Sep 2000 posted December 06, 2001 01:09               

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i dont think thre'll be a big bad this year, just a bunch of little ones. amy, rack, the troika, spike, anything is up for me, i dont care as long as w/t get back together.

is Rack a subbubus? or is it incubus? one of those?

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dusty
Blessed Wannabe


Posts: 19
Registered: Oct 2001 posted December 06, 2001 01:38               

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At this point, I doubt Willow will be the big bad, although I think it's possible. I was, however, reading a site that talked about how the Buffy formula usually includes a little bad, betrayer, and a big bad. If they follow that formula it seems possible to me that she could be the betrayer, but I'm far from sure.

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perspixx
Blessed Wannabe


Posts: 13
Registered: Nov 2001 posted December 06, 2001 01:46               

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The growing up as a big bad thing is too much like an after-school special than prime-time TV.

I think it's too early to really say they're won't be a big bad. Saw on some other board that Angelus didn't turn evil until E13, The Mayor didn't show himself to be such a bad guy until E13, Adam didn't show up until E13...

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grifter
Floating Rose


Posts: 38
Registered: Nov 2001 posted December 06, 2001 02:18               

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I just wanted to add that I have absolutely no clue who will be "Big BAd" this season, and I´m very happy with that.

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wiccie
Sassy Eggs


Posts: 579
Registered: Jan 2001 posted December 06, 2001 02:29               

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My Theory (copyright 2001 Wiccie, Inc.):

The Lame Gunmen create an uncontrolable super-cyborg sex-bot named Eve (bearing a striking resemblance to Britney Spears), who runs for Mayor and wins, but is accidentally sucked through lots of unfun dimensions by Willow's magic-addiction side effects until she (Eve) is soooo immensely peeved that when she finally returns to this dimension (naked, and with lots of lightning) she stalks, captures and tortures all of Buffy's friends, until Tara returns to cast a spell that inserts a soul into Eve while also trapping her (Eve, not Tara) in the toaster oven Tara got when she recruited Willow to Team Lesbo. Eve is trapped forever in said toaster oven until she achieves a true moment of toastiness (not too soft, not too burnt) which will never happen because now Eve lives as Unplugged-as-Nirvana-1994-on-MTV in Buffy's moldy basement.

Or, The Big Bad might be Anya's favorite game, The Game of Life.

[This message has been edited by wiccie (edited December 06, 2001).]

Thanks BTG!*G*

[This message has been edited by wiccie (edited December 06, 2001).]

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Wiccagrrl
Gay Now!


Posts: 1351
Registered: Sep 2000 posted December 06, 2001 02:36               

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Oh, Wiccie, of course! It's all so obvious, why didn't I think of it?

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Tara
Cool Monster Fighter


Posts: 235
Registered: Oct 2000 posted December 06, 2001 02:51            

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I tend to think it'll end up being the Lame Gunmen for some reason, or at least one of them. They wouldn't really introduce them without some bigger purpose. And from what I've heard so far they haven't really done anything *too* bad yet, so I think there's definitly more to come from them. Seems like a pretty lame big bad so far though (excuse the pun), so if they do turn out to be it I hope they do something better with them.

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GiftofAmber
unregistered posted December 06, 2001 02:53              

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I'm still trying to figure out who is the Big Bad. I thought it would be Willow, cause we keep seeing her slowly turn evil, and I would personally love that SO LONG AS she turns back in the end and lives. But, now that we are going the addiction angle instead of the abuse of power angle, I'm not sure.

With the supergeeks, I hope they aren't because as a bad, they just bore me.

Spike, I totally can not see Spike even being a Big Bad...but what about Drusilla? She hasn't been around for a long time, and gee, wouldn't that throw a wrench into B/S?

I still feel like there's a piece to the puzzle I'm missing. Joss referred to something called the Hero's Journey in one of his interviews. Does anyone know anything about the Hero's Journey or where I could find info on it?

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Beautiful Tara's Girl
Sassy Eggs


Posts: 600
Registered: Oct 2000 posted December 06, 2001 07:51               

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quote:

---

Originally posted by wiccie:
My Theory (copyright 2001 Wiccie, Inc.):

The Lame Gunmen create an uncontrolable super-cyborg sex-bot named Eve (bearing a striking resemblance to Britney Spears), who runs for Mayor and wins, but is accidentally sucked through lots of unfun dimensions by Willow's magic-addiction side effects until she (Eve) is soooo immensely peeved that when she finally returns to this dimension (naked, and with lots of lightning) she stalks, captures and tortures all of Buffy's friends, until Tara returns to cast a spell that inserts a soul into Eve while also trapping her (Eve, not Tara) in the toaster oven Tara got when she recruited Willow to Team Lesbo. Eve is trapped forever in said toaster oven until she achieves a true moment of toastiness (not too soft, not too burnt) which will never happen because now Eve lives as Unplugged-as-Nirvana-1993-on-MTV in Buffy's moldy basement.

---

1994.

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Lijdrec
Cool Monster Fighter


Posts: 127
Registered: May 2001 posted December 06, 2001 08:30               

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Yah! Life, the inner daemon and all that rot for all of the main characters. The only one that seems immune to the inner battle is Tara. Her struggle is for the heart and soul of another. Giles faced his daemon and found that he had to leave (God, I miss him).

If one of the Gang has the potential to be a 'Big Bad', I think that it might be sweet, innocent Dawn. Her inappropriate behaviors are directly tied to Buffy's emotional inadequacies and add in her new-found sexuality, her mystical origins (as The Key), and the fact that she is a Slayer 'clone', you then have numerous potent qualities for her 'Becoming'.

Saying so, isn't necessarily wanting it to be so, though.

------------
Lynn
------------
Life's not a song.

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Shewolf
Cool Monster Fighter


Posts: 157
Registered: May 2001 posted December 06, 2001 08:32               

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I'm leaning towards Amy, if only because it would be cool to have a character who's been there since season 1 turn evil...oh wait, so was Jonothan...but Amy was there before him, anb Jononthan just can't concince me as truly evil.

I always had a soft spot for the little guy. He is to BTVS what Morn was to DS9.

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Hemiola
Willowhand


Posts: 306
Registered: Mar 2001 posted December 06, 2001 09:23            

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To GiftofAmber: the Hero's Journey is a concept developed by Joseph Campbell. For more information, read his "Hero With A Thousand Faces".

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Dr.G
Strong like an Amazon


Posts: 3546
Registered: Jan 2001 posted December 06, 2001 09:37               

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I still do not see Willow as evil, never have never will, nor would I call any of her actions evil, that is a very big word. She has made mistakes, big ones, done bad things, so have *all* the scoobies. They are not evil. They are flawed, and how evil is that?

*sigh* maybe we should make a betting pool.

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Blixxt
Doll's Eye Crystal


Posts: 70
Registered: Oct 2001 posted December 06, 2001 11:00               

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To comment on Dr. G's post:

*If* Willow were to become the Big Bad (and that's a big if) I really don't think it would be from her becoming evil. It would be her ultimately using too much dark magic and thus losing control of her powers and herself. I completely agree that nothing Willow has done is evil, and that she would never intentionally hurt the scoobies. I can see, however, her spiraling out of control to the point where she's no longer in control of her actions. I don't think that's going to happen, though, as that would tend to remove some of the responsibility from any actions she took in that state. She would not be an 'evil' big bad, but a supernatural force out of control who then would be redeemed in the end. I still *really* don't think it's going to happen, however, my money's on something we haven't even seen yet.

[This message has been edited by Blixxt (edited December 06, 2001).]

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Warduke
Strong like an Amazon


Posts: 2149
Registered: Nov 2000 posted December 06, 2001 11:01               

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quote:

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Originally posted by GiftofAmber:
I'm still trying to figure out who is the Big Bad. I thought it would be Willow, cause we keep seeing her slowly turn evil

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Really?...because I don't see that.

Willow has done stupid things and made mistakes but I would not say she's turning evil, not even close.

And I would take NO pleasure in seeing Willow turn evil/Big Bad, none at all. It wouldn't be a fun storyline for me, it would be hell.

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Kalita
Sassy Eggs


Posts: 776
Registered: Jan 2001 posted December 06, 2001 11:13               

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I'm as puzzled as everyone else is, which is kind of a good thing. A nice dash of unpredictability is always good.

I do continue to wonder about the Lame Gunmen's place in things. Their arc seems to be slowly building which is one of the clearer signs of Big-Bad-ness. I am curious about the role of the Giant Diamond and "Phase II" - I think they may get to a point where they bite off more than they can chew, and things come to a head.

This could easily include Amy, Rack, or some other unknown. I'm sure Joss and Marti will make it suitably interesting, however it works out.

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lahabiel
Blessed Wannabe


Posts: 10
Registered: Nov 2001 posted December 06, 2001 11:54            

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As much as I like the idea of "life" and "growing up" being the Big Bad, I can't help but notice the symmetry of alignment between the good-niks and the no-good-niks on the show so far in Season 6.

We've Buffy vs. Spike, with their long and sordid angsty past, that's obvious.

I see Rack as an enemy to Willow, especially with all the story potential building. Rack will likely go all out to draw Willow back to her addiction. Both Rack and Willow are powerful magically -- but it might not be through magic that Willow bests him.

Amy is aligned against Tara. They are antitheses of each other -- the bad witch and the good witch (I would agree with the comment that Tara is a true Wiccan while Amy is merely an disciplined abuser of magical power). Dark side of the force (the easy and seductive path) versus the light (true Wicca), if you will.

I'm betting on Tara.

That leaves the non-super-powered people, and even here there is symmetry. The three geeks who, though ridiculous, do seem to possess the occasional formidable skill -- they match up with the three remaining Scoobies: Xander, Anya, and Dawn. Notice how these three, for the past few episodes, have been researching to try to figure out what the three geeks are up to (without exactly knowing yet who or what they're investigating).

Is anybody else getting a Superfriends vs. Legion of Doom kinda feeling about this season?

I rather like that idea, actually...

------------------
Check out my story
"banish.exe" on the site www.peccath.com/extraflamey for a W/T treat!
--Jeffe

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[This message has been edited by Warduke (edited December 06, 2001).]IP: LoggedRaneBig Pineapple


Posts: 1130
Registered: Sep 2000 posted December 06, 2001 01:09               

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i dont think thre'll be a big bad this year, just a bunch of little ones. amy, rack, the troika, spike, anything is up for me, i dont care as long as w/t get back together.

is Rack a subbubus? or is it incubus? one of those?

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posted December 06, 2001 01:09                i dont think thre'll be a big bad this year, just a bunch of little ones. amy, rack, the troika, spike, anything is up for me, i dont care as long as w/t get back together.

is Rack a subbubus? or is it incubus? one of those? IP: LoggeddustyBlessed Wannabe


Posts: 19
Registered: Oct 2001 posted December 06, 2001 01:38               

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At this point, I doubt Willow will be the big bad, although I think it's possible. I was, however, reading a site that talked about how the Buffy formula usually includes a little bad, betrayer, and a big bad. If they follow that formula it seems possible to me that she could be the betrayer, but I'm far from sure.

IP: Logged

posted December 06, 2001 01:38                At this point, I doubt Willow will be the big bad, although I think it's possible. I was, however, reading a site that talked about how the Buffy formula usually includes a little bad, betrayer, and a big bad. If they follow that formula it seems possible to me that she could be the betrayer, but I'm far from sure.IP: LoggedperspixxBlessed Wannabe


Posts: 13
Registered: Nov 2001 posted December 06, 2001 01:46               

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The growing up as a big bad thing is too much like an after-school special than prime-time TV.

I think it's too early to really say they're won't be a big bad. Saw on some other board that Angelus didn't turn evil until E13, The Mayor didn't show himself to be such a bad guy until E13, Adam didn't show up until E13...

IP: Logged

posted December 06, 2001 01:46                The growing up as a big bad thing is too much like an after-school special than prime-time TV.

I think it's too early to really say they're won't be a big bad. Saw on some other board that Angelus didn't turn evil until E13, The Mayor didn't show himself to be such a bad guy until E13, Adam didn't show up until E13...IP: LoggedgrifterFloating Rose


Posts: 38
Registered: Nov 2001 posted December 06, 2001 02:18               

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I just wanted to add that I have absolutely no clue who will be "Big BAd" this season, and I´m very happy with that.

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posted December 06, 2001 02:18                I just wanted to add that I have absolutely no clue who will be "Big BAd" this season, and I´m very happy with that. IP: LoggedwiccieSassy Eggs


Posts: 579
Registered: Jan 2001 posted December 06, 2001 02:29               

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My Theory (copyright 2001 Wiccie, Inc.):

The Lame Gunmen create an uncontrolable super-cyborg sex-bot named Eve (bearing a striking resemblance to Britney Spears), who runs for Mayor and wins, but is accidentally sucked through lots of unfun dimensions by Willow's magic-addiction side effects until she (Eve) is soooo immensely peeved that when she finally returns to this dimension (naked, and with lots of lightning) she stalks, captures and tortures all of Buffy's friends, until Tara returns to cast a spell that inserts a soul into Eve while also trapping her (Eve, not Tara) in the toaster oven Tara got when she recruited Willow to Team Lesbo. Eve is trapped forever in said toaster oven until she achieves a true moment of toastiness (not too soft, not too burnt) which will never happen because now Eve lives as Unplugged-as-Nirvana-1994-on-MTV in Buffy's moldy basement.

Or, The Big Bad might be Anya's favorite game, The Game of Life.

[This message has been edited by wiccie (edited December 06, 2001).]

Thanks BTG!*G*

[This message has been edited by wiccie (edited December 06, 2001).]

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posted December 06, 2001 02:29                My Theory (copyright 2001 Wiccie, Inc.):

The Lame Gunmen create an uncontrolable super-cyborg sex-bot named Eve (bearing a striking resemblance to Britney Spears), who runs for Mayor and wins, but is accidentally sucked through lots of unfun dimensions by Willow's magic-addiction side effects until she (Eve) is soooo immensely peeved that when she finally returns to this dimension (naked, and with lots of lightning) she stalks, captures and tortures all of Buffy's friends, until Tara returns to cast a spell that inserts a soul into Eve while also trapping her (Eve, not Tara) in the toaster oven Tara got when she recruited Willow to Team Lesbo. Eve is trapped forever in said toaster oven until she achieves a true moment of toastiness (not too soft, not too burnt) which will never happen because now Eve lives as Unplugged-as-Nirvana-1994-on-MTV in Buffy's moldy basement.

Or, The Big Bad might be Anya's favorite game, The Game of Life.

[This message has been edited by wiccie (edited December 06, 2001).]

Thanks BTG!*G*

[This message has been edited by wiccie (edited December 06, 2001).]IP: LoggedWiccagrrlGay Now!


Posts: 1351
Registered: Sep 2000 posted December 06, 2001 02:36               

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Oh, Wiccie, of course! It's all so obvious, why didn't I think of it?

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posted December 06, 2001 02:36                Oh, Wiccie, of course! It's all so obvious, why didn't I think of it? IP: LoggedTaraCool Monster Fighter


Posts: 235
Registered: Oct 2000 posted December 06, 2001 02:51            

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I tend to think it'll end up being the Lame Gunmen for some reason, or at least one of them. They wouldn't really introduce them without some bigger purpose. And from what I've heard so far they haven't really done anything *too* bad yet, so I think there's definitly more to come from them. Seems like a pretty lame big bad so far though (excuse the pun), so if they do turn out to be it I hope they do something better with them.

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posted December 06, 2001 02:51             I tend to think it'll end up being the Lame Gunmen for some reason, or at least one of them. They wouldn't really introduce them without some bigger purpose. And from what I've heard so far they haven't really done anything *too* bad yet, so I think there's definitly more to come from them. Seems like a pretty lame big bad so far though (excuse the pun), so if they do turn out to be it I hope they do something better with them.IP: LoggedGiftofAmberunregistered posted December 06, 2001 02:53              

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I'm still trying to figure out who is the Big Bad. I thought it would be Willow, cause we keep seeing her slowly turn evil, and I would personally love that SO LONG AS she turns back in the end and lives. But, now that we are going the addiction angle instead of the abuse of power angle, I'm not sure.

With the supergeeks, I hope they aren't because as a bad, they just bore me.

Spike, I totally can not see Spike even being a Big Bad...but what about Drusilla? She hasn't been around for a long time, and gee, wouldn't that throw a wrench into B/S?

I still feel like there's a piece to the puzzle I'm missing. Joss referred to something called the Hero's Journey in one of his interviews. Does anyone know anything about the Hero's Journey or where I could find info on it?

IP: Logged

posted December 06, 2001 02:53               I'm still trying to figure out who is the Big Bad. I thought it would be Willow, cause we keep seeing her slowly turn evil, and I would personally love that SO LONG AS she turns back in the end and lives. But, now that we are going the addiction angle instead of the abuse of power angle, I'm not sure.

With the supergeeks, I hope they aren't because as a bad, they just bore me.

Spike, I totally can not see Spike even being a Big Bad...but what about Drusilla? She hasn't been around for a long time, and gee, wouldn't that throw a wrench into B/S?

I still feel like there's a piece to the puzzle I'm missing. Joss referred to something called the Hero's Journey in one of his interviews. Does anyone know anything about the Hero's Journey or where I could find info on it?IP: LoggedBeautiful Tara's GirlSassy Eggs


Posts: 600
Registered: Oct 2000 posted December 06, 2001 07:51               

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quote:

---

Originally posted by wiccie:
My Theory (copyright 2001 Wiccie, Inc.):

The Lame Gunmen create an uncontrolable super-cyborg sex-bot named Eve (bearing a striking resemblance to Britney Spears), who runs for Mayor and wins, but is accidentally sucked through lots of unfun dimensions by Willow's magic-addiction side effects until she (Eve) is soooo immensely peeved that when she finally returns to this dimension (naked, and with lots of lightning) she stalks, captures and tortures all of Buffy's friends, until Tara returns to cast a spell that inserts a soul into Eve while also trapping her (Eve, not Tara) in the toaster oven Tara got when she recruited Willow to Team Lesbo. Eve is trapped forever in said toaster oven until she achieves a true moment of toastiness (not too soft, not too burnt) which will never happen because now Eve lives as Unplugged-as-Nirvana-1993-on-MTV in Buffy's moldy basement.

---

1994.

IP: Logged

posted December 06, 2001 07:51               

quote:

---

Originally posted by wiccie:
My Theory (copyright 2001 Wiccie, Inc.):

The Lame Gunmen create an uncontrolable super-cyborg sex-bot named Eve (bearing a striking resemblance to Britney Spears), who runs for Mayor and wins, but is accidentally sucked through lots of unfun dimensions by Willow's magic-addiction side effects until she (Eve) is soooo immensely peeved that when she finally returns to this dimension (naked, and with lots of lightning) she stalks, captures and tortures all of Buffy's friends, until Tara returns to cast a spell that inserts a soul into Eve while also trapping her (Eve, not Tara) in the toaster oven Tara got when she recruited Willow to Team Lesbo. Eve is trapped forever in said toaster oven until she achieves a true moment of toastiness (not too soft, not too burnt) which will never happen because now Eve lives as Unplugged-as-Nirvana-1993-on-MTV in Buffy's moldy basement.

---

1994.

quote:IP: LoggedLijdrecCool Monster Fighter


Posts: 127
Registered: May 2001 posted December 06, 2001 08:30               

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Yah! Life, the inner daemon and all that rot for all of the main characters. The only one that seems immune to the inner battle is Tara. Her struggle is for the heart and soul of another. Giles faced his daemon and found that he had to leave (God, I miss him).

If one of the Gang has the potential to be a 'Big Bad', I think that it might be sweet, innocent Dawn. Her inappropriate behaviors are directly tied to Buffy's emotional inadequacies and add in her new-found sexuality, her mystical origins (as The Key), and the fact that she is a Slayer 'clone', you then have numerous potent qualities for her 'Becoming'.

Saying so, isn't necessarily wanting it to be so, though.

------------
Lynn
------------
Life's not a song.

IP: Logged

posted December 06, 2001 08:30                Yah! Life, the inner daemon and all that rot for all of the main characters. The only one that seems immune to the inner battle is Tara. Her struggle is for the heart and soul of another. Giles faced his daemon and found that he had to leave (God, I miss him).

If one of the Gang has the potential to be a 'Big Bad', I think that it might be sweet, innocent Dawn. Her inappropriate behaviors are directly tied to Buffy's emotional inadequacies and add in her new-found sexuality, her mystical origins (as The Key), and the fact that she is a Slayer 'clone', you then have numerous potent qualities for her 'Becoming'.

Saying so, isn't necessarily wanting it to be so, though.

------------
Lynn
------------
Life's not a song.IP: LoggedShewolfCool Monster Fighter


Posts: 157
Registered: May 2001 posted December 06, 2001 08:32               

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I'm leaning towards Amy, if only because it would be cool to have a character who's been there since season 1 turn evil...oh wait, so was Jonothan...but Amy was there before him, anb Jononthan just can't concince me as truly evil.

I always had a soft spot for the little guy. He is to BTVS what Morn was to DS9.

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posted December 06, 2001 08:32                I'm leaning towards Amy, if only because it would be cool to have a character who's been there since season 1 turn evil...oh wait, so was Jonothan...but Amy was there before him, anb Jononthan just can't concince me as truly evil.

I always had a soft spot for the little guy. He is to BTVS what Morn was to DS9.IP: LoggedHemiolaWillowhand


Posts: 306
Registered: Mar 2001 posted December 06, 2001 09:23            

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To GiftofAmber: the Hero's Journey is a concept developed by Joseph Campbell. For more information, read his "Hero With A Thousand Faces".

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posted December 06, 2001 09:23             To GiftofAmber: the Hero's Journey is a concept developed by Joseph Campbell. For more information, read his "Hero With A Thousand Faces".IP: LoggedDr.GStrong like an Amazon


Posts: 3546
Registered: Jan 2001 posted December 06, 2001 09:37               

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I still do not see Willow as evil, never have never will, nor would I call any of her actions evil, that is a very big word. She has made mistakes, big ones, done bad things, so have *all* the scoobies. They are not evil. They are flawed, and how evil is that?

*sigh* maybe we should make a betting pool.

IP: Logged

posted December 06, 2001 09:37                I still do not see Willow as evil, never have never will, nor would I call any of her actions evil, that is a very big word. She has made mistakes, big ones, done bad things, so have *all* the scoobies. They are not evil. They are flawed, and how evil is that?

*sigh* maybe we should make a betting pool. IP: LoggedBlixxtDoll's Eye Crystal


Posts: 70
Registered: Oct 2001 posted December 06, 2001 11:00               

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To comment on Dr. G's post:

*If* Willow were to become the Big Bad (and that's a big if) I really don't think it would be from her becoming evil. It would be her ultimately using too much dark magic and thus losing control of her powers and herself. I completely agree that nothing Willow has done is evil, and that she would never intentionally hurt the scoobies. I can see, however, her spiraling out of control to the point where she's no longer in control of her actions. I don't think that's going to happen, though, as that would tend to remove some of the responsibility from any actions she took in that state. She would not be an 'evil' big bad, but a supernatural force out of control who then would be redeemed in the end. I still *really* don't think it's going to happen, however, my money's on something we haven't even seen yet.

[This message has been edited by Blixxt (edited December 06, 2001).]

IP: Logged

posted December 06, 2001 11:00                To comment on Dr. G's post:

*If* Willow were to become the Big Bad (and that's a big if) I really don't think it would be from her becoming evil. It would be her ultimately using too much dark magic and thus losing control of her powers and herself. I completely agree that nothing Willow has done is evil, and that she would never intentionally hurt the scoobies. I can see, however, her spiraling out of control to the point where she's no longer in control of her actions. I don't think that's going to happen, though, as that would tend to remove some of the responsibility from any actions she took in that state. She would not be an 'evil' big bad, but a supernatural force out of control who then would be redeemed in the end. I still *really* don't think it's going to happen, however, my money's on something we haven't even seen yet.

[This message has been edited by Blixxt (edited December 06, 2001).]IP: LoggedWardukeStrong like an Amazon


Posts: 2149
Registered: Nov 2000 posted December 06, 2001 11:01               

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quote:

---

Originally posted by GiftofAmber:
I'm still trying to figure out who is the Big Bad. I thought it would be Willow, cause we keep seeing her slowly turn evil

---

Really?...because I don't see that.

Willow has done stupid things and made mistakes but I would not say she's turning evil, not even close.

And I would take NO pleasure in seeing Willow turn evil/Big Bad, none at all. It wouldn't be a fun storyline for me, it would be hell.

IP: Logged

posted December 06, 2001 11:01               

quote:

---

Originally posted by GiftofAmber:
I'm still trying to figure out who is the Big Bad. I thought it would be Willow, cause we keep seeing her slowly turn evil

---

Really?...because I don't see that.

Willow has done stupid things and made mistakes but I would not say she's turning evil, not even close.

And I would take NO pleasure in seeing Willow turn evil/Big Bad, none at all. It wouldn't be a fun storyline for me, it would be hell.quote:IP: LoggedKalitaSassy Eggs


Posts: 776
Registered: Jan 2001 posted December 06, 2001 11:13               

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I'm as puzzled as everyone else is, which is kind of a good thing. A nice dash of unpredictability is always good.

I do continue to wonder about the Lame Gunmen's place in things. Their arc seems to be slowly building which is one of the clearer signs of Big-Bad-ness. I am curious about the role of the Giant Diamond and "Phase II" - I think they may get to a point where they bite off more than they can chew, and things come to a head.

This could easily include Amy, Rack, or some other unknown. I'm sure Joss and Marti will make it suitably interesting, however it works out.

IP: Logged

posted December 06, 2001 11:13                I'm as puzzled as everyone else is, which is kind of a good thing. A nice dash of unpredictability is always good.

I do continue to wonder about the Lame Gunmen's place in things. Their arc seems to be slowly building which is one of the clearer signs of Big-Bad-ness. I am curious about the role of the Giant Diamond and "Phase II" - I think they may get to a point where they bite off more than they can chew, and things come to a head.

This could easily include Amy, Rack, or some other unknown. I'm sure Joss and Marti will make it suitably interesting, however it works out.IP: LoggedlahabielBlessed Wannabe


Posts: 10
Registered: Nov 2001 posted December 06, 2001 11:54            

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As much as I like the idea of "life" and "growing up" being the Big Bad, I can't help but notice the symmetry of alignment between the good-niks and the no-good-niks on the show so far in Season 6.

We've Buffy vs. Spike, with their long and sordid angsty past, that's obvious.

I see Rack as an enemy to Willow, especially with all the story potential building. Rack will likely go all out to draw Willow back to her addiction. Both Rack and Willow are powerful magically -- but it might not be through magic that Willow bests him.

Amy is aligned against Tara. They are antitheses of each other -- the bad witch and the good witch (I would agree with the comment that Tara is a true Wiccan while Amy is merely an disciplined abuser of magical power). Dark side of the force (the easy and seductive path) versus the light (true Wicca), if you will.

I'm betting on Tara.

That leaves the non-super-powered people, and even here there is symmetry. The three geeks who, though ridiculous, do seem to possess the occasional formidable skill -- they match up with the three remaining Scoobies: Xander, Anya, and Dawn. Notice how these three, for the past few episodes, have been researching to try to figure out what the three geeks are up to (without exactly knowing yet who or what they're investigating).

Is anybody else getting a Superfriends vs. Legion of Doom kinda feeling about this season?

I rather like that idea, actually...

------------------
Check out my story
"banish.exe" on the site www.peccath.com/extraflamey for a W/T treat!
--Jeffe

IP: Logged

posted December 06, 2001 11:54             As much as I like the idea of "life" and "growing up" being the Big Bad, I can't help but notice the symmetry of alignment between the good-niks and the no-good-niks on the show so far in Season 6.

We've Buffy vs. Spike, with their long and sordid angsty past, that's obvious.

I see Rack as an enemy to Willow, especially with all the story potential building. Rack will likely go all out to draw Willow back to her addiction. Both Rack and Willow are powerful magically -- but it might not be through magic that Willow bests him.

Amy is aligned against Tara. They are antitheses of each other -- the bad witch and the good witch (I would agree with the comment that Tara is a true Wiccan while Amy is merely an disciplined abuser of magical power). Dark side of the force (the easy and seductive path) versus the light (true Wicca), if you will.

I'm betting on Tara.

That leaves the non-super-powered people, and even here there is symmetry. The three geeks who, though ridiculous, do seem to possess the occasional formidable skill -- they match up with the three remaining Scoobies: Xander, Anya, and Dawn. Notice how these three, for the past few episodes, have been researching to try to figure out what the three geeks are up to (without exactly knowing yet who or what they're investigating).

Is anybody else getting a Superfriends vs. Legion of Doom kinda feeling about this season?

I rather like that idea, actually...

------------------
Check out my story
"banish.exe" on the site www.peccath.com/extraflamey for a W/T treat!
--Jeffe

[Rane]

i dont think thre'll be a big bad this year, just a bunch of little ones. amy, rack, the troika, spike, anything is up for me, i dont care as long as w/t get back together.

is Rack a subbubus? or is it incubus? one of those?

[dusty]

At this point, I doubt Willow will be the big bad, although I think it's possible. I was, however, reading a site that talked about how the Buffy formula usually includes a little bad, betrayer, and a big bad. If they follow that formula it seems possible to me that she could be the betrayer, but I'm far from sure.

[perspixx]

The growing up as a big bad thing is too much like an after-school special than prime-time TV.

I think it's too early to really say they're won't be a big bad. Saw on some other board that Angelus didn't turn evil until E13, The Mayor didn't show himself to be such a bad guy until E13, Adam didn't show up until E13...

[grifter]

I just wanted to add that I have absolutely no clue who will be "Big BAd" this season, and I´m very happy with that.

[wiccie]

My Theory (copyright 2001 Wiccie, Inc.):

The Lame Gunmen create an uncontrolable super-cyborg sex-bot named Eve (bearing a striking resemblance to Britney Spears), who runs for Mayor and wins, but is accidentally sucked through lots of unfun dimensions by Willow's magic-addiction side effects until she (Eve) is soooo immensely peeved that when she finally returns to this dimension (naked, and with lots of lightning) she stalks, captures and tortures all of Buffy's friends, until Tara returns to cast a spell that inserts a soul into Eve while also trapping her (Eve, not Tara) in the toaster oven Tara got when she recruited Willow to Team Lesbo. Eve is trapped forever in said toaster oven until she achieves a true moment of toastiness (not too soft, not too burnt) which will never happen because now Eve lives as Unplugged-as-Nirvana-1994-on-MTV in Buffy's moldy basement.

Or, The Big Bad might be Anya's favorite game, The Game of Life.

[This message has been edited by wiccie (edited December 06, 2001).]

Thanks BTG!*G*

[This message has been edited by wiccie (edited December 06, 2001).]

[Wiccagrrl]

Oh, Wiccie, of course! It's all so obvious, why didn't I think of it?

[Tara]

I tend to think it'll end up being the Lame Gunmen for some reason, or at least one of them. They wouldn't really introduce them without some bigger purpose. And from what I've heard so far they haven't really done anything *too* bad yet, so I think there's definitly more to come from them. Seems like a pretty lame big bad so far though (excuse the pun), so if they do turn out to be it I hope they do something better with them.

[GiftofAmber]

I'm still trying to figure out who is the Big Bad. I thought it would be Willow, cause we keep seeing her slowly turn evil, and I would personally love that SO LONG AS she turns back in the end and lives. But, now that we are going the addiction angle instead of the abuse of power angle, I'm not sure.

With the supergeeks, I hope they aren't because as a bad, they just bore me.

Spike, I totally can not see Spike even being a Big Bad...but what about Drusilla? She hasn't been around for a long time, and gee, wouldn't that throw a wrench into B/S?

I still feel like there's a piece to the puzzle I'm missing. Joss referred to something called the Hero's Journey in one of his interviews. Does anyone know anything about the Hero's Journey or where I could find info on it?

[Beautiful Tara's Girl]

quote:

---

Originally posted by wiccie:
My Theory (copyright 2001 Wiccie, Inc.):

The Lame Gunmen create an uncontrolable super-cyborg sex-bot named Eve (bearing a striking resemblance to Britney Spears), who runs for Mayor and wins, but is accidentally sucked through lots of unfun dimensions by Willow's magic-addiction side effects until she (Eve) is soooo immensely peeved that when she finally returns to this dimension (naked, and with lots of lightning) she stalks, captures and tortures all of Buffy's friends, until Tara returns to cast a spell that inserts a soul into Eve while also trapping her (Eve, not Tara) in the toaster oven Tara got when she recruited Willow to Team Lesbo. Eve is trapped forever in said toaster oven until she achieves a true moment of toastiness (not too soft, not too burnt) which will never happen because now Eve lives as Unplugged-as-Nirvana-1993-on-MTV in Buffy's moldy basement.

---

1994.

quote:

[Lijdrec]

Yah! Life, the inner daemon and all that rot for all of the main characters. The only one that seems immune to the inner battle is Tara. Her struggle is for the heart and soul of another. Giles faced his daemon and found that he had to leave (God, I miss him).

If one of the Gang has the potential to be a 'Big Bad', I think that it might be sweet, innocent Dawn. Her inappropriate behaviors are directly tied to Buffy's emotional inadequacies and add in her new-found sexuality, her mystical origins (as The Key), and the fact that she is a Slayer 'clone', you then have numerous potent qualities for her 'Becoming'.

Saying so, isn't necessarily wanting it to be so, though.

------------
Lynn
------------
Life's not a song.

[Shewolf]

I'm leaning towards Amy, if only because it would be cool to have a character who's been there since season 1 turn evil...oh wait, so was Jonothan...but Amy was there before him, anb Jononthan just can't concince me as truly evil.

I always had a soft spot for the little guy. He is to BTVS what Morn was to DS9.

[Hemiola]

To GiftofAmber: the Hero's Journey is a concept developed by Joseph Campbell. For more information, read his "Hero With A Thousand Faces".

[Dr.G]

I still do not see Willow as evil, never have never will, nor would I call any of her actions evil, that is a very big word. She has made mistakes, big ones, done bad things, so have *all* the scoobies. They are not evil. They are flawed, and how evil is that?

*sigh* maybe we should make a betting pool.

[Blixxt]

To comment on Dr. G's post:

*If* Willow were to become the Big Bad (and that's a big if) I really don't think it would be from her becoming evil. It would be her ultimately using too much dark magic and thus losing control of her powers and herself. I completely agree that nothing Willow has done is evil, and that she would never intentionally hurt the scoobies. I can see, however, her spiraling out of control to the point where she's no longer in control of her actions. I don't think that's going to happen, though, as that would tend to remove some of the responsibility from any actions she took in that state. She would not be an 'evil' big bad, but a supernatural force out of control who then would be redeemed in the end. I still *really* don't think it's going to happen, however, my money's on something we haven't even seen yet.

[This message has been edited by Blixxt (edited December 06, 2001).]

[Warduke]

quote:

---

Originally posted by GiftofAmber:
I'm still trying to figure out who is the Big Bad. I thought it would be Willow, cause we keep seeing her slowly turn evil

---

Really?...because I don't see that.

Willow has done stupid things and made mistakes but I would not say she's turning evil, not even close.

And I would take NO pleasure in seeing Willow turn evil/Big Bad, none at all. It wouldn't be a fun storyline for me, it would be hell.quote:

[Kalita]

I'm as puzzled as everyone else is, which is kind of a good thing. A nice dash of unpredictability is always good.

I do continue to wonder about the Lame Gunmen's place in things. Their arc seems to be slowly building which is one of the clearer signs of Big-Bad-ness. I am curious about the role of the Giant Diamond and "Phase II" - I think they may get to a point where they bite off more than they can chew, and things come to a head.

This could easily include Amy, Rack, or some other unknown. I'm sure Joss and Marti will make it suitably interesting, however it works out.

[lahabiel]

As much as I like the idea of "life" and "growing up" being the Big Bad, I can't help but notice the symmetry of alignment between the good-niks and the no-good-niks on the show so far in Season 6.

We've Buffy vs. Spike, with their long and sordid angsty past, that's obvious.

I see Rack as an enemy to Willow, especially with all the story potential building. Rack will likely go all out to draw Willow back to her addiction. Both Rack and Willow are powerful magically -- but it might not be through magic that Willow bests him.

Amy is aligned against Tara. They are antitheses of each other -- the bad witch and the good witch (I would agree with the comment that Tara is a true Wiccan while Amy is merely an disciplined abuser of magical power). Dark side of the force (the easy and seductive path) versus the light (true Wicca), if you will.

I'm betting on Tara.

That leaves the non-super-powered people, and even here there is symmetry. The three geeks who, though ridiculous, do seem to possess the occasional formidable skill -- they match up with the three remaining Scoobies: Xander, Anya, and Dawn. Notice how these three, for the past few episodes, have been researching to try to figure out what the three geeks are up to (without exactly knowing yet who or what they're investigating).

Is anybody else getting a Superfriends vs. Legion of Doom kinda feeling about this season?

I rather like that idea, actually...

------------------
Check out my story
"banish.exe" on the site www.peccath.com/extraflamey for a W/T treat!
--Jeffe

[sparrow]

I have to go along with the theory that life, growing up, dealing with your own darkness is the "big bad" this season. O f course we have the Lame Gunmen but I think that they are just the subplot, the lesser demons this year. As Buffy and the rest of the crew deal with all that life has to offer, in a new adult light, we see them struggle, fumble, screw up and hopefully learn from their trials these are the demons, their inner demons. What can be more terrifiying then having to face what Buffy has to face, what Willow has done and who she has betrayed, what Tara is had to do because of her loving someone, Dawn's teenage folies on the Hellmouth, what Anya and Xander face. Each an every character is battling their own specific demons yet they are connected to the "big bad", life and it's reality, it's scary, heart wrenching, yank you soul out reality, the hard decision and their effects.

Assume crash positions

[Epicurus]

I like the idea of the "growing up" theme as the Big Bad (in sorts). This would mean that Willow will not be the BB and end up doing something that is unredeemable; I want to watch BTVS and not hate Willow. Also, it would make sense having the Scoobies fighting the inner child though out the season, it needs to happen some time.

[meo_willowtarafan]

Willow won't go 'Evil', but this is the year of the Fellowship, and I remember with great clarity the scene in the Mirror of Galadriel (though I can't quote it exactly) where Frodo offers the ring to the wise Queen of Lothlorien. This tests Galadriel as she'd always wondered about the ring and setting the world 'right' if she had the power. "You won't have a Dark Lord, but a Queen more beautiful and terrible as the morning and the night. All will lover her and despair."

Okay, that's what I see. Willow, ostracized from the Scoobies decides that she has the power and the Right to reorder Sunnydale to make it safe for humans and dangerous for Vamps/Demons. But her Power and Control corrupts her as she controls/possesses others. Of course, Her Love, the well grounded Tara, plus the remaining Scoobies will have to be crucial in redeeming her and allowing her to put aside the power voluntarily and restoring a more natural order.

(After wrecked, I'm guessing Joss won't go this way, but maybe its a Red Herring and Willow will continue the descent after falling off the wagon?)

[Zahir]

My guess?

The cumulative mistakes by the Scoobies give the Lame Gunmen & others (maybe including Rack & Amy) a chance to wreck some real havok.

So--they put their mistakes more or less behind them to fix their own mess. Xander and Anya get married. Willow and Tara are together again. Spike and Buffy get each other out of their respective systems.

------------------
"O let my name be in the Book of Love.
If it be there, I care not of
That other book Above...
Strike it out! Or write it in anew.
But let it be in the Book of Love!"
--Omar Kyam

[nika]

I'm thinking 3 main things : 1. The really big B is real life.

2. Little b's that cause a few pains in the ass would be the lame whatevers

3.Jc has done a good job portraying a slimy majiks dealer, thus making many hate him, in joss land this means more camera time, that could mean that by the end of the season he could appear causing much angst and trouble specially for our two favorite gals.