by Belli Bear » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:26 pm
by Second Fig » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:30 pm
[blockquote]Still I could not hear her. For three years I took her will. I broke her soul again and again and still I did not see.
I feel sick to think of it now. She told me so clearly how I had taken and hurt her and I comforted her with a repeat of these unspeakable acts. [/blockquote]
by spells42 » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:21 pm
by ellisande » Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:04 am
by spells42 » Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:24 pm
She cried that losing your will was the worst thing that could happen. That to give up her body would break her soul again and again.
by dlline » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:07 pm
I remembered him as a bore…
… he was the world’s dullest man, four marks or no.
Lady Finn studied me for a moment as if to determine my attitude. Then she smiled broadly. “Well done, Lady Maclay…”
For a moment, I felt anger at having been tested so but I could appreciate the effort and smiled in return before motioning toward the door.
Zhorro’s fourth litter produced seven pups and Dani took it upon herself to give them to the children of the village rather than selling them as hunting dogs. I found her choice to be as endearing as it was generous.
Did Faith know something? And what did she know? Why did she not tell me? Warn me? If I saw her doing something so abhorrent, so wrong I would tell her.
… I became more and more possessive of my girl. My wanting her, that was a norm. I always wanted her and she was used to my needs and wants but this was an even stronger need.
She whispered her love so quietly I would have missed if I had been five seconds closer to sleep.
My growing torment tells me that Dani is, was, a well-trained servant. The most perfect of servants and that being that well trained, she knew what her Mistress wanted to feel and hear.
by Alcy » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:45 pm
by tazraven » Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:20 am
When I mentioned the idea to Faith she looked at me sideways, pursed her lips, and answered that we needed no horses. When I mentioned it to Dani… she left the room without answer. It was the first time she had ever done such a thing and part of me wanted to follow her to ask why she was so mad but the other was too shocked at her departure to react.
Faith looked across the room. “What of you, my lovely sister and Lady. Will you marry?”
I followed her eyes to where she gazed across the room at Giles and Dani bent over a book on astronomy. For a moment my throat felt tight and I thought to speak the truth. To tell Faith that I loved Dani dearly and would never marry but I could not do it, even for my sister. “I can not afford courting time.”
My sister never took her eyes off my lover. “Of course, My Lady.”
We made love. Made love. I can’t believe I use that term even. But I thought it was and so I will. We made love morning and night for days—her need for me seeming as insatiable as my own for her.
And it was then that I first heard the words I had dreamt of for so long. She whispered her love so quietly I would have missed if I had been five seconds closer to sleep. Then it would have just been the seed of the greatest dream of my life but said as it was, it filled my heart with joy. I turned sleepily to kiss her lips and repeat my love again and again as tears rolled down both of our faces.
So I had my confession of love. The words I had desired for so long. Those I had requested hundreds, no thousands, of times. And part of me wants to believe them. Wants to believe that Dani loved me just as I wish I could believe that she wanted me. All those times. So many times. And that part of me, a part which grows smaller and weaker every minute which passes, sits here waiting for her to return to me.
The larger part of me? My growing torment tells me that Dani is, was, a well-trained servant. The most perfect of servants and that being that well trained, she knew what her Mistress wanted to feel and hear. I can not blame her for I don't accuse her of deciept, of trickery or manipulation. Rather, she could detect my longing for her (for who could not?) and gave in to that longing. I pulled those words from her lips as I pulled her dignity from her body.
Over and over.
“Will you meet your husband at this wedding?” I sat up quickly and grasped her wrists in my hands but I could not find the words to answer her question. In truth, I was so busy wanting to keep her from the wedding that I had not even considered my future.
“No. I will not.”
She rolled over and pulled my arms to wrap around her body. “I know what you must do, My Lady, but I do not want us to have a husband.” I attempted to soothe and shush her but she had started crying as I had never seen, even the night of her marks. I could not make out everything she said but bits and pieces were clear. She cried that losing your will was the worst thing that could happen. That to give up her body would break her soul again and again.
And to use her words it would break her soul again and again.
Again and again.
Oh Creator! Why did it take me so long to understand her words? Still I did not listen. Still I could not hear her. For three years I took her will. I broke her soul again and again and still I did not see.
I feel sick to think of it now. She told me so clearly how I had taken and hurt her and I comforted her with a repeat of these unspeakable acts.
And yet.
And yet, I sit here confused and conflicted. This is the first time I have gone through our entire story from the beginning and I can see evidence from both sides. Years ago I knew without doubt and without reservation that my girl loved me as I do her. Her actions, her words, support this hope. But the converse of that interpretation is clearly more reasonable: that Dani, led only by my perverse wishes and her binding fulfilled my wants as she would any order. That she did these things, said these words, to satisfy me, regardless of her own wishes. And that she attempted to tell me, did she not, what this meant? But I did not listen at the time and by the time I did, I could hardly look at her.
by grimlock72 » Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:43 am
Lady Tara wrote:Did Faith know something? And what did she know? Why did she not tell me? Warn me?
by db » Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:43 pm
by watty » Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:30 pm
“I know what you must do, My Lady, but I do not want us to have a husband.”
by Cynthia Taz » Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:59 pm
The larger part of me? My growing torment tells me that Dani is, was, a well-trained servant. The most perfect of servants and that being that well trained, she knew what her Mistress wanted to feel and hear.
by Emms » Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:07 am
by tarawhipped » Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:52 pm
Truly a fascinating story, Debra.
by barnabasvamp » Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:01 pm
by JustSkipIt » Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:39 am
LOL. I’ve got a mental image now of Dani deciding that she needs to get Tara’s attention and hitting her over the head with said fish. Mackeral? Sturgeon? Flounder (that would be a funny one)? Puffer? Tee hee.Come-on Tara! Wake up and smell the exploitation! What does Dani have to do, hit her over the head with a fish?
Even if you are pmsing, I will take it as a compliment. It is sad. It’s a no-win situation no matter how you look at it and if you try to figure out what Dani is thinking and feeling it is really really sad, not to mention Tara’s self-abuse at this point.Anyway, I don’t know maybe I am pms’ing but I kinda cried when I read this, it is just so sad on so many levels.
Excellent point. I can’t say that I had thought of it that way but I guess that is exactly what is happening here.Once again you are using location to your advantage in the story and as a catalyst for change, I like it.
Yes, the interaction was part social and part test as is usual for these people. I think that makes Tara’s mastery of it at age 20 somewhat impressive and at the same time, what a burden it would be. I agree that Dani was touched/moved by the policy and Tara’s enforcement of same. I’ll admit that I think that it starts to show that Tara thinks about/like a servant more and more as she is on Maclay East and with Dani. In this case, you might notice that she is concerned not only with what Dani feels but what all the servants feel.ps:The whole interaction between Lady Finn and Tara was interesting, how they tested each other with their servants, human lives. Tara seemed more concerned that it was her fathers policy to refuse, a standing policy that she could act upon. I think that it was part of what started Dani’s, not realizing her feelings but started her expressing them to Tara.
Hello and if I haven’t said it before, welcome. I agree with you that Tara needs to start to consider that the system is quite broken but we’re also approaching it from outside and she is not. She is approaching it from within and from within, it’s very hard for her to see that there is a problem with the system. I think to us it would be like if someone was watching us and said, “you know there should be no currency” or “work should be optional” or something. It’s a pretty foreign idea to her, plus which freeing Dani could mean that she loses Dani.This says almost everything needed about how pernicious the mark binding system is. I'm saddened that even after hearing that Tara wasn't able to seriously start thinking about protecting Dani, not just temporarily by leaving her behind, but permanently by freeing her from her binding.
Not disagreeing. And yes, Dani is in a quite terrible position with regard to being bound and to being at the mercy of Tara’s eventual husband. Her situation is quite worse than Tara’s ever would be regarding said husband which has got to be very creepy.She faced up to it and made the best of it - probably loving Tara helped with that: it's evident that she does love Tara.
I don’t think that you’re being dense and I believe that someone farther down the list also asks this same question (approximately). I think that Dani has many reasons to be upset that Tara is leaving her behind. Off the top of my head:On the other hand, I don't get why Dani is so upset at being left at the estate for Anne's marriage. She must be as aware of the likelihood of some Lord asserting his mark rights over her as Tara is, and as averse to the prospect. Perhaps she doesn't believe that Tara will not get married? With regard to appearances, I would've thought that Tara's eminence was sufficient to survive being without her bondservant, and for such a reasonable purpose as minding the estate. I'm probably being dense here.
An excellent point. She is completely subsumed by the society in which she lives and prospers. On one hand she appears to have genuine affection for her own servants and the residents of her village (whom she thinks of as “our people.”) She wants those to prosper and be happy. On the other hand, she is full of **** in her interactions with all the other nobility. So, no, not that attractive…Once again, with the wedding formalities, etc, you've illustrated a world so different, and incidentally underlined the maturing of Tara's character including the progression of her acceptance of her position and responsibilities to an unconscious belief in her own importance and power. Not necessarily an attractive aspect of her personality.
Excellent.Wow, Deb, again lots of comments and a couple of questions.
It’s an excellent question and I’m not sure that at this point whether Tara has rights is the important concern. I don’t think that Tara wants to get to sleep with Dani because she has the right. She seems to me to genuinely want Dani to want to sleep with her. As far as whether Tara has marks rights, I’m still not answering that but again, it’s not relevant at this point whether she does—only whether she believes she does. But here’s the thing: does it matter whether she has marks-rights specifically? Her rights to command Dani are actually great than marks-rights. She can’t countermand marks-rights from someone else but her marks are basically that Dani has to serve her with every thought and deed. At that point do marks-rights matter?Maybe it’s not so wrong. I mean, and I know I’ve wondered this before, but why wouldn’t Tara have marks rights with Dani? Her husband would (you’ve made that abundantly clear), and so does anyone else with the proper marks, so why wouldn’t Tara?
An excellent question and again one I’m not ready to answer. I will (again – sounding like a broken record (“Mom, what’s a record?”)) say that it doesn’t matter if “the queer thing” is taboo—only whether Tara thinks it is.Is the queer thing taboo? If it is, I just missed it, but I still wonder.
Good points.Of course, I believe that Faith knows. She’s not stupid and she spends a lot of alone time with Dani. I don’t think its like they swap locker room stories, but Faith is perceptive, and she grew up with Dani too.
What an incredibly yich thought.So Dani is upping the ante in the hot monkey love department (as demonstrated by the damaged furniture) because she’s so well trained that she gives her mistress what she wants. Itchy stuff here. She’s making hot and heavy with the spicy talk. It seems clear to me that the more Tara wants her, the more Dani responds. That definitely harkens back to the quality of her training.
You cynic! You can’t just believe that Dani is saying “I love you” and making with the “hot monkey love” because she really does love Tara? Geez. What is the world coming to? Ok. Your ewww is a very valid concern.I wish this made me more comfortable, but it just doesn’t, and I know its not supposed to. Ok, Dani finally cut loose with the three magic words, but again, there’s that issue of proper and complete training. Again, I say ewww.
Oh she gets it. Maybe too much… What if she has been right all along and Dani loves her but now she totally doubts Dani and I kicking herself?Finally! I think she gets it. And it also pretty much answers my earlier concerns. The unfortunate part here for Tara is that, once again, hindsight is 20/20.
Take a look at my response to Anne just above this one, please.I completely understand why Tara wants Dani to stay behind (the marks rights thing), but why is Dani so upset by this?
Interesting point. I think that there’s plenty in the narrative to make the sex seem kind of yich or questionable but when you combine it with the increasingly horrendous tone of the narrative itself, it gets even more blech.As much as I love to read that a couple of been enjoying plenty of sex…it disturbed me as Tara describes the weeks leading up to the Finn’s visit and throughout the chapter, but of course this is because the whole time I was reading it I could not keep it separate from the underlying vibe of the story thus far and the broken Tara in the story’s present.
I think that part is shared by many readers.and a part of me more than anything wants to jump up and yell at Tara, ‘of course Dani loves you, you great dummy!’
Good.But I share Tara’s confusion at the very end of the chapter as she allows herself to think that perhaps Dani loved her and made love with her out of her own free will. However, she quickly returns to using the binding as an excuse for torturing herself…and I really can’t tell whether she should be feeling the way she does or not.
Unfortunately we won’t have a good view of Dani’s view until the sequel. But your sense of romance is endearing and encouraging.What I would give for Dani’s view of events! I think perhaps I am having trouble accepting the view of her as a ‘well trained servant,’ simply by virtue of my own prejudices – I don’t think Dani could ever be simply that.
Everyone seems to agree on this and I will neither confirm nor deny it.Ok, so Faith knows. Or at least, I think she does…. I mean, it seems pretty obvious. She called Tara out on her request to have Dani and herself go to buy horses, and then she looked directly at the girl while asking Tara if she would marry. I mean, I can’t say for sure that she is one-hundred percent certain, but I think it’s safe to say that she at least suspects a great deal.
You make an excellent question/point there. What could Faith do and would she? We really have no idea whether Tara sleeping with Dani is even a problem in their society? Yes, she’s never heard of it before but she is in a very sheltered position. Even if it is a problem there is really little that anyone could do. Tara’s father could speak to her but since her position is greater than or equal to his, he could not force anything. It could damage their social position if frowned upon but that is really the only power anyone would have. The truth is that Dani belongs to Tara and can not be taken away and that Tara is Lady Maclay which can not be taken away short of a violent overthrow of her position.My question is, what could Faith do about it? I mean, what would happen in a situation like that? Would Faith be able to call Tara on it? Or would it be a sort of mark-rights, something that no one seems to talk about but everyone knows that it happens. I know that fact that it’s two women instead of a man and a woman changes the situation slightly, but Tara is a five mark noble. She’s a magic user and the head of an estate. Could anyone really say anything about it?
Oh yeah. Very creepy and not all that W/T ish. At the same time, I hope that they still are recognizable as the W/T we know and love but yes, I see what you’re saying.Quote:
We made love. Made love. I can’t believe I use that term even. But I thought it was and so I will. We made love morning and night for days—her need for me seeming as insatiable as my own for her.
Argh! I love this story Debra, and for things just like what is quoted above. It’s not a Willow and Tara story, not really. Willow and Tara stories are happy, for the most part at least. They have some angst, but it’s usually overcome without too much fanfare. I mean, yes, it has a girl named Tara, and a girl I assume will be named Willow when she is eventually freed, but right now? It’s sort of creepy.
Well, I’ll confess that when I’ve described this story to other people, that’s the word I use to describe Tara’s understanding of her actions. It’s not necessarily that I say that she has been raping Dani but that she comes to understand/believe that she has been. So the word choice is both sickening and right on.I hate to say this, really I do because it shouldn’t be happening, and the word itself carries such a negative connotation that some people may hate me after I say it. But, I think it’s true. It’s rape. Tara is raping Dani. Whether or not Dani’s enjoying it doesn’t matter. It’s against her consent.
(I didn’t quote the whole part that you were quoting but it was a good choice for this particular point). Yes, it’s totally off for Tara to push so hard for that profession and even more hurtful to Dani (if we assume that she loves Tara) that Tara chooses not to believe the answer that she’s been pushing Dani to give for years. How incredibly painful.We have it. The admission of love, overshadowed by what I just talked about. It’s an act. Maybe a partly truthful act, which I’m not sure I even believe anymore, but an act nonetheless. Dani is breaking my heart. This is where the crying started. I couldn’t help it. Dani told Tara she loves her, but all I can think is how wrong it is. I repeat my statement from earlier feedback. Tara does not deserve Dani
Wow. I pity Tara if you meet her in a dark alley – that’s for sure. I totally get where you’re coming from that Tara is taking advantage of Dani and that’s a reasonable interpretation (and that’s Tara’s interpretation too). In her defense… oh heck. Why do I want to defend her? I’ll say this: It’s Tara’s story and her narrative and her prejudice. It is possible to read that line in a slightly different way and give it a different meaning or emphasis. It’s also possible that Tara is not quoting directly given that she’s now so guilt-ridden. Perhaps Dani said something more direct about the husband and Tara has applied it to herself? Or maybe Dani absolutely intended Tara to hear it against herself. It’s very open but I get what you’re saying. (Please trust me).Quote:
… That to give up her body would break her soul again and again.
There! Again and again! This is where the crying got worse. And this is also why I no longer believe that Dani loves Tara, not fully at least. Maybe she loves her partly, or grew to love her. Maybe the love she had for Tara was just friendship, and Tara forced the sexual part of the relationship. Either way, something is not right. Something is being forced and someone is taking without consent. I love Tara in almost every story on this board. She is almost always betrayed as caring, considerate, loving, and above all perceptive. But god damnit, this Tara pisses me off. In fact, I may even go as far as to say I don’t like her. There are very few things worse than rape, and again I use that term because I think it is. Rape. I’ll finish with my last two quotes.
I think that’s a reasonable interpretation. I also think that she has been struggling with the idea for a long time. Remember the dream she had of Dani’s face both in joy and sadness. So she’s been trying to figure it out for a long time.Broke her soul. That’s quite an interesting way of putting it. It’s true. I don’t know Dani’s feelings, but we know Tara’s in depth. The girl needed a clue, and even this big whopper couldn’t get through her head. If being told by her “love” that losing her will again and again sucks, and she still can’t understand it, then she just doesn’t want to. Maybe Tara knew the entire time, but was just too caught up in the fantasy of love to realize.
Again, I’m not disagreeing and I will warn you to consider the source of the narrative and her current emotional state. There is a tremendous amount that we simply don’t know about Dani’s feelings.Before this chapter, I could believe that Dani loved Tara in a way. Maybe it wasn’t the same way Tara loved Dani, but it was love just the same. But to have your free will taken every day and night, to twist your love of a friend into something wrong and forced, and to have to speak words of love to said person because it is expected, takes away any thought I have for the love Dani has for Tara.
We’ll see.I guess I just hope now that Tara figures out her mistakes soon, and tries to make amends by letting Dani go as soon as possible.
Thank you so much for your wonderful comments and your emotion! It’s great to see you getting so involved with this story.Amazing and thought-provoking chapter Debra. Looking forward to seeing how this will end.
See my answer above to Anne. I also think that Cam makes some good points. I’m just too lazy to want to retype or copy and paste.Thankfully I'm not alone in not understanding why Dani is so upset not going with Tara to MaClay Main? Nothing she has said so far gives any basis for that upset, if she fears Tara will get married there she must know there is really no way she would be able to prevent it??
Agreed. One thing that I’ve tried to do over the last few updates is show that simultaneously Tara is becoming a much more equal partner with Dani at the same time that she’s becoming aware of her domination over her. It’s a strange simultaneous change but yes, this time she wants to keep Dani safe more than she wants to possess her for her own.This time around Tara does appear to want to keep Dani safe, as opposed to the jealousy-fest of last time.
Oh no. Tara and Faith have spoken many many times but I believe that the times in which Faith believes she can speak with candor are few and far between. I can’t say (right now) whether she approves or disapproves but I promise that we shall hear from Faith before the end of this story (spoiler!).In retrospect Faith appears to understand why Dani wants to come to MaClay Main with Tara? Or is it just that she understands and disapproves of why Tara doesn't want Dani at that party (which is what I initially thought) ? Apparently Tara hasn't talked with Faith yet since, which is sort of interesting.
Ah good question. That wasn’t my intention. My intention was more that it wasn’t so much of a dancing occasion given the limited people attending. Sort of the difference between going dancing with friends and staying in to play board games or something to that effect.This was a fun one "Later we had music but had not planned for dancing.".. am I being verrry suspicious by assuming Tara didn't want Dani to dance ??
I didn’t mean molested in the purely sexual definition of the word but more of a term indicating being bothered or touched or even insulted. But in the purely sexual meaning of the words, I would think that there was probably very little of the “molesting” done. And as far as why does it go on? Again it’s archaic and I don’t think that people probably put a lot of thought into why it goes on or if it should.This was rather disturbing: "but for the most part our servants were left unmolested" , esp. "most part" .. so some WERE molested? And if that's recognized as molestation why is it allowed?
Lol! Yes, Tara does very little in terms of getting anything ready for Dani. You might have noticed her sense of wonder and surprise when she saw her closet and Dani’s armoire after Dani’s marking. That’s because she never goes in there! How long has Dani been gone? Short enough that she has not needed a change of clothes (more spoilers – what is going on with me today?).Tara packing Dani's clothes does indicate she actually expects her return, which is a first. Come to think of it, Tara packing clothes is probably a first too wink Hmm.. how long has Dani been gone then?
Yes.It was nice to read how Tara and her team build-up Maclay East. It is good to see they can create real things without falling back to status or rank. Creating through actual work, good.
This is perhaps the best fucking question I’ve read in the course of the story. Or up there near the top of the list. Most people would not know that they’ve lost their free will either at the time nor after. The way that the magic works is that the servant wants what his her master (or in the case of marks-rights some superior noble) wants. Ahead of time the servant may have a will but once the magic is invoked (basically through a desire of the nobility) that will be gone. But that just means that the servant won’t necessarily resist nor mourn the lost of the free will but that doesn’t mean that the will is not gone. My theory regarding Dani’s will? 1. I believe that she is more intelligent and therefore more sensitive to understanding the meaning of the aspects of society (see Brave New World, etc.). 2. Her magic does help her to have a stronger feeling and stronger bond to the magic of this world. 3. She has done plenty of thinking on the topic of her free will and losing it. Should she lose it (or if she has as when she took the herbs foisted on her by Tara) she would have dreaded it in advance but gotten over it immediately upon succumbing. 4. It’s entirely possible that the nobility believe that their power over their servants is actually greater than it is. Given the limited amount of candor from servant to noble, how do they know that the servants automatically want what they want?How does one realise you HAVE lost your free will? I assumed the 'will' was simply influenced strongly by the mistress of such a bonding, without the servant realising much that their own ideas were modified to fit their mistress' needs.
I think that parts of her life suck beyond all question.That must make for a VERY awful life.
The marks remain physically but the “freed-servants bond” completely removes the magic within the mark. So freeing Dani from her bond would free her from the marks-rights claims but would also remove her from Tara’s protection and employ (for lack of a better word).One question remains after reading some of the other feedback; free-ing (unbinding) Dani from Tara, would that protect her against higher marked men at all? I was under the impression that wouldn't help much since the marks don't change or are they removed on free-ing??
Well, a lot happened that day. Quite honestly, if I had known about all the updates that would be posted last Tuesday I would have waited a few days to post. Nothing lost though except a few people who didn’t realize the story was updated as early. But you’re caught up now…Well, crap. I guess I really *should* read the update thread. Blush
Excellent.Wow. I have so much to say and more questions than ever.
Yes and yes. And it’s a good thing that she’s decided to judge herself harshly as there is really no one else who can. You make a great point about the Tara/Faith and Tara/Finn interactions as far as their breaking protocol. I think that in both cases these are exceptions rather than the norm. With Faith it’s acceptable only because of the closeness and trust they share and with Lady Finn it was part of a test and was not personal. I guess it was more of an interaction between two Ladies than between two people. Does that make sense?Every nuance of Tara's interactions are governed by a sense of societal rules! In terns of things she both does and does not do she is in this position of being judged... and in this update we get to see her harshest critic, herself.
You as well as some other readers are wondering this. As I spoiled above, we shall hear a bit from Faith before the end and some of you questions will be answered. I will say that if Faith does know, it seems apparent from some of the comments that she makes that she doesn’t disapprove of the relationship.I think Faith knows about Dani and Tara -- I'd be blind not to think so (with the veiled questions and Faith's attitude toward Tara's decisions, it seems obvious). What I am not entirely clear on is how Faith sees what is going on. On the one hand, love is clearly reveared in this society. Tara's mother and father were *legendary* for it... and Tara loves Dani, with all her heart. I know she does because she is berating herself for the very thing that clearly brought them both joy.
Yes. That would be a very good reason for Dani to want to go with Tara (see others listed above). Given that Dani believes that Tara will marry/be forced to marry, she would want to make sure that Tara doesn’t arrive home with some totally gross suitor.To a certain extent, I finally feel like I get where Dani is coming from. I am not surprised at all that Dani is heartbroken that she is basically being forbade to go -- Tara, the woman she just professed her love to (the woman she is probably petrified *can't* truely love her because of her station) is abusing the power she holds over her. It is a betrayal in the grandest sense because Tara really is the 'big catch' societally in their relationship. This wedding can't be viewed as anything outside of societal norms,and we already know that this is the type of affair where marriages are made. *of course* this makes Dani uncomfortable - she would basically be a sex slave for Tara's husband. I should think that it would feel better/more empowering to be at Tara's side offering counsel; having an opinion; being considered.
I think it’s safe to assume that her self-realization doesn’t extend that far quite yet.I wonder if Tara realizes that by *forbiding* Dani from attending she is robbing her of free will too?
Boy, there’s something you don’t read every day…I am glad that Tara is beating herself up …
Absoultely! Given that she is aware of just how much power Tara has over her, wouldn’t she want to save it for something only she wanted to say? (btw: yes, we will find out why she has not said it before this). And yes, it is totally heartbreaking to Dani to be left behind even after professing her love for Tara but not just for that reason. Also, do keep in mind that the lapse between Dani’s words of love and Tara leaving her behind for the wedding is about 6 months so it’s not like it comes immediately after.I wonder if Dani never said it before because in pretty much all of Tara's waking moments it is something she wanted to hear Dani say - so Dani felt 'complelled' by the marks and their connection and that this feeling tainted the meaning behind the words. I can see Dani wanting the words, when they were said, to come from a pure place in her heart.
I strongly suspect that Dani understands most of what Tara does but she doesn’t really have the ability to protest some of it.Dani doesn't know how much Tara fears the marks rights taking, they don't discuss it (probably because their own relationship falls under that taboo), so Dani can have no way of knowing what Tara's true motivation is. Maybe she suspects it -- she did, after all, get irritated with the whole "go to town for a horse" thing.
Yes and yes. Just as on the show. Speaking of which, did you see American Idol? I don’t usually watch but an acquaintance of mine writes the recaps for TWOP and I’ve gotten hooked on his recaps so I started watching a bit here and there. Simon and Ryan yelling at each other to “get out of my closet”… “come out”… Lol!Still loving the formalities and sense of decorum in the setting and narration. Tara and Dani having to stop doing magic together in case Lady Finn senses their magic signature is so much like being in the closet, all the hiding and denial ... know it well, sigh.
If I had scoreboard…Oh, and Faith is aware that they're lovers, I'm pretty sure of that.
As to the question of whether Dani means what she said to Tara, that she loves her. I'm in two minds. Yes I agree that she is well trained and attuned to Tara's wishes. But yet she says …
I think you put that very very well. Understand that Tara’s husband would only “own” Dani sexually (not that it’s a much better thing but it’s something) whereas Tara would continue to own Dani entirely (in comparison Riley will “own” Delia, Lord Maclay “owns” D’elam, but Stefan will have no rights over Dawn). I agree though that Dani is not a pod person but a person with individuation and needs and wants and wishes.Gods, that must have been very sobering, knowing that Tara's husband will as much own Dani as Tara. And Dani would have realized it, probably a long long time ago. And yet she initiated their physical relationship. How long and often can she give up her soul, her feelings and her body so utterly to Tara without actually feeling some of it herself. I guess we can argue that her entire existence is geared towards Tara's happiness, and she has no such needs herself except Tara, but I don't see Dani as a pod person -- surely she needs to have her own inner thoughts in order to have a personality. I guess what I'm saying is I've been trying to think this through and all I can think of is no one will know because their lives are so intertangled, in everything they've shared so far. Can either of them think about "love" independent of the other?
Yes, it’s quite frustrating that Tara continues to do this as if it can go on forever. But let me lay something out here that no one has noticed. There is something very different about this decision on Tara’s part. In the past, Tara has made her choices by herself. In determining that they should move to Maclay East, she spoke to her father before Dani. In attempting to keep the Lords from Dani at Anne/Faith’s celebration she did so below the table. But here she actually directly spoke to Dani to tell her that she was leaving her behind. True: she wasn’t entirely honest about the why but it wasn’t like she waited until two days before and then said Dani wasn’t going like she was some teenager who ran the car out of gas and is now grounded from the Coldplay concert or something.Now the wisdom of leaving Dani behind. If Dani is so well trained, she won't get upset. So it gives me comfort that she isn't Tara's blind possession as Tara describes. Thing is, how much longer can they do this? Every time there is a threat that some lord will take mark rights with Dani, Tara hides her away. It's so typical of the ostrich mentality that Tara has developed. Argh.
Agreed 100%.Quote:
The larger part of me? My growing torment tells me that Dani is, was, a well-trained servant. The most perfect of servants and that being that well trained, she knew what her Mistress wanted to feel and hear.
Unless Dani's totally free from the bond, Tara'll probably always doubt Dani's confession of love for her. Happy – Not
Thank you so much.Speechless here (or practically)
My current plan is that the entire sequel to this story will be told from Dani’s pov.While reading this I wondered again about Dani's POV and thought perhaps we'll get to hear briefly from her once Tara's done telling her story.
If there was a cookie for this particular point, I believe it would go to you. I think that there are many ways to interpret what Dani said. Tara happens to have gleaned onto the one that paints her as a monster but I’m not agreeing that that is how Dani meant it.So... when Dani and Tara were making love and Dani said that thing about it hurting her to be taken advantage of over and over again, she was speaking about her relationship with Tara? 'cos I didn't get that from that... I just kept thinking that (the narrator Tara) Tara's overreacting or making a dramatic deal out of something that's not what she thinks it is…. And I'm still not entirely convinced that what Tara took it to mean was what Dani was actually saying
See my response to Anne.It makes me wonder though, why Dani so desperately wanted to go with Tara to the wedding... was it really only because she wanted to be there to assure her lady's safety and well being or was there some kind of ulterior motive at hand?
I think that’s a wonderful and beautiful point.She knows what it would mean for both of them, and I think that's where her comments about losing her will and control of her body came from. I saw it as her talking about that happening to Tara as well as herself. She's not accusing Tara of using her (I still maintain that she doesn't see it that way because she loved Tara since before they were bound)...she's saying "I don't want to be anyone else's but yours" and "I don't want you to be anyone else's but mine."
by db » Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:16 pm
Ok, I can think of one and only one positive effect of her sharing marks-rights with a man. Actually that would have to be one specific man (yes, already mentioned extensively) for one specific reason and only assuming one very specific factor. Any guesses from anyone? Anyone think of something that Dani could get positive out of sharing marks-rights with one specific Lord in this story?
by grimlock72 » Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:04 pm
Faith wouldn't mind 
; let's assume for a moment that Dani comes back. She and Tara can't continue the way they were since Tara wouldn't want that (nor I suspect Dani but am unsure of her current status). However, even if they try to become a more equal couple.. how can Tara ever get past her feelings of guilt? Even if Dani forgives her eventually.. will Tara forgive herself?
(speaking of which, who will be in charge when Tara and co. go to the wedding?)by JustSkipIt » Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:52 pm
The rules are quite confusing and sometimes I wish I had made a map for myself. I’ve been thinking of the sequel quite a bit and started sketching a family tree in my head to keep that in order. Anyway, you are close. If Dani shared marks-rights with Donnie she would have a magic user (if it were a girl) but Donnie doesn’t have any rights over Dani because she is bonded to Tara who has 5 marks while he only has 4 until their father dies. By the time their father dies, you can bet he will have married and passed on his “one-use-only” magic user with his wife. The family is simply too well connected and visible for him to fail to do so. Also, I can’t tell whether you were clear about this Donnie will pass on his magic user genes but so will Tara, Faith, and Anne. They should each have a magic user child.Ummmm. Since Dani's a magic-y person, if she shared marks rights with Donnie wouldn't (if it were a girl) Dani be the one to bear the next special magic-y Maclay? I mean, of course, if Tara decided to pass. Or have I got it all kerfluffled in my head? hmm
It'd have to be someone who's a Lord anyway.
Your Lord/Lady rules confuse me. I want a map!
I’m going to refer people to that quote from now on when writing my feedback. Tara is an inherently unreliable narrator and possibly growing less reliable as it gets later and she gets more guilty.this is Tara telling the story after all, she might skip things.
I think that’s a very valid concern. I wish I could give you some reassurance but alas…Something different I wondered about future-time of this story (and thus you can't respond to it much wink ; let's assume for a moment that Dani comes back. She and Tara can't continue the way they were since Tara wouldn't want that (nor I suspect Dani but am unsure of her current status). However, even if they try to become a more equal couple.. how can Tara ever get past her feelings of guilt? Even if Dani forgives her eventually.. will Tara forgive herself?
I think it’s safe to say that by the time this is all over, there will be moments when Tara certainly wishes they had had that conversation at some point.Is Dani actually happy with at least part of her life? Tara does admire Dani, praises what she does, and assumes Dani loves her. But did she ever ask if Dani was happy with her life and her job?
Agreed. In answer to your question, officially the hierarchy while Tara is gone would be Dani, Fredrek (still has 5 marks from being bound to the former Lord), Giles. That said, for any of them to “pull rank” would be seen as bad form. Dani and Fredrek’s ranks are similar enough that it would not be appropriate and Giles does not have the authority of the Lord/Lady but he is a free man and one with a fine reputation and authority on his own.If I were to guess, I think Dani is probably proud of what they have accomplished on Maclay East. But she's probably happiest in the library reading books or discussing with Giles grin (speaking of which, who will be in charge when Tara and co. go to the wedding?)
by grimlock72 » Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:55 pm
we seemed to have even greater communication powers. I could often feel what Dani was feeling or thinking simply by looking at her and while she would not admit it, it was obvious that she had the same ability.
Note: I expect this story will have 7-10 total updates.
by JustSkipIt » Mon May 07, 2007 7:09 pm
That’s a really interesting observation. I’ve never thought of it quite that way but I have definitely taken advantage of writing it from my stance of knowing what is going to happen/has happened as I am writing. So in a way, I’m there too.It's interesting re-reading this story now we know some of what's going to happen. Which is sort of the way Tara herself is telling it.
An excellent question. I’d say it’s gone where so much has gone: Tara’s no longer able to discern reality from her wishes.Look what I found in chapter 3:
Quote:
we seemed to have even greater communication powers. I could often feel what Dani was feeling or thinking simply by looking at her and while she would not admit it, it was obvious that she had the same ability.
Now where did that ability go I wonder??
God! Isn’t that the truth? It’s been a monster but a thoroughly enjoyable one.Oh yeah, this part of the story-header on chapter 1 was funny:
Quote:
Note: I expect this story will have 7-10 total updates.
Really Deb, how did EVER expect to stay within 10 updates, even though you post HUGE chapters? Story got away from you ?? derr
by WolfDragonGod » Mon May 07, 2007 7:48 pm
by JustSkipIt » Wed May 09, 2007 5:47 pm
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by Second Fig » Wed May 09, 2007 6:07 pm
by CSpotGo » Wed May 09, 2007 7:25 pm
by WolfDragonGod » Wed May 09, 2007 9:43 pm
by db » Wed May 09, 2007 9:48 pm
by dlline » Fri May 11, 2007 6:21 am
Their strength was no more than a glass or two of wine but the focus was directed solely at relaxing my anxiety and in this purpose, they stood me well.
Master Angel seemed to remove all sunlight and joy from his surroundings.
He was, without a doubt, the most morose and broody man I’ve ever met.
She would be without defense against the magic.
And then her lips were upon mine and her arms were around me and she had pulled herself from her horse to mine and I realized this is going to be much harder than I planned.
by watty » Sat May 12, 2007 12:41 am
in the midst of admitting to myself how wrong my actions had been, in the midst of casting about for away to gain her forgiveness, I still craved her. I still loved her, wanted her with every fiber of my being in spite of my mind telling me that no relationship with her would ever be possible.
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