General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 10

[Popje]

Bzengo my mind is fuzzy but one of the first lesbian kisses on cable in the USA was on LA Law. Amanda Donahue and some lady. Donahue's character wasn't evil, but agressive might fit the bill. I don't recall the plot line.

[Grace]

quote:

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Originally posted by sassyeggs:
It occured to me tonight while watching Tabula Rasa that a reset spell could still allow them to remember what happened. After the crystal is smashed in Tabula Rasa, they know that their memories were gone. So, a reset spell could still give them the growth and consequences necessary

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I was also thinking about this while watching Tabula Rasa tonight. The meaning of "tabula rasa" is blank slate. It's not usually used in reference to forgetting as much as it is, clearing things completely, or starting over. Also, it seems that this ep is where all the pain really starts. . .look at the end during the Michelle Branch song/montage. . .giles leaves, buffy gives into her feelings for spike because she misses giles, Tara leaves Willow (broke my heart all over again). Dawn is upset because Tara is leaving (Dawn- "people always leave me"). So I wonder if this all means something. Or maybe I'm just over-analyzing things like so many other people out there. If only we weren't given 5 whole weeks to think about it. I bet somewhere Joss Whedon is sitting and laughing his head off. However, I still trust him- he's never let us down when it comes to season end- it always works out. I agree with what someone said about last years "The Weight of the World." Things looked pretty dire then too. I just keep holding on to that phrase, W to T: "I will ALWAYS find you."

quote:

[tommo]

Reading an old copy of SFX, something Joss said stuck in my head:

"When you bring somebody back to life when they've been dead, you have a lot of disbelief on your hands. People have a problem with that. You have to, as always, make the characters feel the way the audience does. You have to make it difficult, you have to earn it. You have to just get in there and make it very visceral and make everybody go through the experience of 'But that person was dead, how do I deal with this?', so that the audience can really relate to what's happening the way the characters are. And I believe that we do, indeed, earn it."

So Joss. Earn yourself some brownie points and get out of this one. This was actually about Buffy's death, but I thought it was an interesting take on bringing someone back.

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You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...

[The Partyman]

quote:

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Originally posted by tommo:

"....And I believe that we do, indeed, earn it."

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I figured this was also a clever play on words:

Earn it / Urn it

Reference to the Urn of Osisris.

quote:

[hopico]

"It occured to me tonight while watching Tabula Rasa that a reset spell could still allow them to remember what happened. After the crystal is smashed in Tabula Rasa, they know that their memories were gone. So, a reset spell could still give them the growth and consequences necessary. "

Hi, I am a former lurker and now I'm posting. I just wanted to add that when Halfrek granted Dawn's wish, they all remembered being stuck in the house. I don't think granting a vengence wish requires memory loss. I hope that makes sense.

This is a great board and i appreciate it, it gives me hope that Willow and Tara will make it to season 7.

[roamin']

had to delurk and register to thank Kamil for citing Yeat's poem - The Second Coming. Something about the dialog we'd seen from ep 18 and the definition of entropy had been nagging at me as oddliy familiar and once I read the first line of the poem I realized The Second Coming was what I'd been trying to remember. Good call Kamil.
I'm also getting the feeling that this season may end up like the last act of Hamlet.

[The Big I-T]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ari:
Part of this premise (or the one I'm playing with, anyway) is that the things they are doing go against the lessons they've already been learning this season....What's the purpose of it? I think in part it's just Joss' love for tragedy and his taking the chance of having the safety net of a reset to take everyone as far and deep and dark as he can dream up in that twisted little mind of his. And in the process, he's showing us just how far down these people have fallen this season. How close they all are to falling down so far that they couldn't ever get back up again.

And I'm hoping that the purpose of that would then be to show them growing next season. If we as the audience know just how close each of them was to being completely undone, then growing and learning and moving forward becomes that much more meaningful. Because if you've shown the lowest of the lows, then hopefully there would be nowhere to go but upward.

Or that's the theory I'm clinging desperately to at the moment.

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I'm right here with you on this, Ari. The thing that's important to realize is that growing up is not a finish line you can cross and be done with. It's something that -- hopefully, anyway -- everyone continues to do every day for the balance of their lives. And undoubtedly, there will be some faltering along the way. That's just being human. I think it's pretty clear though that Willow especially, and Buffy more recently, have been making great strides in addressing their shortcomings and/or weaknesses. Even Anya, who tells us with great conviction that she "finally gets love" has come a ways. As for Xander, well, much remains to be seen there....

The extreme circumstances that these individuals are about to be faced with -- just as they are all getting their legs under them, so to speak -- are almost not even "fair" to throw at them right now. Much less judge them for all eternity by. Granted, life's not fair. But life does allow you to learn from your experiences and often gives you other chances down the line to make things right. Surely, Joss will be affording the Scoobs other chances as well...just not before he pushes them all right to their breaking points...But then that's just Joss for you. Mostly fair, but always evil...

quote:

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Originally posted by tommo:
So Joss. Earn yourself some brownie points and get out of this one. This was actually about Buffy's death, but I thought it was an interesting take on bringing someone back.

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Good gawd...how much more visceral can even the thought of Tara dying get?! My entire insides are an angry twisted knot of venom-spewing serpents for crying out loud...

Make it better, Joss. Please...

--jr

[This message has been edited by The Big I-T (edited March 20, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by The Big I-T (edited March 20, 2002).]quote:quote:

[Ari]

quote:

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Originally posted by The Big I-T:
I'm right here with you on this, Ari. The thing that's important to realize is that growing up is not a finish line you can cross and be done with. It's something that-- hopefully, anyway -- everyone continues to do every day for the balance of their lives. And undoubtedly, there will be some faltering along the way. That's just being human.

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Yeah, exactly. And that's also the reason why I would buy this whole wishverse reality as a conclusion of the season. Because to end the journey of this season properly, the point should be that they didn't have any kind of big, apocalyptic battle to confront. Or not in the reality that they will remember. Growing up isn't about the big battles so much as the little, tedious, tiring ones.

But there would be one really big lesson left to be learned this season, in the wishverse, and it would be Anya's. Which lets them have the huge battles, death and destruction, and then takes it all away again.

Ari
quote:

[mariacomet]

Plots that haven't been tied up but that beg to be

1. Buffy and Dawn

They have been going round and round with this all season. Dawn feel unwanted. Buffy insists that she wants Dawn around. Buffy then gives Dawn another reason to feel unwanted. It's a cycle. in 18 Buffy tries and makes Dawn feel wanted again. By 20, I think she once again is trying to pawn her off on Spike. Yet it is for Dawn's protection, but at this point you have to question if Dawn will see it that way.

So there has yet to be a critical moment here that solves this problem one way or the other.

2. The resurrection question.

Tara is dead. Willow tries to resurrect her but can't use the same spell that was used on Buffy because Tara didn't die a magical death.

Okay, BUT even Dawn was able to bring Joyce back. At least we are led to believe she could have. We are also led to believe that Joyce likely would have come back 'wrong.'

The implication seems to be that there are many ways to try and bring someone back, but all involve very very powerful magic. Willow is the 'fixer' Remember the buffy bot? And she has already brought one person back from the dead. Plus she is not exactly being logicial. So ME faces a problem if they don't bring Tara.

In my opinion, Willow - whether she be good or evil - would never stop looking for a way to bring her love back. After all she has seen (and done), what could possibly convince her that it cannot be done?

(sarcasm font) I, Willow Rosenberg have challenged a god twice and lived to tell the tale. I have cast aside death and brought my best friend life. But you say I can't bring back the love of my life, the keeper of my soul? Well.Shoot. Oh, okay...Let's go watch 'Friends' (/sarcasm font)

Willow. would. never. stop.

3. Johnathan.

They have put Johnathan in a situation where he must make a choice. He knows he is in a situation that is out of hand. Johnathan has not really made a choice here on what side he is on. Rather, he has let himself get swept away in events. Yes, he did chose to steal, etc - and he should shoulder that responisbility, but all things considered he didn't know what he was getting into. NOW, he does. Eventually, he will be pushed to a moment of true decision. Either he will take no action and that will be his decision or he will side with one group or the other.

4. Xander.

The theme of the season is...yank every drop of pain and angst out of the t.v. viewing audience that....um...no...sorry. Ahem. I meant it's "Oh grow up."

Here's the basic setup that Buffy and Willow faced.

A. You discover that due to circumstances beyond your control, you have a problem.

B. You react to the problem.

C. You stop reacting to the problem and you face the problem.

d. You make a decision to that acts as catalyst or sets forth an ongoing process to (hopefully) 'solve' (or at least manage) the problem.

That is the 'adult thing' to do.

So in Xander's case.

a. Xander has issues with Anya that are in part due to his parents/upbringing. Xander realizes he has issues. He realizes that he might later mistreat Anya and likely is so now.

B. Xander leaves his wedding to clear his head.

C. Xander returns and then promptly runs away from the issues without truly taking on the heart of any of them. He also leaves Anya alone to deliver the news to the guests.

d. Xander comes back from a self imposed exile, still without truly dealing with the issue and tries to find Anya...thinking they can still work something out, despite the fact that he has leveled her emotionally.

Conclusion - Xander still hasn't grow up. And if the theme is that Everyone needs to grow up...then we have yet to reach the pinnacle moment for Xander.

5. The Super Willow versus Regular Willow theme.

Has Willow really learned yet that she is loveable and worthy of being loved as just plain Willow? Tara coming back to her is something of a first step on that journey.

What about the rest of that journey?

I'm sitting here thinking of possible scenarios. My question is if there's a wish made somewhere, which makes sense - why else have two vengance demons around - who made the wish?

I think the mostly likely candidate is Warren. But then what would Warren wish for? I am not sure even Anyanka would do something that would truly hurt Buffy and the others, despite how angry she is at Xander.

So what if the deal is this...what if Warren simply wishes that Buffy not to be able to hurt him. He also promises that when he is done, he will make a wish against Xander for Anya. So he goes to hunt down Buffy.

Choas, death and Big Bad Willows ensue.

What if Anya can't reset it all? Not really. what if all she can do is take the place of an innocent as a mortal. Therefore bringing Tara forward in her place, and taking Tara's place - dying from Warren's bullets. but the timeline distortion does not change all of the events that have occured. it merely saves Tara's life. it is literally an exchange with none of the timeline being changed.

No, I don't think Anya would do this for Tara. I think she might do it to correct a wrong series of events that her lust for vengnance started. And I think she would do it for Xander - a redeeming act.

But then we have Xander carrying the burden that IF he had gone through with the wedding, none of the other events would have happened.

We have Willow shaked and o.d.ing on black magic. We have Spike returning without a chip in his head.

[Bev]

quote:

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Originally posted by Morphine:

First, a couple of definitions to help you along the way...

Entropy : The tendency for all matter to lose its integrity and reach a chaotic state (Read : No pattern in molecules, no "order", means boom)

Chaos : The absence of order among particules of matter, thus going boom eventually.

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So what this could mean, then, if things don't change there could be "boom"?

quote:

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spoiler-related entropy. Most people figured the definition of the name would be the key. It might be wrong. Entropy is an abstract concept, and the title of Episode 18 refers not to that concept, but to the questions it raised, raises and will raise in the scientific community.

Lots of philosophic questions have been asked and stayed unanswered. Where does Life begin, where does it end? How was the Universe "created" and how? If you dig a little deeper, those questions come to : In a universe submitted to entropy where things tend to go towards a chaotic stage, how does order appear? How can physics (a science based on The Order Of All Things) be applied to everything, how is it there is gravity when things should, according to entropy factors, float and even more disturbing, how can matter stay stable (i.e. the chair you're sitting on isn't shifting in shape, isn't exploding nor imploding) if entropy occurs in our universe?

A possible answer to that is : Chaos is never reached because paradoxal entropies are pushing the said elements in every direction possible. For every force A, there is a "Negative A" (its contrary) pushing it in the opposite direction, thus making it stable. When A (or Negative A) is changed, you've got movement (exemple : the Earth stays in its course because there is gravity pulling it towards the Sun and a centrifugic force pushing it out of orbit). Now if the Sun was to lose its intensity (thus its gravity), the Earth would probably change its course and run away free in the Universe. Movement. And, for us terrestrials, bad news.

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Ok, so this is the law that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

quote:

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applying that to Buffy

Things right now are going towards a chaotic stage never reached before in the Buffyverse (Force A). But since chaos is never reached, a strong Force Negative A must intervene to assure balance. Without balance, boom. Without entropy, there would be no stability. Without hurt and pain, there would be no joy, no peace. What's that Force Negative A that'll make things right again? Episode 21 and 22 perhaps hold the answer. But in this case, Episode 18 is the start of the Force A getting stronger (Entropy, more and more chaotic). Something's gotta be done to counter that. I could speculate as to what that'll be, but hey... that's your job

So there. Hope I made it a tad clearer.

Sorry if this was long...

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Thanks for the help. Too sick to make any speculations at this point...

[This message has been edited by Bev (edited March 20, 2002).]quote:quote:quote:

[shellybean]

This doesn't really go along with what everyone else is talking about but I just watched Tabula Rasa again and that episode is so good and so painful. I've seen that ep so many times and I don't think I can ever get tired of it. But it still always kills me and makes me tear up when Tara leaves. It was like that was the beginning of the end.
And does anyone else feel all disconnected with the show after finding out that Tara's going to die? Because that's how I feel. I feel like the episodes I watch aren't real or something and its the fanfic I read that is. Its probably just my mind trying to cope or something. And what else really sucks is that I feel like I can't watch Buffy anymore! It REALLY sucks because Buffy used to be the thing I'd watch whenever I felt depressed or something that'd make me feel better. But now every time I do watch it, it depresses me MORE because I keep thinking about what's going to happen to Tara. And then I get this sinking feeling like its really the end for Tara and it really sucks. So all I can do now to get myself out of my slump is watch the Once and Again episode of the Gay/Strait Alliance over and over again. Then I get depressed again thinking that that show might get cancelled! AHHH!!! Its an endless cycle! HELP!

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Tara: "I understand. You have to be with the person you l-love."
Willow: "I am." – "New Moon Rising"

"But with Tara, I just know she likes Willow, and she already has one of those" – "Family"

"Honey, in case you didn’t hear me the first six-thousand times, no more teleportation spells." – "Crush"

Willow: "I figured, life goes by so fast, if you don’t write stuff down it just gets…lost."
Tara: "Down to every last bagel"
Willow: "Down to every last everything I do with you" – "Forever"

[Guinyan]

quote:

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Originally posted by BBOvenGuy
Much as I like the idea of Xander wishing everyone back to life and then losing Anya as a result because she has to remain a vengeance demon, it doesn't give Buffy anything to do. She's the hero, and at some point in the finale she's got to snap out of this season-long funk she's been in and do something heroic.

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quote:

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Originally posted by BBOvenGuy
A few other people have commented that the balance is gone from this season of Buffy - there used to be a balance of joy and pain, but now there is only pain.

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I know we're not supposed to speculate too much but I don't know where to put this. Well I trust the mods to delete this if it's not welcome and I apologize in advance.
O.K, I've been toying with a crazy idea since the beginning of the season, actually. But it seemed a little too strange and I haven't seen it mentionned on any board so maybe it's just my little deranged imagination. Anyway, I read all the posts on these threads and this crazy idea is bugging me more and more. I'm gonna try to make it short but please bear with me, because I'd really like another opinion on this thing.
I agree with BBovenguy over the major lack of balance in this season. To me it seemed like one bad dream after another, especially for Buffy. It seemed all her fears are coming true (little fears and big fears).
She's coming back to life "in the same way as a vampire", like a dead thing herself. She can't manage to take care of "normal things" like her mom used to do (common fear that comes with growing up), she can't take care of her sister, she's having sex with Spike (vampire without a soul and someone she's supposed to hate )(sorry for the Spike's shippers, I like him too)and she going back to him again and again...the monsters she has to fight are either broughts by three nerds (the pathetics opponents) or by her friends and sister...she sees her friends crumble around her and she can't help them.
She lost her surrogate father (the last "adult" that could reassure her.
And she doesn't seem to find the will to live again.
For me it seemed like this season was a big giant nightmare for Buffy (for the others as well but everything revolves around her, it's her show).
Anyway, it started bothering me in Bargaining because:
1- I didn't think that Willow had that kind of power ( they said that she could be trapped in a hell dimension like Angel, and he was brought back by either The First Evil or the Powers That Be, both a little more powerful than Willow).
2- I couldn't understand how Tara would let her do that.
3- When Buffy said: "Is this Hell?", I really thought it was at the time.
Like her own Hell Dimension (Anya said they were a lot of them in S5) created from her fears about growing up.
That could explain a lot in this strange season, like the loose ends, erratic behaviours ( I'm having trouble putting everything on the "not growing-up"),...
...all the fires and talk of fires...
I keep remembering this verse in the first song of OMWF : "Stiil I always feel the same estrangement. Nothing here is real, nothing here is right."
And as for Heaven, she said that time didn't have any meaning, so it could have lasted just a few seconds, when she was in the portal. She was at peace when she jumped because it was the right decision.
So, since it's Hell, it's only natural that it's gonna get worse until Buffy realise that growing up is not that frightening and get back (or is brought back) to the REAL world (which is the title of the last episode BTW).
As for Tara, she appears to me like an angel, sent down to guide Buffy, like she has done in the dreams in Restless. The thing is Buffy has to really listen to the message (she started a little...)
Well, I could talk about that for hours but I gonna end my misery (and yours) and for all of you to call me crazy.
But it will all turn out right in the end, we just don't know how...yet.

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Willow : Now that I know there's something to know, I can't not know, just because I'm afraid somebody'll know I know, you know?
quote:quote:

[Ari]

Aww, man. I just realized something.

In OAFA, what they did was set up Anya to have issues/confrontations with nearly everyone in the group. She got upset at Dawn because of the stealing, at Will for not doing magic and at Tara for getting in her face and protecting Willow.

Then you have AYW where, if I'm not mistaken, they never actually showed her as part of the group. She was in the scenes with Xander, but in the group scenes Xander was there alone.

So they had already begun to set her up as being sort of symbolically detatched from the group. And of course, her complete absence from NA only highlights the degree to which she has now separated herself from the Scoobies.

This is how they are going to get away with the idea that she would let them all die/suffer/etc just for the chance at getting her vengeance on Xander. Who, after all, has always been her primary focus and concern.

Ari

[shellybean]

Guinyan, your theories actually do make sense. At first I had a hard time believing most of the theories that this was all a dream or something because it feels like it would be like a total cop out or waste of a season by Joss. But I just don't really understand what was going on this season. I'm not sure if it was on this thread or not that someone was talking about the inconsistancies of Spike this season, and pretty much everything. But I really don't want to get my hopes up about it all being a dream and that Tara isn't really dead in case its not true.
And the last episode of the season is titled "the Real World"? That sounds like it would actually go along with a lot of these theories. Do I dare to hope?

*edited by me
And it looks like we should start a new thread soon again. Man we fill these up quick.

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Tara: "I understand. You have to be with the person you l-love."
Willow: "I am." – "New Moon Rising"

"But with Tara, I just know she likes Willow, and she already has one of those" – "Family"

"Honey, in case you didn’t hear me the first six-thousand times, no more teleportation spells." – "Crush"

Willow: "I figured, life goes by so fast, if you don’t write stuff down it just gets…lost."
Tara: "Down to every last bagel"
Willow: "Down to every last everything I do with you" – "Forever"

[This message has been edited by shellybean (edited March 20, 2002).]

[Dr.G]

They sure do, 29 pages and not really any new confirmed spoilers, heh, go figure what will happen if we do get something new , still, this thread is probably good for 10 more pages or so.

[shellybean]

Yeah, I guess we're ok until we get into the thirties. Its funny because I log on after a few hours and notice that like 5 or 6 new pages have popped up! and its always too much to read through so I just jump to the most recent messages.

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Tara: "I understand. You have to be with the person you l-love."
Willow: "I am." – "New Moon Rising"

"But with Tara, I just know she likes Willow, and she already has one of those" – "Family"

"Honey, in case you didn’t hear me the first six-thousand times, no more teleportation spells." – "Crush"

Willow: "I figured, life goes by so fast, if you don’t write stuff down it just gets…lost."
Tara: "Down to every last bagel"
Willow: "Down to every last everything I do with you" – "Forever"

[MAJIK]

Wow! I just caught up! See what happens when you can't go on line for a while - all those pages! I'm finding the lack of new spoilage frustrating, so now, after all my reading, I'm going to have another cup of Tea, go back to bed and leave it all behind - no more spoiler searching/reading for me, I'm going spoiler free from now on, no more spoilers, whatever happens, happens.....I think I can do it!

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WILLOW-
'So hard to believe such a hot mama yama came from humble geek-infested roots.'

[NLL]

Hey people,

I don't know ANYTHING about what's going to happen as I am just a little British law student and have no access to the Gods and Goddesses of Buffy.

BUT I have found this on the Internet - sorry if it's been posted before. From an interview with Marti Noxon on the BBC website
(link http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/buffy/intervi ... age9.shtml):

Viewer: Did you enjoy laying the false spoiler trailers for the Buffy and Angel series?

MN: Well we usually throw disinformation assignments to the other writers, and they
have a ball doing that.

I'm not saying that what has been posted doesn't have an element of truth - after all, it is pretty widely circulating... but I would also bear in mind that TV producers can throw out whatever rumours they like through a whole load of different channels. Buffy has done this before. There are always loads of rumours about TV shows like Friends, I was always hearing that Chandler was going to turn out to be gay well HEY he's not!

Plus, I'd bear in mind:
1. Sometimes it has been suggested in the UK that TV execs have filmed several different endings to a show with different people working on each one so only a handful of people know what the truth is. Could happen here.

2. TV companies can sometimes make very last-minute changes to storylines. Even if they have planned what has been said, there's nothing to say they'll go through with it, especially if the word is it'll be incredibly unpopular. BtVS might not always do what the fans or networks want but if they were going to lose all their viewers through just being plain nasty they might have a change of heart...

3. As a last resort, after incredibly unpopular deaths, characters are often brought back. I have to say I would be unhappy if Tara died and only returned after intense fan pressure - I hope she survives anyway as outside interference on the Buffyworld wouldn jar a bit.

How long do we have to wait to find out what happens? Is it a month? It's not long. Spend it watching the old episodes with cute W/T moments and hope for the best!

Know I don't have any hard facts but I am just trying to keep a positive mindset...

[This message has been edited by NLL (edited March 20, 2002).]

[willowtarasandwich]

Just a thought on the 'will they remember what has happened if there is a reset' question.

Assume that a reset DOES occur due to Anya sacrificing herself to save Xander. If nobody remembers the events, one thing is for sure - they'll find out that Anya no longer exists, and that would need some explaining. Confusing, isn't it.

I'd rather Jonathan turn out to be the saver of all, as I've always liked him and I don't want to see him as totally bad.

[mariacomet]

Didn't see these anywhere. This is more stuff from Angel X about ep 18-20.

From Angel X
Re: Spike and whether someone tells him to go to Africa...

As far as I know, he's not told to go by anyone... but his departure happens in 19, and I don't have full information on that episode. He may have know about this demon for a long while and just needed the motivation to finally go to it...I don't know. I don't think it's elaborated on much.

Re: Whether Spike and Anya know they're being watched in 18...

They don't do it knowing they are being watched, but they find out afterwards.

Re: Buffy's reaction to the video of Anya and Spike...

Both Buffy and Xander are upset by what they see because of their former sig. others. Buffy's upset enough that Willow and Dawn figure out that Buffy's had something going on with Spike just by looking at her reaction to what she sees on the screen.

[Ange]

I think that it had been posted before. We had a whole conversation about not talking about Spike. I think that it was at the beginning of it.

Ange.

[theatremouse]

quote:

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Originally posted by d_moonshadow:
Hey..just came from the Internet Movie Database (http://us.imdb.com) and noticed on the Buffy page Amber is listed as playing the character Tara Maclay from 1999-2002.
[This message has been edited by d_moonshadow (edited March 19, 2002).]

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fascinating, and something to ponder, however imdb, while known for being verrrrrrry useful, is also notorious for being frequently incorrect particularly when it comes to details. so i wouldnt recommend taking that as any more of a heads up than any of the spoilers out there, cuz it could very easily be balderdash and chicanery.

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It's horrible! That's me as a vampire. I'm so evil and... skanky. And I think I'm kinda gay.quote:

[kyraroc]

Re: Entropy - "Ok, so this is the law that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction."

Maybe this is a minor point to make, but actually that's a different law, having to do with forces. The laws of thermodynamics can pretty much be summed up as 1) You Can't Win, 2) You Can't Even Break Even, and 3) You Can't Quit. In other words, 1) you never get more energy out of a system than you put into it; energy cannot be created, 2) you always get less usable energy out of a system than you put into it; energy tends to devolve into more random states, and 3) energy cannot be destroyed. Law number 2 is Entropy. So, you can't win, you can't break even, you can't quit. All in all, a neat metaphor for this season, really.

On another note, I've been wondering if perhaps looking at the foreshadowing to see if a big spell (like a reset) is coming up is the wrong approach . . . in Buffy, the supernatural tends to be representative of the real, rather than vice versa. So I started wondering what it might look like to see what the spells this season have been telling us about the characters . . . here's what I came up with, anyway:

1) They are being tested (Bargaining, Life Serial)
2) They will have to keep repeating things until they "get it right" (Life Serial, possibly Once More With Feeling)
3) They are creating their own demons (Afterlife, Once More With Feeling, Hell's Bells, possibly Wrecked)
4) There are no quick fixes (All the Way, Tabula Rasa)
5) This is Hell and we are in it (Bargaining, Afterlife, maybe others)
6) Their greatest danger may be from each other (Tabula Rasa, Normal Again, Once More With Feeling)
7) Er . . . demon attacks make it hard to hold a steady job? (Doublemeat Palace, Life Serial, possibly Hell's Bells)

All in all, a fairly depressing bunch, but I do see some hope in it . . . especially number 2; if it's possible for things to come out OK if they finally "get it right", maybe Willow finally get out of the "losing Tara" cycle. It starts to look like the entire season is, at least in the grand scheme of things, a kind of test of the characters, where, with a little pushing, they create their own hell and then have to see if they can get out of it . . . but at least tests can be passed.

Anyone else have another take on all of this?

--- KR

[MyStrangersFace]

I've read so many SPOILERS, since the Tara=BSD news surfaced, that my head is spinning. However, I am starting to wonder about this Anya getting someone to curse Xander spoiler. I'm posting my thoughts below. I'd like to know what everyone else thinks.

In "Wish" Anya is described as a, "Patron Saint of scorned women", who grants wishes. In "Dopplegangland" Anya say this about herself: "For a thousand years I wielded the powers of The Wish. I brought ruin to the heads of unfaithful men." Alright, given those descriptions how could Warren or Spike possible curse Xander? #1...Xander wasn't unfaithful, he was scared & perhaps weak. #2...Neither Spike nor Warren qualifies as scorned woman. So how could they curse Xander through Anyanka? With the introduction of Halfrek, it seems confirmed that each vengence demon has a specific area in which they grant wishes. So unless Anyanka comes back with a different area of concentration, she can't do anything to Xander without the help of a woman he has scorned. Right? Am I missing something?

As wish/vengence demon theories go, I find it much more plausible that Dawn makes a wish to Halfrek, at the end of the season. It's already been established that Halfrek has a continued interest in Dawn's hapiness (Older & Far Away, Hell's Bells). Returning to Anyanka for a moment, I don't find it hard to believe that Anyanka might try to get Spike to hurt Xander (without wishing). They've consoled each other before (Where The Whild Things Are). Perhaps something like that, plus alot of booze & self-pity, lead to their rumored tryst?

Who knows? It's all so confusing, but I would like to hear what others thing about the Anya/Wish thing. It just doesn't seem possible to me, given past Anyanka/Anya episodes.

Confused & Perplexed,
MyStrangersFace

[kitten scout]

OK, during the re-run of Tabula Rasa last night, the song at the end mentions someone's been pretending for the last three years. I wonder if this could have a hidden meaning, and who could it be pointing to?

[Web Warlock]

Just poking my head in to see if there is any new good news.

Hmmm..

I would not read too much into any lyrics.

Here is an important question.
What time last year did you all learn about Amber's renewed contract?

I know it was "in the summer", but when abouts?

Can we assume that since we have not heard anything that they are either a.) sitting on it til later or b.) that she will not become a series regular or c.) both.

Thanks. I am slipping back into panic again.

Edited to add: So when can we start a support group for teh spoiled!

Warlock.

------------------
Web Warlock
web.warlock@attbi.com webwarlock@planetadnd.com
Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks
The Other Side: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/
Shadow Earth Games: http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock/
The FanCC: http://www.enworld.org/fancc/
--
Jesus saves. Allah forgives. Buddha shows the light.
Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich.

[This message has been edited by Web Warlock (edited March 20, 2002).]

[NLL]

Re: IMDB.

It's true that the webpage is huge and so can get minor details wrong. The site also may suggest Tara is no longer in the show if it looks like she's not been in a few episodes because she and Willow have split up.

[The Big I-T]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ari:
Aww, man. I just realized something.

In OAFA, what they did was set up Anya to have issues/confrontations with nearly everyone in the group. She got upset at Dawn because of the stealing, at Will for not doing magic and at Tara for getting in her face and protecting Willow.

---

Good point. It had occurred to me as well, but I sort of dismissed it at first because her confrontation with Tara in OAFA seemed more of a "reach". Certainly Anya would feel personally wounded by Dawn's stealing from her; and her issues with Willow have been ongoing and not just isolated in this one "heat of the moment" instance. The confrontation with Tara, though, at first seemed not that big a deal to me in that it was a single instance in a singularly panic-laden situation. Silly me...

After re-watching TR last night (3 times, thank you very much...), I was struck by Anya's response to the argument she had with Giles over her wrong "intuitive" choice of magic books. Smacking him upside the head with said magic book, she shouts at him "I feel compelled to take vengeance on you!" Very telling, methinks, in that we know that every one of the characters, despite losing their memories, did retain some essence of who they were before the spell's effects kicked in. The point made -- Anya will always have the Vengeance Demon aspect to her; in fact, TR demonstrates that it's pretty much second-nature to her when she's faced with even the most banal of confrontations -- in this case, not much more than the kind of squabble anyone might have with someone (she thinks) she's engaged to.

Granted, it's not like she took serious vengeance upon Giles in this situation. And moments later she's apologizing with great sincerity as well as an impassioned lip-lock. But the message is there; and it doesn't take a great leap of imagination to anticipate what she is well capable of if/when she's slighted in a more profoundly personal way. Hell hath no fury, etc....thank you very much, Xander...and everybody else, well, here's a little extra something thrown in for you, too...

The glimmer of hope here, of course, is that she is capable of remorse. This is an important aspect of the measure of humanity that she's attained over the course of the last 3 years. While she still fumbles quite a bit from time to time, she has learned some of what it is to be mortal (Joyce), what it is to be loved (Xander), what it is to feel compassion (Dawn), and what it is to be family (with the Scoobs). This, I think, will play large in the final two eps.

--jr

[This message has been edited by The Big I-T (edited March 20, 2002).]quote:

[GODisTigger]

quote:

---

Originally posted by mariacomet:
I think the mostly likely candidate is Warren. But then what would Warren wish for? I am not sure even Anyanka would do something that would truly hurt Buffy and the others, despite how angry she is at Xander.

---

If she's "wish granting", maybe she doesn't have a choice of which wish to grant. In The Wish, even though she kept trying to get Cordy to make a wish against Xander, she still granted the wish against Buffy.

D

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They have Dial-A-Prayer for atheists now. You call up but nobody answers.quote:

[Popje]

OK, I’ve been thinking. There’s a few clues to which posters haven’t really discussed or pondered, but which have been there since the start of S6. So I’m going to throw some out there…

Why is Buffy repeatedly hypnotized by running water? (This was in a few eps now with no explanation as yet)

Why does she repeatedly say she’s missing the “fire”? Doesn’t feel any warmth? She’s slowly showing more affection to the Scoobs, but look how fast that unraveled in “Normal Again”. It seems she’s ping-ponging from wanting to get away from them versus getting back to normal with them. Is someone trying to break her away from the Scoob gang?

Why does she say she feels alive when intimate with the undead (Spike)? Is she still dead? Why was her molecular DNA shuffled if she was “spiritually killed” by mystical energy of the portal?

We’ve had repeated themes of spells and magic devices used for mind-control. Willow, Halfrek, the Geek Trio, Xander (OAWF), (one could even extend Spike’s chip). Is some greater power mind-controlling Buffy? Testing her? Torturing her? AfterLife has her looking at her friends’ pictures and they appear as skulls. Why did she have that vision?