Discussion - S6E4 - "Flooded"

[gypsyfoot]

darvangi - it appears that your name for the nerds The Lame Gunmen® has been adopted by all.

Now how many saw these idiots get in over thier heads by hiring (conjuring?) a demon as an allegory (?) for what Willow did? Once you get the mojo working you have to control it. Just because one sidesteps trouble once that isn't a signal to keep doing what one is doing.

The leaky pipes were predictable, also funny. How many of us have got one thing working right in our life when ten other things go wrong.

Buffy wondering to Giles about how her mother handled everything. If you haven't ever asked yourself how did (whoever raised you) handle everything (keeping a roof over our heads and food on the table, etc.) you will. No matter how good Tara is to Dawn Buffy knows she is the one responsible for Dawn.
Buffy also accepts the responsibility of slaying even tho she has not been the official slayer since the end of season one. Altho the council would like to keep her busy she has twice told them to get out of her life. The slayer to my knowledge has never been given any sort of recompense. Well Faith gets room and board but not from the council.

Giles remark to Buffy that he almost made a friend which was unusual at his time of life, a female friend? How long was Giles gone anyway? BTW Giles was replaced as watcher when Wes showed up.

Hank will be like a running joke, never appearing always talked about.

Hemiola - you were right about Dawns' line about the horn being funny, you just did not include the whole line. That's a funny place for a horn. Oh, that's not a horn!

Xander/Anya I have said else where Xander would dump Anya for Buffy if he had the opportunity. Now I believe if there are repercussions from the resurrection Xander will be the first to dump on Willow. I tried to stop her, I asked if she was sure what she was doing was right, and on and on.

I have rambled enough so I won't go into Spike helping Buffy through all this and she running of to Angel the first chance she gets.

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Willow smiles and Tara blows out the candle!

[This message has been edited by gypsyfoot (edited October 19, 2001).]

[mollyig]

Anybody else think Giles was a bit harsh on Willow? I mean, this is Ripper we're talking about!

Hmm, Although I suppose, maybe Giles has done the channelling evil thing, he just wants to warn Willow about it.

Still, felt sorry for Willow though.

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"Love is a place I dream of - a face that never leaves my mind"
Luka Bloom

[Hugin]

I think the keys to understanding Giles' harsh treatment of Willow is twofold.

1. In the immediately preceding scene, I am firmly convinced Giles more or less guessed what was going on with Buffy. You look at that scene, the things said and unsaid, the body language, Giles' expressions...and then he walks into the kitchen and Willow is all "Whoo, I rock!", and Giles is thinking "Um....you know, I think Buffy wasn't in hell. And I think she's currently miserable."

2. Imagine that you were once a drug addict. Bad. So bad, you almost died, and most of your drug addict friends died from it. And every once in a while, drugs still come back to haunt you and mess up your life. And now someone you're very very fond of is like "Woo, I scored some good drugs this last weekend. And I got some of my friends involved with the drugs too, in fact, I'm going to be dealing drugs soon, because it makes me feel good and I'm really good at it! Oh, and by the way, I've been massively lying to you for months now!"

Considering Giles' experiences with dark magic, coupled with his guesses about Buffy's mental state, coupled with the knowledge that Willow did all this behind his back, which led, as a side note, to the massive expense and upheaval of him moving to another continent, oops....I have no problem with Giles' level of anger.

-len

[shazza]

Just finished watching this. I have to say I am firmly in the "I loved the Lame Gunmen" Camp...going on about their wormholes...such geeks - delightful! (Still have to call them the Lame Gunmen coz it kinda fits whether you love them or hate them)

I have to say that I think so many times when we see a little bit of evil in Willow it is almost like she makes a little physical switch just prior and then seems to come out of it ( like someone else mentioned above). When she threatened Giles, when she made the wispy demon solid, and I know I noticed this one other time but I cant for the life of me remember when it was. So i have been thinking some kind of possession type deal, but obvioulsy this has been discussed before. I mean that was a big-badesque threat she laid on Giles, and then a second later her attitude was completely different. She was all Miss sweety-pie and "lets not fight". Seemed like too much of a switch to me. Only time will tell. (A lot of anxious nail-biting, tossing and turning time mind you).

I hate to say it but I am getting a little bit sick of buffy-angst. Could the poor girl just not catch a break please (a huge one). Since mid season 3 when angel went bad things have never really picked up for buff, and I am really looking forward to things lightening up a bit.

Edited to ad: Joss has said that willow is going to return to her hacker roots this season. maybe this means that this whole willow dark magic thing will come to a head, as it is starting to, will be sorted out and Willow will have to drop the magic, for whatever reason, (possession, power-trip, addiction etc) leaving the way open for tara to become the only witch and therefore more valuable to the Scoobies - which will kill the argument of all those nay-sayers who say that we dont need tara's character as we already have a witch.
i think this makes sense coz Tara seems to be a better witch, more grounded etc, and willows contribution to the group will be in a technical sense like it was in the old days.
I dont think it will take the whole season to sort this out and therefore imho willow ill not be the big bad.

[This message has been edited by shazza (edited October 19, 2001).]

[Ed Wood]

Just seen the episode, and I must say I was really impressed.

First, the acting was fabulous, with Amber, Adam Busch (the guy is signed for 10 eps this year BTW, great news!), ASH and of course Aly being in top form. (there must be something with having a name that starts with A )

The Lame Gunmen were fantastic, really funny, althrough I didn't like the new guy (played by Tom Lenk) very much. He just doesn't have the acting ability of Adam or Danny and with them on the same screen falls into the background fairly easy.

The TV play was exellent, althrough not better than Afterlife's (even if half of the dialogue in AL was cut becouse there was was enough of it for a two hour show!)

Overall, I really liked the episodes so far this season.

EW's rating -> ****

[Kalita]

Warren is signed for TEN episodes?

Okay, this is where I worry....

[Ange]

You know what i like in "Flooded". I like the moment between Tara and Dawn. When Dawn starts to read the book and realize what she sees. I like Amber little smile. I like that moment for the Amber little smile. So cute.

Ange.

[Wonko]

Okay...I liked The Lame Gunman fine...for one or two eps (preferably one.) But 10??? Dear God... okay, just repeat never lose faith, never lose faith...

Nice to Buffy joking again, even if they were forced. And the water gag was the funniest thing in forever. Anyway, I'm repeating what everyone has already said

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Little Johnny was a chemist;
Little Johnny is no more.
For what he thought was H2O was H2SO4.

[Shewolf]

I finally saw the episode(I LOVE Roswellian Hellmouth), and I have to say, I liked it.

It felt like we're finally going back to the BTVS roots of humour/action.It did have a fair amount of angst too, but that's to be expected.

Dawn seems to be replacing Xander in a funniest member of the group capacity. I laughed at most of her lines, and her interaction with Tara was adorable.

The Lame Gunmen were hilarious too, from their little list, to their sci-fi references, to trying to convince the demon not to kill them.

As for the W/G argument, I can't think of anything to say that hasn't been covered already.Just that it looks like trouble's brewing for Willow...

I really felt like smacking Xander across the face!This whole fear of commitment isn't consistent with the way the character grew last season.

And I appreciated the S/B bonding too..but then I appreciate any scene JM is in.

[Kiwiccan]

I just finished watching this episode in out of order bits. I need to watch it in order now. But my first impressions follow.

* Giles/Buffy scenes made my eyes moist. I may need a copper pipe refit.
* Giles/Willow scene: this cold wave come over me. This usually happens (involuntarily) when there is something bad is about to happen, or when I watch scary movies. Willow is suffering from what every young adult goes through, growing pains into the world of maturity. You know when you are all cocky and full of the "I-know-it-all" syndrome. This will last until she is in her early to mid 30s (or late 30s. It depends upon the person. I was about 34-35). I know what you are all thinking right now but all I can say is wait and you will find out what I'm talking about...when you hit your 30s. We all go through it in our own way and to differing degrees. Willow's just going through it in a BIG way.
* Disliked the testosterone challenged trio. Gave them way to much screen time. What is Joss thinking?

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Paula
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Amber FanGirl #1a; May the Amber Force be with you.
Keeper of my own insanity
"I love being a girl, having a girl.." ~as sung by Amber Benson in the UK

[This message has been edited by Kiwiccan (edited October 19, 2001).]

[gypsyfoot]

Somebody please re-assure me (without being spoilery) that Willow is not going bad and start being the leader of THE LAME GUNMEN®.
Willow does want recognition and approval, bet they would supply it.

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Willow smiles and Tara blows out the candle!

[ATWindsor]

quote:

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Originally posted by mollyig:
The 3 unwise men aka the lame gunmen.

O-lordy what idiots they are. I mean, one of them actually used "parsec" in a sentence!

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Hey, parsec is a perfectly nice meuserment of length don diss it , (although I never heard them say it, what was the circumstances?)quote:

[mucifer]

this episode to me wasnt nearly as good as afterlife except for willow and giles and the pipe scene. (perfect comedic timing in that scene).

i really agree with len about the willow giles stuff. i think willow will eventually learn from her crazed behavior.
lame gunmen , well i'm willing to give em a chance.they have to be better than the initiative or the lone gunmen. what happened to the promise of the show going back to humor this season? ok maybe a silly big bad but angsty buffy and willow behavior is soooo nerve racking it's hard to notice the humor at times. oh speaking of humor who else noticed the promo for next week when they changed the logo for btvs to btconstruction worker that did crack me up go upn.
now we just need one big looooong w/t kiss x/a got one in the middle of a fight. now is that fair? ok perhaps i'm too demanding.

[Queen of Denial]

quote:

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Hey, parsec is a perfectly nice meuserment of length don diss it , (although I never heard them say it, what was the circumstances?)

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well, here's a snippet from the script where warren says parsec.
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The demon SMASHES a wad of bills out of Jonathanis hand, grabs him by the neck, and LIFTS. Jonathan's feet dangle.

M'FASHNIK DEMON
You cannot pay me with paper,
tiny king. For pitting me against
the Slayer, I must kill you.

Andrew and Warren snicker, exchange grins and a little "thumbs up."

M'FASHNIK DEMON (cont'd)
Then suck dry your bones and use them
to beat your subjects to death.

Andrew and Warren jump to their feet.

WARREN
Whoa, big guy, let's back things up
a parsec. Now, if you kill us?
Everybody loses. But - let us live,
we give you ...

M'FASHNIK DEMON
Give me what?

JONATHAN
(choking)
Name it.

quote:

[gypsyfoot]

quote:

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Originally posted by mucifer:
who else noticed the promo for next week when they changed the logo for btvs to btconstruction worker that did crack me up go upn.

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missed that.
Now have visions of SMG in tube top, low riding jeans and tool belt.
Ooooooooooohhhh my gawd that makes it hard...er...ah...ehhh.. yah hard hat area. Put a hat on the lady before she gets sunstroke.

edited to add:
Faith : (to Buffy, smiling sexily) I like.... butch. S3E14 Bad Girls

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Willow smiles and Tara blows out the candle!

[This message has been edited by gypsyfoot (edited October 20, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by gypsyfoot (edited October 20, 2001).]quote: