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Waiting for Dani - Complete 06/11/07

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Re: Waiting for Dani

Postby watty » Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:38 am

There is so much to say about this chapter, your usual high standard of writing, detailed descriptions of events and plenty of thought-provoking scenes. Probably the most important is the sweet intimacy they shared in the bedroom. I was gonna say finally but I still have lingering doubts about whether their relationship can ever be equal.

Having said that, I don't have a problem with the sexual situation. I said it was abusive before, and to a certain extent it is. But not all relationships are equal -- sometimes one partner earns more, one love the other more, sometimes one party has control over the other. I think they are moving towards some sort of equality but only in the privacy of their bedroom. However they behave outside -- and you showed us twice how they have to get back to the realities of estate life as soon as they wake up -- it's different from how they are together alone. Dani still hasn't said those magic words, I'm not sure she'll be able to say them to Tara, woman to woman, until their power imbalance is addressed. In the meantime she is telling Tara through her actions, and how their lovemaking wasn't of "Mistress" taking liberties from "Possession."

I, too, loved how Willow said “Tell me, Tara.” Because it was said from her heart, not from her position as Tara's servant. Yes, she went back to calling Tara "My Lady" but I sense a reverence in that tone. In addition, I was completely blown away by your usage of two of the simplest words in the English language:
I… we…

it shows the respect Tara has for their connection and love, how core deep it touched her. Just two words, and I could feel the emotions off the screen.

Wow, they were busy during the daytime. So much business conducted. I was quite moved by D'rs' release, someone who served the estate for so many years being afforded so much dignity. Kudos to the Maclays. Very interesting, the competitions; Dawn is a runner again -- you like her as a runner don't you. Certain people seem to be pairing up too. Lots to look forward to.
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Re: Waiting for Dani

Postby grimlock72 » Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:44 pm

The description of all the festivities shows how much preparation such an event would take. It also again shows the MaClays are kind to 'their' citizens.

Debra wrote:I am not even vaguely comfortable with the power imbalance inherent in the relationship as depicted in this fic. However, I must admit that this activity is truly one of the central events of the story.


What do you mean by 'acitivity' in that line, sex ? My/the problem is not so much with the power imbalance, but Dani's inability to protest (that is what we're told the binding does, we don't know for sure that it DOES do that though). So we have a servant (Dani) of whom we don't know what she thinks or really wants, nor can she activly voice what she wants or what she does NOT want. Unless we learn that a servant can actually voice some protest even when bound, that situation is not-resolvable at the moment. Compounding problem is that Dani very much wants to be a proper servant so might say/do things she doesn't mean/believe in.

It's rather worrying that Tara doesn't seem to think much about that. Then again she's fairly young, but surely she should have been taught this (and the dangers of falling in one-sided love with your servant). Maybe all the master/mistress people in Debra-verse are nice and well behaved people with the best intentions for their servants .

It's interesting that we know as little of what Dani thinks as Tara does. Yet most readers here seem far more concerned about that than Tara herself is

Talking with D'rs might be enlightening, for both Tara and Dani (preferably seperatly). As a freed servant she would know what one can or can not do when bound. Come to think of it, that wouldn't be so very interesting for Dani ('cos she knows that already from experience) but more for us readers which are interested in Dani's welfare.

Tara does honestly believe she loves Dani and Dani loves her. The latter simply can not be confirmed in the current situation. That is also why it was sad to read Tara thinking "Wholly open to each other" which the can't be, due to the binding thing. Again this is what we're told about the binding, doesn't make it fact.

Your barb about Forrest was fun and Xander has a nice/normal loving father, that certainly is verrry rare . Anne and Master Finn would indeed work well together, provided no white-peroxided leather coated thing interferes

P.S. Small typo: "in spite of the fact that at most of", remove 'at' probably .
Last edited by grimlock72 on Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Waiting for Dani

Postby dlline » Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:48 pm

Deb, Deb, Deb.... (heavy sigh)

Great update. I wish I could say that I felt better about the way things were going for our lovely heroines, but I still can't. I know folks are looking hard for the happy ending here, but I'm still struggling with that nasty itch between my shoulder blades. This line was the worst.

And I kissed her again and told her that of course it happened. That she was my girl.


Regardless of the fact that Dani actually used the words "Tell me, Tara," it still feels, right to the bone, that it was servant to master, and the servant knew exactly the right words to use to tell the master exactly what she wanted to hear. It all still feels manipulative and slightly stilted. So I continue to twist, reaching for the nagging itch that I just can't get to.

The rest of the update is great. I know exactly what goes on regarding the business and social dealings of the Maclay clan, as well as their landholders, and your descriptions continually feed the movie that runs in my head as I read. I do really like the way you use canon characters, especially Buffy as the vacuous little sister. I never liked her much anyway, so much so that when I attempted to include her in my own work, she proved to be totally irrelevant, so I deleted her. Take that!

Keep up the good work and send me a back scratcher for the next update (If I continue to need one; that is up to you).

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Re: Waiting for Dani

Postby Auriam » Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:58 pm

new update wooo and hoooo !

you are right the translation of the flower is "Lefleur" indeed ! ;-)

this update great has every other ones !

Tara is very good to write stories in this chap she gives us a lot of description of the day. And she makes us wait like crazy !

We all know there are something will soon coming, something that make Dani go.

And she makes us wait ! ! ! !

In other words you are very good ! ;-)


my favourite part of this chap

The last time that she… How does one say this? When she cried out my name over and over and I rose up her body again, kissing a trail until I reached her lips and cheeks and eyes.


I think is really cute ! ! !
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Re: Waiting for Dani

Postby Artemis » Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:06 am

Okay, this has nothing to do with the story, but when you were musing on the various Buffy characters missing names, it reminded me of one of my favourite Futurama scenes, where the gang's watching Leela on TV and they say her first name Turanga -
Fry: "Turanga?"
Amy: "That's her name, Philip."
Bender: "Philip?"
I imagined the Scooby Gang going through the same thing, and... anyway, on to the actual story that's the whole point of this thread :blush

As usual, I'm just hanging on for the ride - I feel like I could re-read this a dozen times and still not have figured out all the layers (but there's no time - the down side of following all the stories I'm putting on Looking-glass, but I guess I can't complain, it's worth it). But two things stood out to me - one because of a comment you made in replying to feedback, which just made something I hadn't thought about crystallise: Dani/Willow can't leave Tara, yet in the present, Tara's waiting, and unsure if she'll return. So Dani leaving must have been by way of Tara letting her decide to - or, I wonder, did she even make Dani leave, to somehow free her from the bonds she's subject to, even though she may not have wanted to?

The other thing was a bit strange... All through this Tara and Dani/Willow have been 'my Lady' and 'my girl'. It started out sweet, but as things have gone on, it's become touched by the general creepiness and ookiness of what that means to them, that their relationship is uneven, and slowly spiralling downward so long as it stays the way it is, despite both their best efforts. But I was wondering, when they're reunited, will it be wholly as equals, with no-one being anyone's girl/Lady? Or will they, without compromising their new, equal relationship, still be able to be 'my Lady' and 'my girl' (not in a hierarchical social sense, just as an, I dunno, a 'thing' between them), and salvage that sweetness from the mess that society made it turn into? I'm really not sure one way or the other, but I'm curious to find out.
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Re: Waiting for Dani

Postby JustSkipIt » Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:09 pm

Susan – Hey there. Yep, you got dibs. Got more comments???

Morningstar – Thanks so much. Yes, there is a lot of background and kind of general, “what goes on that we think is all normal…” here. Thanks so much and yes, angst is coming.

tazraven – I agree that this chapter has a very different feel.
For one, I really feel like Dani loves Tara, really not much doubt about that I think. I was a little unsure about that in earlier chapters, but this one seemed... more equal somehow.
I don’t disagree with you at this point. And yes, there were some truly lovely times in their private space.

I can totally get how you like Dani asking Tara to repeat how much she loves her as sweet. Definitely sweet.

That line held such innocence. I love how they are both so concious of the other. Makes me smile =).
I’m glad. I like the idea too.

Thanks.

And then the editing…
Edited to Include: Crap. I read ana.log.ue's feedback and now I just have to say oops. I still stick by my that is so sweetness, but now I'm also got that the apocolypse is coming feeling. The comments made me realize that that scene could have been taken two ways. Gues I was just too caught up in taking the love from it that I forgot about the other part. Damn. Just when I was all with the happiness...
Lol. Yes, there are definitely a few ways to view that scene and those are two of the choices. I’m not saying that yours isn’t a valid view of the scene and it’s sweetness… We’ll see how history bears it out.

Thanks.

db
And so it is revealed -- this finally knowing that Dani wants this -- that she is there with Tara and can call her by name and ask for what she needs is wow, such a huge step!
I agree that it’s a huge step and that it’s a nice way to read the update. I’m just not 100% sure that it’s irrefutable that Dani wants this… We’ll see.

I’m very interested in the multiple interpretations of Tara calling Dani her girl. On one hand, it could totally a term of endearment or it could be a constant and unconscious reminder of Dani’s position as Tara’s possession. I think that the squeamish and the sweetish interpretations are equally valid at this point.

I’m glad you were intrigued by the discussion of the servant bonding and the Lefleur comment. Thanks. So much.

ana.log.ue – I don’t think you’re a cynical pessimist and quite honestly, I was happy to read your comments.
your writing is just so frustratingly ambiguous!
I can totally see that and I will actually take some credit for that. I intend it to be ambiguous in a way. Think of this: Tara is telling this story in hindsight. She wants to lay out the story basically as it happened but she doesn’t want to fail to be truthful either. She is looking now back on events as they happened at the time but she is thinking of them in her “now.” So she is being somewhat ambiguous to bring the reader up to her level (or down).
… and I'm just like, "but, but, Dani's crying... and reverting to calling Tara 'My Lady'... and her saying she didn't know if this would happen? could easily be not of the good!.. and if it is in fact not of the good, then Tara saying that duh, of course it happened, after all Dani is her girl, is just terrible..."
Absolutely! That’s a fantastic and valid way to read that scene. I’m amazed that you’re the first person to question Dani crying. I mean is she crying tears of happiness or sadness?

… I wanna believe in hugs and puppies and free will, but the evidence for that is insufficient. or rather an equally strong case can be made for either side.
Absolutely! Thanks for your fantastic comments.

Dianneswillowtree – Hello there. Yes, the story is going to be painful. I’m absolutely in agreement with you on that. I think your interpretation of why Dani was crying is a reasonable one. And yes, it’s perfectly acceptable to believe that Dani loves Tara and yes, there is angst on the horizon.

Thanks.

Julia – Thanks. I totally get what you mean about it being an almost equal moment. Agreed.
Quote:
“Yes, My Lady.”

Aaaarggg there is this Lady/Servant relationship aain, even after lovemaking... but was it lovemaking? I mean I know they love each other but with this unequality between them... i don't know it's really strange. It make me a little sad when I should be glad... I think it's what you want us to feel isn't it?
I think that’s a pretty accurate view of the entire thing. And yes, I want you to be conflicted about it. I am quite conflicted about it so I would expect the same of you.

Quote:
And I kissed her again and told her that of course it happened. That she was my girl.

This sentence killed me!!
Yes. It’s quite tragic and can be taken in a few ways.

I agree that the second time they make love is more “everyday.” It’s as if they’ve moved into being a couple who makes love and discusses the day rather than everything being crucial.

Thanks so much for your comments.

WolfDragonGod – Ha ha. He’s just impressed with her mind. Yes.

ringwaldoeuvre – Hello and welcome. General thoughts and not specific passages – check.

I agree that the first-person perspective really emphasizes Tara’s naiveté. She seems oblivious to what it means that Dani is her servant as well as the wishes of her close family and friends. She even seems completely ignorant of the connection between the Lefleurs and Dani although countless readers saw it instantly from her narration.
Most of her character development is expressed through this first-person perspective, which I think is very finely done. It's subtle, in the sense that a short passage can say a lot about Tara even if the scene is not about her.
Thank you for the compliment. I sometimes wonder if this narration says [i]too little[/b] about Tara. I feel pretty sure that the sequel will have a different point of view and I wonder how that will change the readers’s perceptions of her.

I totally agree that the power balance issue is troubling. I would consider it the major conflict of this story. Your guesses are very good ones as to what will bring about the climax here.
The sexual ethics question is tricky, partly because it is told from Tara's first-person perspective. We miss the substance of Dani's thoughts and feelings, and only know the things she says/does with Tara. It almost seems like Dani wants Tara to love her despite the power balance, and she considers herself lucky that she was able to serve someone that she loves. Yet it is unclear if she really wanted to be mark-bound to Tara for the social reasons, or if it is because she thought it was the only way to stay close to Tara, and it is something she truly wants or, more disturbing, thinks she wants.
Very well put. We, of course, all feel that Dani loves Tara and this being the Kitten Board, we’re convinced of it partly on principal. But it’s all very questionable. What if Dani doesn’t in fact love Tara and she is only attempting to please her mistress. Worse yet, what if she is unable to resist Tara even sexually? That’s quite distasteful IMHO.

Now I’m going to quote this entire and quite brilliant:
I am forced to say that I don't think the ignorance or benign intentions on Tara's part justify the relationship. Sure, she doesn't mean to objectify Dani, but even innocent objectifications can have damaging ramifications. It is troubling to know that Dani could be coerced body and soul to submit to Tara. It is troubling that even if Dani recognizes the problem and wants to resist, she could not, but perhaps more troubling is the fact that Tara seems so unaware of the issue that she would not identify Dani's attempt to resist - not because of any legitimate change of heart, but because Dani is emotionally and physically unable to resist, and could not express this emotion. Even if both of them want each other, the fact that their relationship could revert to such an awful place is intrinsically disturbing.
I’m not sure how well I can elaborate on that given that you’ve hit the nail so soundly on the head. If Dani is completely unable to resist, can they possible have a relationship? And Tara’s ignorance of the issue is particularly troubling.

Again you ask very good questions regarding whether they can possibly have an equal relationship given this as a starting point. What, in fact, would be the most equal relationship they could have? Tara’s position is high, very very high. Even if Dani were free or noble it is doubtful that she would equal Tara’s station. How near will be near enough or are they near enough now?

It is also a fascinating contrast to the series. Willow attempted to control Tara, body and soul. It was disturbing then, and the converse is disturbing now.
Darn tootin. I do think that one difference here is that Tara does not seem to genuinely understand how thoroughly she controls Dani whereas in the show, I feel that Willow only showed any remorse over getting caught. She didn’t have any contrition from a “gee, what I did violated her in the worst way. How could I do that?” space. Her contrition was from a “don’t leave me because I need you” place which is a totally different thing.

Thanks for your thoughts/comments on the tone. I am so grateful for your comments and hope to read more as the story continues. Thank you.

PS: I keep lol at your signature.

sacinema – So you didn’t like Anne Hathaway in DwP? I have to say that I’m unimpressed with her overall. It seems like she peaked with Princess Diaries and that’s about all she had to offer. I find her very white bread. You know?

I agree with your thoughts about this chapter being so solid and safe but it’s like the calm before the storm. I think you’re right on target there.

On one side I’m: “They did it” and how “They did it”. Very romantic, very touching and full of love. On the other side Tara calling Dani after the event “My girl” and Dani calling her “My Lady” in the aftermath gave me a bit of the creeps.
I think that’s with good reason. It’s quite a conflicting thing here: we have them fully in love (we think) but Dani’s kind of under Tara’s power so that doesn’t feel right.
I so don’t have a problem with mistress/servant-sex as long as no one (espacially the mistress) takes advantage of the other or of their position.
And my question is how would you know whether she is taking advantage?

I’m not sure that the entire society is based around having sex so much as they don’t have a lot of shame and judgment on it. The noble men are incredibly careful to not give away their magic by being celibate until marriage. And when at a party, they tend to live it up.

I’m glad you found the update “vibrant.” I’ll admit that I considered it much less so than the prior ones and more of a place-holder in a way. It was a very quick review of everything else that happens at this type of gathering. You know? But I’m glad it worked for you. And I think that people do discuss relationships. You can probably chalk Tara’s ignorance on Doris’s man friend to her own self-involvement. It’s not really her place to know the relationships of people on that level as it is Dani’s so it makes sense that she doesn’t know.

Thanks so much for your comments and wishes. Best to you too.

watty – Hey there. So what’s funny is that I got your e-mail referencing your feedback when I was at work so since I couldn’t get to KB at work it was like something to look forward to all day (I know either your feedback is great or my job was a little pathetic yesterday).

Yes, I would agree that the intimacy between them is the most important event of this chapter. I think that there are some other interesting things in this chapter or at least some that set up some events for later but the intimacy is the biggie of course.

Having said that, I don't have a problem with the sexual situation. I said it was abusive before, and to a certain extent it is.
Very interesting. You felt that the relationship was abusive and still do to an extent but you don’t mind it? I think that this question: is there anything wrong with their sexual relationship is the primary one of this set of feedback, this update, and possibly this story. I think that it’s incredibly complex and that there is no “right” answer about what is right.
Dani still hasn't said those magic words, I'm not sure she'll be able to say them to Tara, woman to woman, until their power imbalance is addressed. In the meantime she is telling Tara through her actions, and how their lovemaking wasn't of "Mistress" taking liberties from "Possession."
A great observation. My question is this: let’s say that you’re right that Dani can’t say “those words”, what do you think Tara thinks of that?

I’m very glad that the “Tell me, Tara” line came through with everything I was trying to communicate.
In addition, I was completely blown away by your usage of two of the simplest words in the English language:
Quote:
I… we…

it shows the respect Tara has for their connection and love, how core deep it touched her. Just two words, and I could feel the emotions off the screen.
Thank you. I am glad that it worked. The truth is that writing that part was somewhat hard because on one hand, it’s an incredibly romantic and beautiful event but on the other, as part of the story within the frame, Tara is somehow telling this story right? Well, how detailed would she be in that description? You know? I mean I’ve written some incredibly detailed scenes before but would Tara even tell this detail?

I guess I do think of Dawn as a runner. I could have made it Faith what with Tru Calling being her running show but she had all the riding/hunting competitions to win. Yes, there are some pairings on the horizon.

Thanks so much and have a great vacation.

grimlock72 – Yes, much preparation and expense for the celebration.

What do you mean by 'acitivity' in that line, sex ?
Yes. Absolutely that is what I’m not comfortable with (darn that Winston Churchill).

My/the problem is not so much with the power imbalance, but Dani's inability to protest (that is what we're told the binding does, we don't know for sure that it DOES do that though). So we have a servant (Dani) of whom we don't know what she thinks or really wants, nor can she activly voice what she wants or what she does NOT want. Unless we learn that a servant can actually voice some protest even when bound, that situation is not-resolvable at the moment. Compounding problem is that Dani very much wants to be a proper servant so might say/do things she doesn't mean/believe in.
I hope you don’t my laziness in just quoting your entire passage. You’re absolutely correct. Dani is unable to protest or resist Tara’s wishes and for that matter, she is pretty much bound by her own training to comply with her perceptions of Tara’s wishes. Even if Tara didn’t want sex, if Dani thought she did that would be enough to override her resistance (if she had any).

It's rather worrying that Tara doesn't seem to think much about that.
You’re so not kidding there. I keep asking myself if that’s even reasonable given what we know of her that she hasn’t thought about it yet. I think that we can blame her youth and her totally being totally madly blindly in love. So she hasn’t really thought through the implications of her feelings and actions. And of course, she’s already said that she believes that Dani loves her so she doesn’t think there’s anything wrong with it. I wish I could say that all the master/mistress people are nice but I doubt that’s actually true.

Yes, we know very little of Dani’s side… (evil Debra goes buh wah ha ha ha)

I’m a little Lol at the though of Tara talking with Doris for the purpose of informing the readers. Yes, that would be nice but a bit too… I don’t know. Spoon fed? Non evil? I’m smiling as I write this.
Tara does honestly believe she loves Dani and Dani loves her. The latter simply can not be confirmed in the current situation. That is also why it was sad to read Tara thinking "Wholly open to each other" which the can't be, due to the binding thing.
Oh yes. So perceptive to realize that Tara is kind of fooling herself by that perception. She believes in their love and their openness but it can’t be and she doesn’t understand that.

I’m so glad to have someone mention the Forrest barb. What a jerk (even before he was a machine). I can promise no Spike at all. Thanks for noting that typo. I’ve fixed it now.

Thanks, always.

Diane – Hi there. Diane has a new, very captivating story The Rosenberg Files. I won’t have another update for a week or two (and even if I did, I would still say) please head over there and read and send her some feedback.

Deb, Deb, Deb.... (heavy sigh)
Gee, I never hear that enough in a good way…

I think that your nasty itch is very well placed. I would ask a friend to scratch it or perhaps rub up against a nice strong tree. But here… it’s going to be a little while before I can fix it for you.

Regardless of the fact that Dani actually used the words "Tell me, Tara," it still feels, right to the bone, that it was servant to master, and the servant knew exactly the right words to use to tell the master exactly what she wanted to hear. It all still feels manipulative and slightly stilted.
I can’t say how incredibly thrilled I am with the width and breadth of feedback to this part. I would have to go tally it up (or perhaps Watty can make me a spreadsheet) to figure out whether more people feel like this was wove, twue wove (as the Apathetic Priest would say) or whether it was manipulative and kind of sick. And yes, that thrills me because I want it to be somewhat ambiguous. I hope that every reader has their (yes, I know it should be his/her but it’s so awkward) own opinion.

A movie in your head? Cool.

… especially Buffy as the vacuous little sister. I never liked her much anyway, so much so that when I attempted to include her in my own work, she proved to be totally irrelevant, so I deleted her. Take that!
Lol!

Thanks so much.

Auriam – Thanks. Ok, I would have been upset if I got the translation wrong but not upset enough that I actually went and looked it up or anything like that. Since I am not making it a big secret what Lefleur’s connection to Dani is, I will say that it’s a reference to D’Shel’s initial introduction as being from “the Estate of the Roses…”

Yes, Tara wants to include all the important events of the days and nights.

We all know there are something will soon coming, something that make Dani go.

And she makes us wait ! ! ! !

In other words you are very good ! wink
Thanks so much. It’s not actually that much farther. I think of it as 3-4 updates but they may bloat and be longer than that. I’m not 100% sure how long it will take.

Thanks so much.

Chris – I’ve never watched Futurama but that sounds great and hysterical.

Hanging on for the ride? I like it. I couldn’t imagine reading and keeping up with all the stories you host. I mean lots of them I read but all of them? That’s massive.
Dani/Willow can't leave Tara, yet in the present, Tara's waiting, and unsure if she'll return. So Dani leaving must have been by way of Tara letting her decide to - or, I wonder, did she even make Dani leave, to somehow free her from the bonds she's subject to, even though she may not have wanted to?
It’s good speculation although I guess it’s possible that Dani’s been taken. But no, Dani could not leave voluntarily.

Sweet  creepiness and ookiness for sure. My working title for this was My Girl but I felt that it was a bit… light? You know like you could open the file thinking that it’s going to be Willow musing in her journal about the great day she had with Tara and Tara’s sweet smile or something. I remember how blown away I was by the graphic you came up with for the story after just one update and was like, “wow. Chris is so darned perceptive.” I love the idea you have about salvaging the sweetness. We’ll see how that goes.

Thanks for your great comments and of course hosting.
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Re: Waiting for Dani

Postby PancakesinBellies » Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:46 pm

My inner fangirl is happy that they are finally together, but the rest of me is still a little iffy about the whole thing. While their coming together (*snicker*: the pun was unintended, but once I realized what I wrote it amused my inner Beavis) was sweetly done, the connection between their marks and the ritualization of the act (what with all the noblemen at the party leaving with servants, etc.) leaves me vaguely uncomfortable. I just...don't like it. That said, the update is very well-written, and I enjoyed seeing the emotional rapport between Tara/Dani grow.
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Re: Waiting for Dani

Postby Fin » Wed Feb 28, 2007 5:38 am

I'm sorry for not leaving feedback sooner, I have really been enjoying this tale, it is a such a colourful world you have created, love your imagination and descriptions, especially regarding the marks. I am intrigued how you will bring Willow and Tara together as equals so they can, as we say 'live happily ever after'. Look forward to the next update.
Cheers
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Re: Waiting for Dani

Postby idontlikejam » Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:31 am

hmm, just started reading this a few days ago and am really enjoying it.

I also feel like Tara's being willfully unperceptive, like there are a few times when I thought she might say something, like ask Willow/Dani if she minded being a servant her whole life and never having free choices but Tara never did.

The interesting thing about knowing Dani/Willow is going to leave is not knowing what triggers it because inevitably it will have to offer an insight into her thought processes which we've been denied so far.

I also honestly don't believe that WIllow/Dani is bound to Tara because of her own power with magic and noble standing, so that when she leaves she will not have to be released but will find she can go, i dunno, now i'm starting to doubt myself.

i did think it would be cool if Tara could be bound to Willow/Dani in the same way but the whole nature of binding is just a little wrong it appears, but then with Tara's magic and artist skill I'm srue she could figure out some marks/magic that didn't carry the same obligations as the current ones.

anyone.
update soon please! you're great.

Ellie
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Re: Waiting for Dani

Postby JustSkipIt » Sat Mar 03, 2007 5:52 pm

PancakesinBellies – Hey there. I totally get the contrast between “inner fangirl” and reasonable girl. I think your vague discomfort is more than justified for at least the reasons you cite. It’s very hard not to see the connection between the noblemen and their acts with various servants and Tara and Dani’s making love. Hard to decide what to think of it. Thanks for your thoughts on the writing.

Fin – No problem. I’m glad you’ve been reading even if you haven’t left fb. I love both (of course feedback more than not…). Thanks for your thoughts on the world. I believe it’s unique although it requires some amount of description, you know?

I am intrigued how you will bring Willow and Tara together as equals so they can, as we say 'live happily ever after'.
A darned good question…

Thanks.

idontlikejam – Ok. Your name. You really don’t like jam? Like strongly? Like at the level that I dislike Mustard and peaches? How can that be? I love jam, jelly, preserves, whatever. Not peach flavored of course but like any berry. Yum. I may go eat a peanut butter and jelly sandwich before posting my update just thinking about it…

Anyway, welcome. I am glad that you’re enjoying the story.
I also feel like Tara's being willfully unperceptive, like there are a few times when I thought she might say something, like ask Willow/Dani if she minded being a servant her whole life and never having free choices but Tara never did.
That’s a really fantastic term: “willfully unperceptive.” I absolutely love it and think that it perfectly describes Tara in a lot of ways. I think that there will be even more of those moments in the next update.

The interesting thing about knowing Dani/Willow is going to leave is not knowing what triggers it because inevitably it will have to offer an insight into her thought processes which we've been denied so far.
Well… yes and no. That’s the type of answer that I guess could make you a little crazy but I can’t really say more.

I also honestly don't believe that WIllow/Dani is bound to Tara because of her own power with magic and noble standing, so that when she leaves she will not have to be released but will find she can go, i dunno, now i'm starting to doubt myself.
I totally appreciate your belief in that and will tell you that it’s not so. Willow/Dani is absolutely bound to Tara in spite of her power and magic. Sorry…

Cool thought about Tara being equally bound. I will update very soon.

Also: your sig. Are you serious about the cup? My wife is like the world’s biggest evangelist about them. She tells like everyone what a wonderful invention it is.

Ok. Working on the update.

[center]Image[/center]


Story Title – Waiting for Dani

Chapter – 10 – I have no idea. Submit a good title for this chapter and I’ll use it and give you credit.

Author – JustSkipIt

Pairing – T/W

Feedback – Yes, please

Spoilers – None

Rating – R

Disclaimer – Joss Whedon and Mutant Enemy own Willow and Tara and the Buffyverse. I’m not saying this universe is totally original but I didn’t steal it from any author or creator that I know of. No copyright infringement is meant by this fic and I will not make any money from it.

Additional and permanent disclaimer – Yadda yadda. Yadda Yadda. Not comfortable. Power imbalance. Etc.



We were lovers then. Dani and I.

The guests all left the next day, early unless they had further business to attend to. While our celebration had been a grand success, it was widely acknowledged (although not mentioned) that our Estate needed some peace and privacy to recover from hosting such an event and our guests were gracious in leaving early to give us our recovery.

Our lives returned to “normal” immediately and we all resumed our duties or, in the case of myself and Dani, assumed new ones. Donnie returned to traveling on Estate business and was gone for periods of two to three weeks at a time even more so than before my marking. We missed him but he was making good connections on our behalf. He met many eligible noble women and told us of the fun he had dancing or riding with them but we could not detect a special interest in any but M’lissa and his descriptions of her were quite restrained as well. Although Faith occasionally attempted to tease him for his interest and intentions and me over whether I would vacate my title for his future wife, we simply teased her back but did not discuss the topic seriously. My brother, certainly, never broached the topic with me and I was quite happy to leave it so.

Having been released from her studies, Faith took over game stewardship of the entire Estate. Perhaps the appointment was a bit premature but she carried out her responsibilities very well and never disappointed us. She didn’t stray far although she and Dawn would camp overnight from time to time.

Anne was the only one of us children still in study with tutors. Melanie carried ambitions that she might become a Barrister. I can’t say that I shared her hope but it allowed Anne a higher level of education than she previously pursued. More importantly, it kept her from loitering about my rooms all day asking me what I thought of this dress or another or what I thought of Riley. Wasn’t he the smartest? The funniest? The strongest? The most manly man? I hadn’t noticed that he was particularly smart or funny and quite honestly, I had recently concluded that being a manly man would surely count at least two strikes against any potential mate.

I, of course, had eyes only for Dani. While I fully expected to have pressure at some point over my taking a high-born husband, I chose not to dwell on such concerns. I was in love and couldn’t be bothered with interruptions of the sort. Was in love? I am in love. And at the time I believed her to be equally enthralled with me. The words she never spoke--in fact to this day, has never uttered them. I could have questioned her. Asked if she loved me but she would have said yes or given some other sideways answer. Or… kissed my neck in that spot that she knew would weaken my knees and make me forget such inane doubts. So I quickly learned to avoid questions like that.

Lying awake in bed every once in a while I would convince myself that the true answer to that question could be found in actions rather than words. And her actions, once I initiated our intimacy, were always passionate, committed, and enthusiastic. She was never reserved, never reticent to love or be loved. Again I get ahead of myself in this tale for my doubts, my realizations come only later.

I mean to describe this next period of our life—a period when Dani and I were learning and settling into our relationship in every way. It was quite like I have always imagined the period after marriage would be. When possible many couples take a wedding trip for isolation and freedom from their cares and responsibilities. We took no such trip but the next half a year was very like I imagine that wedding trip would be. Our days were full with the business of the Estate and surrounding villages but our nights were full with each other. To others our relationship must have seemed a usual, if exceedingly close, bound relationship. Dani was absolutely indispensable to me in every way and I told her so constantly. And I don’t mean to imply that we worked all the time. We took many romantic breaks. Long rides became picnics and picnics became a private pleasure for us. We camped overnight, inventing small reasons or just because we felt like it. When I needed to stay in the village fulfilling my responsibilities, Dani was as likely as not to come with me and we um… initiated an array of beds in an array of taverns before returning to our Estate.

I began to have artistry commissions and T’dre was happy for the relief. She had long complained of pains in her hip when she rode long distances and she was glad to have an apprentice to perform some of her duties. That term, apprentice, we only used between ourselves. To others, I was a fully-educated, commissioned artist. But we knew that I still had much to learn from her and I continued to study with her and consult on every design I was to artist. Between my mark-taking and Anne and Faith’s six months hence, I performed four pairs of marks as well as a wedding binding and Doris’s (now called Ursula) freed-servant bond. For some of these trips Dani accompanied me and for others she did not. While I always wanted my girl with me, sometimes the needs of our Estate dictated that she stay at home while I traveled. Once Dawn traveled with me and once Delia.

I’ll say this for Delia. She made me appreciate Anne. If I thought Anne’s inane ramblings about Riley’s manly manliness irritating, Delia made me dizzy and slightly nauseous with her fixation on striking noble and non-noble men. If I never hear another word of who is well-built or who she bets “really knows his stuff…” that will be quite soon enough.

My payments from artisting I could do with what I chose as they were not expected to be returned to the Estate coffers. While it was necessary that I be paid for my work in order to further strengthen the bindings, we had no need for extra cash. I squandered what I could on gifts for those I loved, Dani being chief of course, or food for children I met in the villages. If I happened to return to the castle with coins in my purse, I handed them to Dani with instructions that I wanted no further mention of them.

Our social calendar, while not full, was more lively than it had been in the past. A few times we went to see a traveling performance in town even though the companies generally came to the Estate as well. And we were all invited to an increasing number of balls and gaming parties. There happened to be a great number of nobles our age within a half-day ride and most Estates were eager to show off their hosting skills as well as further social connections. These events were a very good opportunity for young nobles to organize, direct, and execute large gatherings in relatively low-pressure situations. The older generation was conspicuously absent, leaving greater freedom. I was nearly always the only five mark attendee and Dani the only five-mark servant. Sometimes we (Anne, Delia, Faith, Dawn, Donnie, Dale, myself, and Dani or any combination) spent the night at the gathering and others times we rode home, arriving in the dark of night or at daybreak.

So many nights we lay in bed as I praised Dani’s beauty and grace and let her know how I would have rather danced with her than any of my night’s partners and she agreed to the sentiment. And I put my words in writing, drawing pictures of my love or writing her tender poems and then stowing the scrolls in the pockets of her britches or the toes of her boots for her to find as she dressed. I loved to pretend I wasn’t watching her as she found the notes. Each time she got a slow smile as she found the scrap of paper, glanced at it and then hid it quickly in a pocket or concealed it in her hand. Feeling bold, I would slide a drawing of her as she had looked the night before (drawn from memory of course) under her wine goblet and watch the blush spread quickly across her cheeks as she snatched the note to stuff it into her lap. Not infrequently she looked for ways to cause a similar response in me and then leaned over to whisper in my ear. “Are you ok, My Lady?” or “Is it something you ate, My Lady?” The last always serving to make my cheeks burn an even brighter shade. It wasn’t that she failed to address me with proper respect. It was more as if she were alluding to our relationship in my chambers -- relationship in which I was hardly her Lady and she hardly my servant.

Which is not to say that we showed no respect to each other in private. My girl's bowing down to me, which formerly seemed so foreign, was now an inside joke between us. She would give me a sly grin and then whisper that she intended to bow down to me and sinking down to her knees, she would do just that. And our joke was far from one sided. I would tease that I wanted to return the habit or that to me she was my one and only Lady and I the servant of her wishes. And although she initially seemed uncomfortable with my attentions in just that position, she quickly discarded all protests as her hands would clutch at the back of my head or my shoulders and she would eventually cry out my name and quiver with pleasure.

For some while,I thought that Dani had taken up my habit of writing these love notes. I saw in her hand a quill and scroll and she would tuck it away when I came around the corner or from the necessary. And she was forever wiping her fingertips on the cloths we kept around for such a purpose. But no notes arrived and I was first curious and then amused and finally exasperated, thinking she was teasing me. I dropped hints and teased her in return and still no notes appeared in the toes of my new boots nor under my pillow at night. And the more I teased her the more uncomfortable she seemed until I almost wanted to ask her directly what was the meaning of her subterfuge.

After about two weeks of this, my youngest sister came to my rooms one day and requested an audience. I laughed at her formality but invited her in immediately and pointed to a chair. Rather she said that she preferred to stand and proceeded to pace. I had no idea where the conversation was going as she inexplicably referred to Dani’s position. “Your servant can not refuse you anything, Lady Tara.”

I was nothing if not the diplomat and had no wish for our secrets to be held by any but ourselves. “Yes, Faith. That is the meaning of a mark-bound servant. Yours will be bound as well in a few months.” I stepped toward my desk to idly flip through the papers there. “Did you come to remind me of the meaning of a mark-binding?”

Faith began to pace faster as she took a deep breath. “I have not meant to offend you. I … Dani is helping me with a project and … she says that … um… well… your questions make it harder and harder for her keep our project a secret.”

They had a secret project? “Dani knows as do you that she should have no secrets from her Mistress.” I instantly regretted my words. Even Anne would have detected my petty jealousy. And I was not dealing with Anne.

Faith stopped pacing and fixed me with a long look which I couldn’t identify. It could have been confusion or pity or even anger but she quickly retracted it and became impassive. She took a few steps and dropped to one knee in front of me before speaking. “You and your servant are a perfect match in every way.” She stood and shocked me as she gently ran her fingertip along my jaw. She again spoke haltingly. “I… Dani is a much greater writer than I.” She blew out through her nose and when she began to speak again actually blushed as I never knew my sister capable. “I don’t think that Master Stefan would be terribly impressed with my… pathetic notes.”

Only my love and respect for my sister kept me from laughing out loud. “Dani is helping you… write to Master Stefan? Finn?”

Faith pursed her lips. “Yes. Master Stefan Finn.” She began to pace again. “I know that he only has two marks but he’s… he’s not a stuffed shirt like his cousin or like most of the noble men. He … he genuinely enjoys riding, hunting, even dancing.” She looked at me imploringly. “And I think he genuinely likes me.”

I strode across the room and embraced her, kissing her cheeks. “How could he not, my babiest of baby sisters? I couldn’t care over his two marks and can’t see why you should either. He seems a kind and genuine man and his grandmother was a magic user … although…”

“Although?”

I smiled that Faith had taken my teasing. “You aren’t a complete ignoramus. I would think he would like a note from you rather than from Dani once in a while.”

Faith laughed. “She’s just augmenting my efforts.” She lightly punched me in the shoulder. “You should be easier on her with all your suspicions. She’s been hurting over keeping this from you.”

I stiffened at this repeated criticism of my behavior toward my girl. “Dani has been hurting because you enlisted her in your dishonesty rather than coming to me first.”

Faith bowed neatly. “I meant no disrespect, Lady Tara. I only meant to relieve your concerns.”

I shook my head, amazed at how I had lost my composure so easily. “You are right, Faith. Dani deserves more trust from me and I will endeavor to do so more readily in future.” I waved my hand toward the door, dismissing my sister who looked as if she wished to say something further but did not.

For a few minutes I stood in the center of my room attempting to understand the depth of my emotion. Jealousy like this, being unsure of my girl… It was far from acceptable and I simply had to take control of my emotions. I left word with D’elam that I would not be at dinner and easily slipped past the rest of the staff and family. I walked a long time in the gardens before coming to a spot which was one of my favorites for meditation and took a seat under the widest tree.

It was long gone dark when I felt Dani’s energy enter the space but she took a seat and began to meditate as well, not interrupting me. When I finally looked up at her I didn’t know what to say. “I brought your dinner to our rooms, My Lady.”

“Thank you, D’ni.” I reached out to take her hand and pulled myself up onto my knees and closer to her. My hand was shaking as I ran my fingertips through the ends of her hair. “I … I have no power over my emotions where you are concerned.”

Dani took my hand and gently kissed the palm. “What do you fear, Tara?”

I tried to look away but she held my chin steady. “I don’t know what I would do if … “ I felt exasperated at my inability to speak my truth. “I want to be your only… your always…”

She scrunched up her face slightly as if puzzling over my words. Then lifted my hand to her lips again. “You are My Lady.” She began to place feather-light kisses on my fingertips before moving to my palm and wrist. As I lay back, I pulled her with me and we stayed there in that garden for a long wonderful time. One of us cast a spell to let us know if anyone came close and we were not disturbed. Much later she teased, “If I had known you were so hungry, perhaps I would have brought your dinner to the garden.” She giggled and I joined her before fixing her with a playfully admonishing gaze.

“Your language! Do you eat with that mouth?” I feigned outrage as I placed my open hand over my heart in a gesture reminiscent of one T’solde often enacted when dealing with Dawn or Faith.

“Let me show you,” she answered, no less risqué and then …

It was quite late when we returned to my rooms to finally eat that dinner but the time in the garden was well spent indeed.

I would love to say that I continued to mediate on my emotions and that with Dani’s continued comfort, allaying my doubts daily (and nightly) I soon found this jealousy to be a thing of the past. And I could say that.

But it would not be true.

When we attended dances, I found myself on edge throughout for fear that a five-mark man would arrive and the rights he would have over my girl. And I couldn’t even directly admit to myself that the marks-rights would only help a man who wanted Dani in spite of her original inclination. If she saw someone she felt an interest in, noble or servant, free or bound, no marks-rights would have been necessary. I might turn my back to dance and turn back to her absence. I told myself that this would not happen and attempted to be more enlightened—that if it did happen, this would be ok. And Dani spent countless hours attempting to reassure me that she had no interest in such activities and that our passion was all she could ever imagine. But my girl was so beautiful, so elegant, my pride and joy. And there was no doubting that some noble man would see her and want her and… With his marks it would not matter what her interests might be. His wishes would be hers and my world would crash down around my shoulders.

The more I thought of these fears, the worse I slept. I woke in the night in a dead panic, casting my hands about for the warmth of my love’s sleeping body. And my love woke to hold me and pet my hair and whisper that she was mine and mine alone. But I never wanted to share her and I wanted that to be acceptable in our world.

After our Autumn harvest my fears increased and almost reached obsession proportions. Invitations to Anne and Faith’s celebration were not sent out so early as had been mine but this double-marking within a family so well respected as ours was still to be a grand event. I had assigned Anne responsibility of issuing invitations and tracking responses. She felt it necessary to run down the hall and knock at my doors with each and every affirmative which was as irritating as most of her visits but at least it gave me an ongoing report on the celebration. By early December we knew that the Finn Estate would be attending in their grand splendor as well as the LeFleur and Martin estates. The LeFleurs would be bringing their three sons (one marked as of yet) who had stayed at home with various excuses this summer and the Finns no doubt would turn out official dog-washers and shoe polishers for the chance to show off Riley’s prospects. Many of the more senior Lords and Ladies would be staying home, sending younger members of the Estate instead and it indicated even more strongly how well attended my celebration had been.

Still, the prospect of even four five-mark nobles (including my father and Lord Martin who my father claimed would never be a claimant) made me feel as if ice water flowed in my veins. Lord LeFleur had been quite impressed with my girl at the Chest tournament and Lord Finn was well known to enjoy company at gatherings such as these. In defiance of my rank, my mark, and my commitment to my artistry I wanted nothing more than to stand in front of my girl and pronounce her mine and not for anyone else to touch.

Futile fantasies aside, one particular response to the invitation brought me a glimmer of hope. Steward Giles sent by speed messenger a short note to Anne declining her invitation and a much longer letter to my father and I informing us of our grand cousin’s further declining health.

Less than two weeks before Anne and Faith were to take marks, I scheduled an interview with my father. Technically and strictly that request was not required as my rank equaled my father’s. Many would have openly admitted that my rank actually exceeded his given my magic but he was my father and I continued to afford him the respect he deserved in that role as well as being Lord of the Estate. Once we had completed our formalities of greeting and having a pot of tea and biscuits, we gave D’ni and D’rek their leave. We discussed the situation on Maclay East as we had determined to call the struggling Estate and the prospects. My father expressed concern but stated that he had not come up with a plan for the reformation of the Estate at the present. When I proposed personally moving to that Estate and bringing it up to our standards, he masked his surprise but sat quietly for a good ten minutes. I knew my father well enough to know that he was a man who would rather sit and think than speak prematurely and that he was evaluating the suggestion from every angle.

He stood and paced for a few additional minutes before returning to the table. When he spoke he did so very carefully and slowly. “You would leave your home and family and attempt to reform this other Estate?”

“Yes, My Lord.”

“For how long? When would you return?”

“At your will, Lord.”

He stood again and nodded as he thought of this. “It is quite a commitment you propose, Lady Tara. This project could take two to three summers at least, perhaps as long as five or ten. You will miss out on much fun and gaiety as it is quite far from most of our fine neighbors. Society in that area is quite sparse.”

I had certainly thought of this possibility. Quite obviously, this societal isolation was, if not my chief reason, one of my major purposes in the proposal. “I would be willing to make that sacrifice for the sake of our overall Estate, My Lord.”

He nodded a few times. “Let us discuss this further then.”

And discuss we did. Hours passed as D’rek and D’ni brought us a mid-morning snack, then our noon meal, and then joined us in our planning and discussions. It was nearly dinner time when my father declared that we all needed some recreation. We went riding then, with much of our plan in place.

Dani and I would leave, taking with us a small portion of the Estate staff, within a week of the coming mark-binding celebration. Anne bemoaned our leaving both because she would miss us and because she claimed that her “heart literally hurts, literally” for us to miss out on such grand society. Maclay East was, as both father and Anne pointed out, quite isolated from society. I wanted to dance on the tables each time someone mentioned how many balls and parties we would miss out on. I found myself smiling and humming to myself as I roamed the castle for the next week thinking of the freedom I would feel once myself and, more importantly, my girl were away from potential mates.
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Re: Waiting for Dani

Postby tazraven » Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:12 pm

Oooh! Do I get dibs? I get dibs! Be back soon with feedback...

Ok, just finished. Debra, your writing amazes me. First off, I guess would be the title suggestion. I suggest "Denial and Avoidance". Seems fitting to me, considering Tara's emotions in this chapter.


Was in love? I am in love. And at the time I believed her to be equally enthralled with me.



That really worried me. I was pretty sure Dani loved Tara, regardless of her inability to refuse Tara of anything, but this. This made me nervous. Not only did Tara confuse her own feelings, but she talked about Dani's as if they were not reciprocated. You do such a great job of keeping me on edge. I feel comfortable one minute, and then it slips away in the next.


The words she never spoke--in fact to this day, has never uttered them. I could have questioned her. Asked if she loved me but she would have said yes or given some other sideways answer.



I wonder if this is Dani's attempt at a rebelious nature. Like I said about the above quote, it makes me wonder if Dani actually loves Tara. If she does, wouldn't she have spoken those words of her own accord? It seems like she would have. Especially if Tara had ever asked her. She would have been able to answer in her own way, but instead would almost distract her with a roundabout answer or a loving gesture.

Denial is such a big part of this chapter, as evidenced by this quote.


Lying awake in bed every once in a while I would convince myself that the true answer to that question could be found in actions rather than words.



Tara continues to dance around the issue, convincing herself that love can be seen purely in gestures and physical acts. But it really can't. Yes, the physicallity of love is a very large part of any relationship, but assurance is as well. In my opinion, it is impossible to have an equal and loving relationship if one member of the partnership never verbally reciprocates the feelings.


Again I get ahead of myself in this tale for my doubts, my realizations come only later.



And once again with the nervousness. You have at least a couple of these 'I should have known' statements thrown into this chapter, and it makes my stomach all acid-y.


“Your servant can not refuse you anything, Lady Tara.”

I was nothing if not the diplomat and had no wish for our secrets to be held by any but ourselves.



Ok, I can honestly say I was really scared for a moment. Did Dani tell someone? Did someone finally find out? No, they didn't, and I do wonder when those events will happen. But I found it interesting that as soon as Faith said that, Tara immediately jumped to the private activities Dani and Tara shared at night. That makes me think that maybe Tara did realize that Dani could not deny her, even if she wanted to. Does Tara think what she's doing is wrong? Does she understand that maybe Dani does not feel the same way? Sometimes I think she does when she wonders why Dani does not verbally reciprocate her feelings, but then I think she doesn't. If she really did believe that this was wrong and that Dani didn't love her, then wouldn't she want to no? Her denial is killing me.


“What do you fear, Tara?”

I tried to look away but she held my chin steady. “I don’t know what I would do if … “ I felt exasperated at my inability to speak my truth. “I want to be your only… your always…”

She scrunched up her face slightly as if puzzling over my words. Then lifted my hand to her lips again. “You are My Lady.”



The changing names that Dani bestows upon Tara are really starting to get to me. When she calls her by the name Tara I feel a glimmer of hope, like anything she says while calling her that seems more real almost. But then in the next sentence she can go back to calling her My Lady, and I feel then like anything said is an automatic response. Maybe that's an idication of how Dani herself is feeling. Maybe if she actually believes in what she's talking about, Tara's name makes an appearance. If she doesn't, she reverts back to her title.


Maclay East was, as both father and Anne pointed out, quite isolated from society. I wanted to dance on the tables each time someone mentioned how many balls and parties we would miss out on. I found myself smiling and humming to myself as I roamed the castle for the next week thinking of the freedom I would feel once myself and, more importantly, my girl were away from potential mates.



And now for the avoidance part of our program. Tara is bothering me. This is nothing against your writing, as I love every word. You just write her so well. Not only is Tara in distinct denial about Dani's feelings towards her and whether or not they are the same as her own, but she's willing to move away from her family and friends just so she can keep Dani away from potential suitors. But I think what's even worse than her avoidance is her mistrust of Dani. Earlier in the chapter, Dani over and over reassured Tara that she did not want to be with anyone else. But Tara does not seem to believe her. She goes so far as to remove them from their home, just to make sure nothing like that could ever happen. I feel like maybe Tara is even more afraid that Dani would like someone, even more than she is going to be subjected to Mark rights.


Alright, that's all I have for now, and it seems to be pretty long, at least for me. Once again, absolutely amazing. You make my heart hurt for these characters. I become more intrigued with this story with every chapter. Wow.

~Sara
How far will she go to save her life?

Find out in Speak Easy
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Re: Waiting for Dani

Postby tarawhipped » Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:12 pm

Hiya, Debra! I've been remiss in leaving feedback, but dammit there's just so much going on that it makes my brain hurt, and can't think of much other than "oog...good fic...want more...oog." But I caught something here that made me go back and do some digging, and while I know I'll be painfully off the mark if I try to figure out what you've concocted, it was enough to make me look on the bright side. Bear with me...

Exhibit A: From the very first chapter, when Tara is sitting in the chair a la NMR:
Everything is in question. And that I, being who I am, is sitting in this state is against everything I’ve known. Against my family and breeding and what is so in this world. Maclays don’t sit in the darkness waiting for their destiny to come to them. Maclays go after their destiny. Hunt it down. Own their destiny. For always and ever. But not this Maclay and not this day.
What's she doing? Why, she's Waiting For Dani, natch...but if it's anything like NMA, it's because she knows it's Dani who needs to make a choice.

But from everything that comes after, we know Dani isn't large with the free will (Ha! pun) what with the mark-bonding. However, if you skip ahead to part 9 (or thereabouts), we meet...

Exhibit B: Desiderata, who was freed from her bond after Tara's mother died. Since Tara ain't dead, that's not gonna work for Dani, and who'd want it to? Even though Desiderata has a lovely "companion" rather than a manly man to go party-hopping at bondage---err---bonding parties with. Which leads me to...

Exhibit C: Doris. Sweet, kind old Doris---or should I say Ursula! Hmm...so they're freed from the bonding and they take another name. Interesting. Hmm...now who in this story is going by a name that doesn't quite fit? :smug And how does Doris gain her freedom? By asking for it at the proper ceremony. Which of course made me wonder about Tara's "not this day." Donnie or Faith or Buffy's wedding, perhaps? Would that qualify?

Personally, I hope it's Tara who gives Dani her freedom...that whole "if you love something, set it free" deal. It's a given that Dani will come back (with a brand spankin' new "free" name), but considering everything you've said about the power imbalance, it would mean so much more if Tara finally realizes she needs to do something about it before they can ever be together like Desiderata and Phoebe.

So basically, I have no idea what you've got up your sleeve, Debra, but I for one am feeling much more hopeful...even if there is heaping buckets of jealousy and angst ahead before the roses (pun? I think emphatically possible) and rainbows. Can't wait to see how you get there.

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Re: Waiting for Dani

Postby dlline » Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:41 pm

Great update. I’ve just returned from a visit to a really stout tree where I was attempting to reach that nagging itch. I must say this update helped to ease my itchiness. Unfortunately, itch has turned to outright dread at what might be coming for the girls.

“And at the time I believed her to be equally enthralled with me. The words she never spoke--in fact to this day, has never uttered them. I could have questioned her. Asked if she loved me but she would have said yes or given some other sideways answer. Or… kissed my neck in that spot that she knew would weaken my knees and make me forget such inane doubts. So I quickly learned to avoid questions like that.”


I’m detecting a small whiff of awareness from Tara that I haven’t gotten before. At least she seems to be developing some small semblance of awareness of the power imbalance at work in their relationship. But, wait a minute!

“It was more as if she were alluding to our relationship in my chambers -- relationship in which I was hardly her Lady and she hardly my servant.”


So says you! Maybe not so aware. I just don’t know. I do know that Tara’s escalating jealousy and mistrust of Dani can’t be good. I hate to see anyone bitten in the ass by that ol’ green-eyed monster, because it usually proves to be their undoing. Once again, I find myself wondering how you are going to dig your way out of the mess that Tara is making. I really want to smack her soundly on the back of her beautiful head, but she’d probably just stare at me and say, “WTF was that for?” Well, she’d say it much more eloquently than that, but you get what I mean, right?

Anyway, so here I sit, confused, worried, and a little riled up. I’ll just wait…it seems to be my only option. Thanks.

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Re: Waiting for Dani

Postby morningstar » Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:49 pm

update!

so like the others said Tara's musings in the present were very unsettling which just keeps us on the egdes of our seats.

what got me the most is Tara is moving them to another estate. ok but it is not mentioned that Dani is even asked if she would like to move...

not that she could answer what tara didnt want her to answer?

but still Dani has grown up there and maybe she doesnt want to go away but Tara never gave her that decision.

I especially liked the tension that Faith provided. I totaly fell into the thought that Faith was confronting Tara about her and Dani's extra close relationship. but i guess that is something we will have to wait for.

and now that i have lefft feedback to your story i am way to sleepy to read another word

good night :sleepy

Edit: Now that i am awake and remmebered the Faith and Riley part :rofl i like the Faith is stealing Buffy's man again senario :) and sending him love notes via Dani's writing skills!
Last edited by morningstar on Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Waiting for Dani

Postby db » Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:30 pm

So, yeah. They are lovers now...

I have gone from elated back to despair. :aww

Tara spends so much time pondering marks rights being taken with Dani and Dani's inability to refuse and yet she doesn't realize that this applies to her relationship as well?!

Oy! Dani has not, or cannot, or will not or just plain doesn't belive that she can say the words "i love you" to Tara. How can that not be telling? How can they play with the idea of lady and servant and Tara still not understand that this dynamic is... meh?!

I get that Tara is in love and that love makes you blind... but she is also consumed with jealousy and sadness at this divide. It is really begining to grate that Tara still does not fully see the lack of free will... still I am beginning to see a flicker of understanding. Tara knows that her emotions around Dani are out of control and that her lack of trust is of the ungood. She's not there yet -- but I am thinking this is the beginning of the beginning

One thing that really pleases me is the role Faith plays in your story. Ya know, I think Faith gets it. I think she knows that Tara and Dani are in love or at least suspects it... and I like how you have Faith step in and remind Tara of what is right every once in a while -- but she never says it out loud. What's that about? Can Dani confide in Faith? I hope she can; I hope Dani has *someone* . I wish Faith would just spell it out for Tara - she clearly needs it.

I wish Tara had someone she could confide in -- someone who could or would give her good relationship advise. Unfortunately, in her position and with her rank, it is hardly possible for her to reveal the nature of her feelings toward her servant. Ultimately I think the journey will be hardest on Tara, even though Dani is in the lesser position at the moment, Tara has so much more to lose.

And now they are going away -- Tara is sequestering them away so that Dani won't have other mates and hey, I get that she doesn't want Dani to be with someone else -- but she *should* get that it is/should be her choice!

I want to believe that there is a preferance there; that Dani *does* chose Tara... but she doesn't, does she? She can't, really. It breaks my heart.

So yeah, back in despairville :aww ... and loving every minute of it.

more more more more more!

db

(edited 'cause I had more to say)
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Re: Waiting for Dani

Postby Willowtree252 » Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:23 am

:pinky All the wonderful feed back say's it all but the only thing I am going to say is that I a bracing myself for what I fear to come. :kitty
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Re: Waiting for Dani

Postby ringwaldoeuvre » Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:59 pm

Much of what has happened only amplifies my previous concerns. The move to have Tara and Dani move to another estate and away from society only postpones the inevitable problem that there will be something that comes between them. While it might be easy to say that Tara has "grown" from this realization, she has only done so because it was a threat to something that is hers - Dani. She is not nearly so self-aware to say that she needs to do something to preserve the long-term relationship with Dani. Additionally, her entire concern is centered around the effect of such an event on her - not Dani. If a noble took his rights with Dani, she seems more concerned with what that means to her, not Dani. Yet a noble could not impose himself on her, and make her do something that she does not want to do. The same cannot be said for Dani.

This makes me want to expand on my first-person perspective comments. Not only is the reader limited to what Dani says/does, but we are told her words and actions through Tara. Not only are we unaware of her actual feelings, we actually have no clue if her actions and words have any relevance to her feelings. It's hard to know what's actually going on, which is clearly intentional, in the sense that we can't trust what's presented.

I am as optimistic as the next W/T fan that they will find a perfect love, which is perhaps part of the problem. The reader - in this case, probably someone that yearns to see W/T together - is inclined to think that "of course" Dani loves Tara, because that's just how it should be. Yet given the inequality, I don't think we can take anything for granted. Just because something is hyped up does not mean it should be assumed to be correct. Let's face it, there was weird power balance stuff going on with W/T on the show, despite the fact that we all wanted them to be together.

Still, it was interesting to see Tara show a little bit of self-awareness during this chapter during her interlude with Faith. The romantic in me likes to see that they are together, but I cannot hold back my reservations over the power balance. I think that's one of ther great things you've done with this fic - made people think about the power imbalance with W/T. It's something that concerned me before, so much so that I am almost inclined to disapprove of the way they got back together on the show. I applaud this effort, and look forward to more.
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Re: Waiting for Dani

Postby ana.log.ue » Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:11 am

well, this chapter was more explicit about the power imbalance etc, so I don't feel the need to jump in and be all 'oh no, it's a lot worse than people think' again.

I'll just say that this is perphaps the second most challenging and thought-provoking piece of fiction I've ever read (the first being Ishmael by Daniel Quinn - and yes, I pimp that book everywhere I go), and certainly the most challenging piece of fanfiction. I had some very specific ideas about the feudal social structure, and you made me completely rethink them. I'd like to thank you for that. and the feedback you get is always so thoughtful too, it's really amazing.
and apparently you're making others rethink some of their ideas about the inevitability of w/t, and that's awesome too. (as much as I love them, fangirling is just silly. a lot of fanfiction seems to be just putting two characters in different situations and watching them get together over and over and over again, whether it makes sense or not.)
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Re: Waiting for Dani

Postby watty » Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:04 am

I keep saying their relationship is abusive, even though I know it's the wrong word (too strong), I shall continue to use it. Because this time, Tara has stepped over the line and abused the love and the trust in their relationship. We don't know if Dani was consulted about the two of them running away to hide in the remote estate, I'd say no because Tara is a) the Lady of the Estate so she makes the decisions; b) Dani's owner meaning it's impossible for Dani to say, feel or act in a way contrary to her decision and c) too bloody blinkered in her jealousy that she isn't thinking clearly. Reminds me of people who kill their spouses rather than let other people have them, or stalkers who kills their prey when the prey doesn't return their "love". May be I'm over-reacting, but this move of Tara's is a bad, bad, bad, bad, bad idea. And by the tone of the tale, Storyteller!Tara has regrets too.

Cam has me beat in listing her argument (when did she get so organized and listing things out in bullet points?) but it got me thinking of why Tara is currently waiting for Dani, why she has another servant, and why she's sitting there in the dark, and perhaps in some sort of exile? But I need to organize my thoughts more, and try to interpret more of the layers you're feeding us. Anyway, Tara's
I am in love.

and
my realizations come only later

and
I would convince myself that the true answer to that question could be found in actions rather than words

and
I felt exasperated at my inability to speak my truth. “I want to be your only… your always…”

You know what, I think that the current Tara, the one telling us this story, has finally learned that she has to work for love. That it isn't a one-way street, just because she says she loves Dani ... and just because Dani acts like she does, that it is the case. That's why relationship fail, because of miscommunication, because things get taken for granted. She passes love notes to Dani, does it automatically mean Dani writes her notes back? Man, it takes someone like Faith to tell her and clear that Dani-fog from her brain temporarily. I won't even start on her obsessive jealousy. Yes Tara, take Dani to someplace that no one can touch her, isolate her, hide her. How is that different from putting her in a prison where only you have the key?

I really am being harsh on Tara today, and I apologize. I know that you will bring them together, and I have faith that you won't do so lightly -- Tara in particular needs to "earn" Dani/Willow. On the flipside, Dani has indulged Tara -- yes she's mark-bound and all, but does it preclude her from telling Tara, may be just one time, of how she really feels? :hm may be I'm thinking too far ahead. This is probably the most thought-provoking work I've read. I haven't yet dreamed about it (like I did SAI) but I'm sure I will one day, it is that affecting.
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Re: Waiting for Dani

Postby JustSkipIt » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:23 pm

Here are some comments. Before I get to them, let me say this. Months ago I seriously considered pulling this story from this forum. From the Internet. I feel that it is my best writing and wondered if it was publication worthy (names changed to protect the innocent – me that is). But one of my major reasons for choosing to leave it here and continue in this format was that I really wanted the feedback. I wanted to be able to converse with readers and understand reactions to my world. To my characters.

You have not disappointed! I value every bit of feedback, every criticism, every praise, every hard question, and reader puzzling out a solution. It is exhilarating to get to read the feedback and respond.

For that I say thank you.


tazraven – Hey there. Yep, dibs to you. Hmmm. Thanks for the title suggestion. I’m not sure that it totally works simply because the story and title are told from Tara’s point of view. While I appreciate that all of us can see the level of both denial and avoidance she is engaging in, I don’t think that she sees it at all. You know? But still… a cookie to you for being the only reader to offer a title so far.

I’m glad to hear that you’re feeling both frustrated with Tara and uncomfortable. I think that you’re right and that Tara doubts Dani’s feelings even as she wants to talk about how sure she is that Dani loves her. She’s in an impossible situation where she can never know how Dani feels about her even though she so desperately wants to. So she’s stuck going back and forth between “she feels the same” and “what if she doesn’t love me?”

Like I said about the above quote, it makes me wonder if Dani actually loves Tara. If she does, wouldn't she have spoken those words of her own accord? It seems like she would have.
I agree that it seems like she would say them but I also think that we’re not equipped to think as a servant would think. There may be a reason in Dani’s very brilliant mind why she should not tell Tara that she loves her. Of course, maybe it’s that Dani doesn’t love her. (I know, I’m evil).

I’m fascinated with your comments regarding Tara’s denial and her reliance on acts rather than words. I think that most of the time we want to believe that acts, not words are the true measure of something. Perhaps the truth is that the interaction of both is necessary.

You have at least a couple of these 'I should have known' statements thrown into this chapter, and it makes my stomach all acid-y.
Absolutely. I felt like the last few chapters have been pretty light on these “remember that we are in a tragedy!” type statements and I wanted to do a bit of head-hitting-over in this one. Obviously that worked.

Hmm. I don’t think that Tara believes that what she and Dani are doing is wrong so much as she thinks of it as private. Kind of very “I am you know… what? Yours…” Like she sees it as something that is very her own rather than being something that she thinks is wrong.

The changing names that Dani bestows upon Tara are really starting to get to me. When she calls her by the name Tara I feel a glimmer of hope, like anything she says while calling her that seems more real almost. But then in the next sentence she can go back to calling her My Lady, and I feel then like anything said is an automatic response. Maybe that's an idication of how Dani herself is feeling. Maybe if she actually believes in what she's talking about, Tara's name makes an appearance. If she doesn't, she reverts back to her title.
I hear what you’re saying about the names Dani uses. For that matter, the names Tara uses change too if you think about it. There’s “my girl”, D’ni, and Dani. All indicate different things for her just as Dani uses the names to indicate different things. That said, I’m not sure that Tara is consciously aware of the differences in either set of appellations.

And now for the avoidance part of our program.
Lol! I agree that Tara is probably bothered at a sub-conscious level that Dani might want to share marks-rights with someone else but I don’t think that she’s probably prepared to really think about that. I would imagine that she wants to just fear that Dani would be forced. And she can’t bring herself to think of her own actions in that way nor to start to criticize the marking traditions so she’s doing what she can think of: removing them from the threat.

Thanks so much for your awesome and long feedback. I love it.

Cam – Well you’re whole Exhibit A-C makes it seem like 1. You have been reading and rereading and trying to figure this out and 2. You are under the impression that I actually planned this out. I mean, let’s say that you’re on to something. Ok. Then you think that I dropped the information about Desiderata and Doris in there to make you think something similar about Dani? What are the odds of that?

Understand that I’m happy that it’s making your brain hurt (not in a sadistic way, more a “buh wah ha ha” way).
And how does Doris gain her freedom? By asking for it at the proper ceremony. Which of course made me wonder about Tara's "not this day." Donnie or Faith or Buffy's wedding, perhaps? Would that qualify?
Ahhh good thinking. Let me clarify though. Doris asks for her freedom, as is her right, because the Lady to whom she was bound has died. The Lord/Lady of the estate are required to audience with anyone who requests it at the celebration (ala The Godfather Part I – seriously if you’ve never seen The Godfather movies, stop reading my responses to feedback and go rent them or netflix them or whatever and watch them) but they are not required to grant all requests. Doris is truly observing a formality but they are required to release her from her bond as were they for Desiderata.

Personally, I hope it's Tara who gives Dani her freedom...that whole "if you love something, set it free" deal. It's a given that Dani will come back (with a brand spankin' new "free" name), but considering everything you've said about the power imbalance, it would mean so much more if Tara finally realizes she needs to do something about it before they can ever be together like Desiderata and Phoebe.
Very excellent speculation. We’ll see if that’s what happens.

So basically, I have no idea what you've got up your sleeve,
Well that seems not quite true. It seems to me that you have some ideas at least. Whether they actually align with mine is a different question…Nonetheless, I’m glad for your hopefulness.

Thanks.

Diane – Thanks back for the advert.
Unfortunately, itch has turned to outright dread at what might be coming for the girls.
This sounds a bit like those old commercials for some over-the-counter remedy: “Has your itch turned to outright dread? You need dread-away! For nagging dread…”

I agree that Tara may be developing a “small whiff of awareness” but think it’s perhaps more whiffy than awarey at this point. I still think that her concern is largely for herself and her relationship with Dani rather than with Dani’s relationship with her. Does that make sense?
Quote:
“It was more as if she were alluding to our relationship in my chambers -- relationship in which I was hardly her Lady and she hardly my servant.”


So says you! Maybe not so aware.
Lol. I think that what you’re saying here (and I could be wrong) is that they can’t possibly actually set that relationship aside. That it is part and parcel of who they are and that Tara may want to think that within her chambers, they are just girlfriends but that just can’t be so. Correct me if I’m wrong about that.

I think that you’re totally right that Tara would be all “WTF” about the smack. In her mind she and Dani have a very wonderful loving relationship. She sees the possibility that someone else might want her girl or that Dani might want someone else to be really the only problem they have. I’m sure she’d be all: “I treat her wonderfully and she sleeps in my bed and I give her all the money from my markings and I gave her drugs so that her marking didn’t hurt and… and … and…” And yes, she’s say it very eloquently and you’d probably go, “gee. That does sound pretty good. Maybe I could aspire to a job as a mark-bound servant someday…”

Anyway, so here I sit, confused, worried, and a little riled up. I’ll just wait…it seems to be my only option. Thanks.
Yep. The good news is that so far (knock wood) my progress on this one continues to go well and I hope/plan to continue on approximately that schedule until it’s over. (and yes, then the sequel).

morningstar – Hello there. Agreed that Tara’s musing are quite unsettling. That means that I’m communicating what I want I think.

what got me the most is Tara is moving them to another estate. ok but it is not mentioned that Dani is even asked if she would like to move...
That’s a good point but I will say that I believe that only Tara would even consider asking her servant about this idea and that’s because she values Dani’s ability to think through and plan so well. Most nobility would have no inclination at all to ask a servant his/her opinion on something like this. And while I get the concern about Tara taking Dani away, I don’t personally have a major issue with it. I would think of it more like how if your partner/spouse has a job opportunity the whole family will relocate. I’m not saying that it’s always an easy situation but generally it’s a challenging step-up. Certainly it is a big change and takes them away from the family but it’s also a little of what they were raised to do. They will be “ruling” another Estate away from family and on their own and have a challenge. I would see it as coming in and taking over as new head of corporation that is losing money or as head coach of a bad football team or something. It’s a laudable challenge and she’s not completely out of her gourd to think of it. It just so happens that her very good idea is not entirely noble (no pun intended) as far as her intentions.

Sorry to mislead about the Faith conversation: I didn’t intend to lead that Faith was confronting about Dani but I can totally see how that might seem that way. We’ll see when/if Faith confronts Tara re: Dani.
Edit: Now that i am awake and remmebered the Faith and Riley part Rolling on the floor laughing i like the Faith is stealing Buffy's man again senario derr and sending him love notes via Dani's writing skills!
Aw. Sorry to say go back and reread. Faith’s hitting on Riley’s lower-ranked cousin—Stefan. Just to clarify: Riley = four-marked stuffed shirt idiot. Stefan = two-marked mench.

Thanks.

db – Hey there. Yep, lovers. I liked the line and have been planning to use it for a very long time. And another vote for despair. Watch out for the ROUSes. Tee hee.

Tara spends so much time pondering marks rights being taken with Dani and Dani's inability to refuse and yet she doesn't realize that this applies to her relationship as well?!
She sure doesn’t seem to be putting that 1 and 1 together does she? I wonder what would happen if/when she does.

I believe that there is a valid reason that Dani doesn’t want to say the words “I love you” to Tara and hope that reader will find it so when we actually arrive there. But yeah. You’d think it would set off more of a bright alarm light for Tara than it apparently does. (But points to you for using the words oy and meh.

I get that Tara is in love and that love makes you blind... but she is also consumed with jealousy and sadness at this divide. It is really begining to grate that Tara still does not fully see the lack of free will... still I am beginning to see a flicker of understanding. Tara knows that her emotions around Dani are out of control and that her lack of trust is of the ungood. She's not there yet -- but I am thinking this is the beginning of the beginning
Beginning of the beginning. I love it. Can I start using that? I would agree that she’s nearing a turning point in her understanding.

I’m glad that you like Faith’s role. Sometimes I think that perhaps I paint her with too kind a brush but then if you think about it, she and Spike are the only two people on the show (besides Oz I guess but he used his enhanced smelling skills) who used some level of perception to note the W/T relationship. And it took her about 3.5 seconds to totally get their relationship and to come up with a strategy to make Tara as crazy as possible (see evil and mean). So I don’t think that it’s totally unreasonable to think that Faith gets them in this story. We’ll see what she does with that information…

On one hand I can understand your wish for Tara to have a confidant but I think it would really change the narrative flow of the story. “And then I went and talked to XYZ … and then she said, ‘are you a total moron?’” etc. You know? But you’re right that there is no one that she can confide in. If the positions were reversed and Faith was the Lady and Tara 3-marked younger sister, she could absolutely talk to Faith but being the Lady and highly ranked at that, there is really no one. I believe that it’s reasonable to think that Tadre would be a strong confidant but Tara isn’t willing to take that chance.

Seems that you aren’t alone in wishing that Tara was giving Dani more of a choice. We’ll see what comes of that.
I want to believe that there is a preferance there; that Dani *does* chose Tara... but she doesn't, does she? She can't, really. It breaks my heart.
I’ll take that as a compliment. Thank you.

Thanks so much.

Dianneswillowtree – I can totally understand your bracing yourself. I think that’s a good plan.

Thanks.

ringwaldoeuvre – Hello again.
The move to have Tara and Dani move to another estate and away from society only postpones the inevitable problem that there will be something that comes between them.
Oh yes. She’s postponing rather than actually fixing anything and I would think that much is clear to even Tara. And yes, Tara hasn’t grown in a real way with understanding what it would take to have a free and open relationship with Dani. She has only grown enough to come up with a plan to take away her lover so they won’t be so threatened.
Additionally, her entire concern is centered around the effect of such an event on her - not Dani. If a noble took his rights with Dani, she seems more concerned with what that means to her, not Dani. Yet a noble could not impose himself on her, and make her do something that she does not want to do. The same cannot be said for Dani.
And that really is hard isn’t it? I mean Tara actually can’t comprehend how terrible that might be for Dani. I have to wonder if part of the reason that she tortures herself with the thought that Dani might actually want to be with someone else is to keep from torturing herself with the realization of what it would mean to her girl if she didn’t want it. And then she’d have to begin to think about what it would mean for all/any servants. Not something she’s apparently ready to begin to ponder.

Re: pov and trust. Yes. You are right that it’s intentional and I hope that it’s working in terms of a valid and effective narration method. I will say that I can’t imagine writing this story in any other narrative style. Have you read Affinity? I really love that book and [spoiler] one of the aspects to it that I really love is how complicated and effective the narrative style is. Often when I read a book I start to think “if I were to write this screenplay how would I do it?” And for that book, I can’t see how that book could ever work as a movie because of the combination of narration in it. I feel like the interspersed parts would totally ruin the surprise ending. You know?
[/spoiler]

You are totally right about the inclinations of the reader in this story. In fact, the very rules of this board dictate certain aspects to this story. We know for a fact that 1. Dani and Tara will end up together and 2. Dani will not be made to share marks-rights with anyone else. Those two facts, I think, actually reduce the amount of tension present.
Let's face it, there was weird power balance stuff going on with W/T on the show, despite the fact that we all wanted them to be together.
Absolutely. There are times when people depict Tara as being very enlightened and peaceful and I think that’s true but I also think that it’s true that her peacefulness is actually an extension of her low self-esteem. Like it takes until season six for her to actually be willing to stand up to Willow and threaten to leave her for herself.

I agree with you that Tara is moving toward a state of self-awareness even if right now it’s kind of just making her pissy at Faith.
It's something that concerned me before, so much so that I am almost inclined to disapprove of the way they got back together on the show.
Almost? You almost disapprove? I wholeheartedly disapprove. I mean don’t get me wrong. I’m a big W/T shipper (obviously) and a huge fan of the show but the way that they got back together really bugs me. It’s like Tara had the gumption and self-esteem to leave Willow but then some time passed and she was like, “gee. See girl. Like girl. Want girl now.” Ok, obviously that’s not totally true but it definitely bugs me.

Thanks so much for your wonderful feedback. I really appreciate it.

ana.log.ue – Hey there. No, I think your role as the only naysayer is over here. Tee hee.
I'll just say that this is perphaps the second most challenging and thought-provoking piece of fiction I've ever read (the first being Ishmael by Daniel Quinn - and yes, I pimp that book everywhere I go), and certainly the most challenging piece of fanfiction. I had some very specific ideas about the feudal social structure, and you made me completely rethink them.
Wow. Thank you so much. I can’t even say what that means to me.

I'd like to thank you for that. and the feedback you get is always so thoughtful too, it's really amazing.
I can’t even clearly express how much I love that aspect of this writing experience. The opportunity to have this conversation with others about my writing and my story is extremely fulfilling. I have so much to thank all the readers for…

I totally agree that some fanfiction is very silly but I guess I love that too. To me, I need a good story and good writing and it can be any universe. You know? But I totally get what you’re saying. Thank you so much.

Watty – Ah. So that feedback I got while I was at work was from you. Quite exciting. I won’t disagree with your term of abusive although I personally think of it as sad and twisted. I’m very interested that one of the things that has struck everyone is that Tara didn’t consult Dani regarding their move to the other Estate. I’ll say that I don’t know that she would be expected to do that. I compared it above to moving for a job opportunity and while you would discuss that with your spouse, I’m not sure that Dani currently warrants that level of equality. I’m not saying that she shouldn’t warrant it but I don’t think that Tara sees things that way at all.
May be I'm over-reacting, but this move of Tara's is a bad, bad, bad, bad, bad idea. And by the tone of the tale, Storyteller!Tara has regrets too.
StoryTeller Tara has regrets but I’m not sure that they’re over what everyone expects.

And yeah, Cam kind of shocked me with the entire listing things out thing too. Maybe you could make a spreadsheet to show her some real analysis? All of your whys are valid and relevant questions. And of course all will be revealed in good time.

You know what, I think that the current Tara, the one telling us this story, has finally learned that she has to work for love.
I agree. I think that the current Tara has learned more than the Tara back in time could ever have dreamed.
Yes Tara, take Dani to someplace that no one can touch her, isolate her, hide her. How is that different from putting her in a prison where only you have the key?
Again, I’m interested in all readers’ intensity of feeling toward this plan. I will say that I don’t think of it particularly negatively. And I can tell you that Dani doesn’t object to it (not that you’ll ever know that except from my mouth/fingers). But it’s a valid concern for sure.

Don’t worry about the harshness. Tara is … well kind of stupid a lot of the time and she warrants a good slap more than that. But as she says “not this day…”
Dani has indulged Tara -- yes she's mark-bound and all, but does it preclude her from telling Tara, may be just one time, of how she really feels?
There’s a question I don’t think anyone has asked. No. Dani is absolutely not precluded from telling Tara how she feels but she does have her reasons for not being more open and reciprocal with Her Lady.
This is probably the most thought-provoking work I've read. I haven't yet dreamed about it (like I did SAI) but I'm sure I will one day, it is that affecting.
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I’m so glad that it’s thought provoking. It keeps me up nights so maybe you’ll follow soon.

Thanks to you.
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Re: Waiting for Dani

Postby JujuDeRoussie » Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:16 am

Hello!

Sorry I didn't reply before, it's just I have the feeling of déjà-vu because I just want to say "great update"... And in this update everything seems better and Tara seems have found something to just be with Dani... but we all know it's not that simple and the bad thing will come up soon...
Thank you for your update.
Waiting the next like a good Juju ;-)

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Re: Waiting for Dani

Postby JustSkipIt » Wed Mar 07, 2007 5:11 am

watty wrote:Cam has me beat in listing her argument (when did she get so organized and listing things out in bullet points?)
Well did this. I was rereading SAI last night and came across this post from Cam very early on. And in it she makes three (numbered) and very perceptive (and correct) guesses. Hmmm...
Last edited by JustSkipIt on Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Waiting for Dani

Postby PancakesinBellies » Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:31 am

Damn Deb, this Tara isn't the brightest light on the tree, is she? Her obsessive jealousy can't be good, and it leaves me with unpleasant belly rumblings. Also, I'm glad you can unleash your inner angst moppet with this, but try not to drive us all to chocolate, okay? ;-)
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Re: Waiting for Dani

Postby grimlock72 » Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:18 pm

Prior to this update I could feel sort of sorry for Tara, 'cos she just wasn't getting it (either on purpose or not is another matter;-). She's developing a nasty streak of jealousy, which is dangerous with her being already bound to her object of adoration/love/possesiveness. It really makes no sense to worry or be jealous about a servant activly bound to you, now does it???

Despite all my objections about why Tara is moving to MacClay East, which wont work anyway, I can see an advantage. Dani meeting Giles should be usefull, both for wisdom/knowledge and for an outside-estate reflection on Dani herself. Dani might like all the work awaiting her East, but Tara's motivation to move there is silly. She can't keep Dani away from all the 'threats' she (Tara) perceives to Dani's love. Either she loves and trusts Dani (ignoring the bond and it's problems) or she doesn't.

Tara didn't think about what Dani would like in East did she? She just wanted to put Dani in 'societal isolation'. The fact that Tara herself will then also be isolated is a side-effect, but the prime target is Dani. To shield her from possible suitors and lords (lady;-)) knows what else.

A lot of Tara's thinking in this chapter is egoistical/selfish; "But I never wanted to share her and I wanted that to be acceptable in our world. ". That would be acceptable if you were married Tara, something which you keep confusing with having a bound-servant (for some marriage might feel that way, but that's beside the point;-)

Possesiveness is winning over love it seems. I can't entirely figure out if Tara at that time realised as much, or that it's with hindsight that she does now (the entire story is in hindsight which makes it difficult to differentiate between past 'fact' and facts interpreted with current knowledge). Wonder if that made sense ;-)

With regard to Tara still not realising or dealing with the fact that Dani can't say 'no' to her; she might honestly belief that she won't do/ask anything to which Dani would want to say no.

Tara and Dani removed from the main estate's influence somewhat, could be interesting. I don't see HOW Tara intends to fix the East Maclay estate's problems though. Obviously that has not been on her mind much since all she wants is to get Dani away from well... mostly anybody else really :lol. Still if she is to stay there for years she'll eventually have to produce some results.

This line also made me frown "Asked if she loved me but she would have said yes or given some other sideways answer." If 'yes' ain't an acceptable answer to 'do you love me', what is? What would be sufficient for Tara to accept as a definitive answer? Why would she not accept such a positive answer, what does she doubt??
"You hurt Tara," Willow said too calmly. "The last one who tried that was a god. I made her regret it."
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Re: Waiting for Dani

Postby Emms » Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:59 am

Hi Debra. Well I finished this last night at 2:30 in the morning (but my brain was too mushy to leave any feedback by that point) and went to bed.... I then spent I don't know how long lying there awake thinking about this story and everything that has happened thus far. I think I may have even dreamt about it! :lol

Anyway... I remember starting this a while ago, right after you started writing and posting it, but I remember that it was during a time period when I wasn't really reading as much fanfic as I usually did... and I've found that this fic takes a certain amount of commitment to get through (in a gooooood way lol ) in the way that the detail is so rich and the story line is soooo multilayered that one can't just read it and them move on... this story has to be sipped and swashed around the mouth a little, like a fine wine, before swallowed.

I just have to say that there are aspects of this story that I like, aspects that LOVE, aspects I don't like and aspects that I, frankly, just don't get ( :lol ).

I absolutely love the amount of detail you put into creating this story--the tone is very "old world" and you never falter or fade where that is concerned. I love the pacing. I love the rich history of their world. And I love the tapestry of relationships that exist in the castle. But what I love most about this story is that it is just so physical (and I don't just mean the sex.) Dani and Tara always seem to be touching or kissing or holding each other and that really makes the story feel, if that makes any sense at all. (I was much more eloquent in my head this morning before I sat down to write this. LOL. Sorry.

I like how the physical’ ness of the story is in contrast to the way Tara is relaying the story. She seems almost a bit detached in her narrative, but then she's so fierce (through her actions) when it comes to her need of Dani.

One part that really stood out for me was in the first few chapters when they were still small children, I think it was just before they got their ponies; (Hope and Dream... :luv ) Tara's father came in and he scooped Dani up and hid her behind his back, and he and Tara had a bit of a scene about getting her back... that part just resounded for me because I felt as if it really summed the entire story up in that one little action. They spoke of Dani as a person, but at the same she was a possession. Tara loved her (even then), but how much could she really love her...as much as she could love her pony?

And this is further driven into us by the lack of Dani's POV.. at certain parts of the story I was so wanting to know what Dani thought and what she felt. All we know is how Tara perceives things, and even she's admitted that she was more often than not too self-centered to really care. Like she said, she didn't think much about Dani existing without her. Which brings us back around to that whole love/possession theme.

There is one thing though that I have to admit. I still don't get how the bonding marks were put on Tara and Dani. For a while I thought it was like a tattoo, but then I'd decided that it was purely a magical experience to get them put on. And then their actual marks were put on, and afterward I still didn't really know. LOL. But I guess it's a little of both maybe; physical and magical. In any event, it was intense. And poor Dani... I felt so bad for her, but she was so brave at the same time to suffer through all that for Tara.

And there is way more that I could mention and go into here about what makes me love this story... but I'll end here. If I think of anything really important (which knowing my brain, I probably will) then I'll come back and edit this post.

Wow, Debra... this story is just... Let’s just say that I truly understand, now, why the feedback for this story is often longer than the actual update… You are one talented writer.

xoxo
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Re: Waiting for Dani

Postby JustSkipIt » Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:13 pm

JujuDeRoussie – Hello. Don’t worry about not replying quickly. Yes, you are right that at times it seems that we can say “yay” but that we really know that things are going to get worse very soon. Thanks.

Me – Wow. You noticed that? I noticed it too…

PancakesinBellies
Damn Deb, this Tara isn't the brightest light on the tree, is she?
Lol. I think that in some ways she is quite bright and in others she is intensely dense. She’s just so blinded by her station and her obsessive love/jealousy that she doesn’t think well where Dani is concerned at all.

… but try not to drive us all to chocolate, okay?
Well, why not? I love chocolate. Probably too much so why shouldn’t we all have some. More? Have plenty.

Thanks.

Grimmy – I hear you and it seems that you aren’t the only one losing patience with Tara. I love what you say about it making no sense to be so jealous but I will say that having Dani be bound to her doesn’t mean that no one else might get to share intimacy with Dani. So I feel like Tara’s jealousy, while dangerous, is somewhat justified. I mean it’s quite realistic that someone else would want Dani.

I think that you are right that moving to Maclay East gives Dani and Giles the opportunity to become acquainted and learn from each other. And I do think that it provides a very good opportunity for both Tara and Dani in terms of their management experience. Kind of like getting hired as the coach of a last-place team. And yes, it would be nice if Tara felt that she could love and trust Dani but I also think that she’s conscious of the fact that her lover could sleep with other people and it wouldn’t matter what Tara or Dani thought of it. And I don’t think she’s ready to confront what is wrong with that system so she localizes it to a suspicion that she can’t trust Dani rather than wondering what her entire society is based upon.
The fact that Tara herself will then also be isolated is a side-effect, but the prime target is Dani.
Tara didn’t dwell on it but I actually she sees that as a benefit of the move. She’s no more interested in meeting eligible suitors than she is seeing Dani paired up with some five-mark lord. If she buys herself and Dani both some time, all the better.

I’ll agree that Tara’s thinking her is egotistical/selfish. But I also think that we are privy to her emotions at the telling of the tale rather than her emotions at the time that the story takes place and I do think that those two states of realization are very different.
With regard to Tara still not realising or dealing with the fact that Dani can't say 'no' to her; she might honestly belief that she won't do/ask anything to which Dani would want to say no.
That’s definitely a possibility. I think that it’s also possible/likely that the thought that she could force (ok, be forcing) Dani to have sex has simply never occurred to Tara.

I think that how Tara will fix the problems at Maclay East will depend very much on what type of problems they encounter when they arrive. Have the crops been rotated poorly? Has land lain fallow? Do they need a magic user to regulate irrigation? Do they have enough laborers? Too many? She and Dani have been very well trained to manage a productive estate and to manage people. We’ll see how they do.

I think that your question of what Tara wants to hear when Dani says “yes” is a good one. But I also think that there are a lot of people for whom “yes” doesn’t really count. They want to hear “I love you” just kind of organically rather than when asked about it. You know?

Emms – Well hello. I saw your initial short feedback and then wondered if I had lost you. I don’t think this story is for everyone (or obviously, there would be more readers and feedback) so I just figured oh well. So very nice to see such a long note from you.

If you dreamt about it, you’re not the only one. I dream about it quite frequently and Watty swears she will start soon. I totally agree that this fic takes some level of thought and commitment so I really appreciate the readers and feedbackers even more.

I just have to say that there are aspects of this story that I like, aspects that LOVE, aspects I don't like and aspects that I, frankly, just don't get ( Laughing Out Loud ).
Well, I’m not sure that myself or any other writer can ask for much more that that. You know?

Thanks for your wonderful comments regarding the detail and the tone of the story. It’s a big change for me but I really enjoy it and it’s easier than I had expected. I get what you’re saying about the physicality of the story. Kind of tactile? Thank you. You make a very good point about Tara’s current condition. I picture her all wrapped around herself in a wooden chair by the window in the dark al a New Moon rising. And I think that you are right that’s she’s a little detached. She kind of has to be to make it through the tale.
... that part just resounded for me because I felt as if it really summed the entire story up in that one little action. They spoke of Dani as a person, but at the same she was a possession. Tara loved her (even then), but how much could she really love her...as much as she could love her pony?
Quite. I think that was perhaps just the first indication that Tara would never understand the difference in love and possession and the difficulty in having both. And you make another very good point. The lack of Dani’s pov is largely to underscore the fact that Dani has no self, no being. She has no pov that can be separate from Tara’s in Tara’s mind or in this society and so the narration of the story is completed without her.

I still don't get how the bonding marks were put on Tara and Dani. For a while I thought it was like a tattoo, but then I'd decided that it was purely a magical experience to get them put on.
I would say that in my head it’s kind of like a combination of a tattoo, a brand (much more painful I’ve heard), and then the magic spell which is bound into the physical mark. And I think that the pain and intensity is caused by all three. I guess the magic part would be a little like giving up part of your soul or tying it to someone else for a while.

Thank you and thank you again for your fantastic comments. I appreciate them and look forward to more.
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Re: Waiting for Dani

Postby The Rose24 » Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:57 pm

I sense bad things coming, but I know you will make things okay between them.

Now on to happier things. They can't seem to keep their hands off of one another. Atleast things are good in that aspect.
Tara: Willow, I got so lost.
Willow: I found you. I will always find you.
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Re: Waiting for Dani

Postby db » Sat Mar 10, 2007 9:06 pm

Beginning of the beginning. I love it. Can I start using that?


Sure! I´d be honored.
I am, you know.
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loophole?

Postby morningstar » Sat Mar 10, 2007 9:34 pm

So if Dani is supposed to serve and obey Tara the most cant there be a loophole with the whole other five mark noble rights?

Couldn’t Tara expressly tell Dani that she is forbidden to sleep with anyone no matter what rank,

Would Dani then have to obey Tara? Although other noble men might not get it so then it would be even worse for Dani if they tried to claim the rights.

not that it would be bad in the first place but even if both choices are evil the one where Dani 'consents' and 'enjoys' when another noble claims mark rights compared to when she is not supposed to be doing it cuz Tara ordered her not to and having a noble do it anyhow would be much worse...
Even if they are both bad either way ( :yikes I hope no one took that wrong... if anyone understood it in the first place.)

So basically my question is can Tara command Dani not to share mark rights and then would another noble not be able to take mark rights with Dani?
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Re: Waiting for Dani

Postby Cynthia Taz » Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:13 am

Ah... late review...

I've to admin I forget that Dani cannot leave Tara... bad me... :shy (someone's probably has asked already...) but will it be possible for Tara to give 'free will' to Dani? 'Cos I don't think Tara would have try to stop Dani from leaving if she believed it's what Dani wants...

We were lovers then. Dani and I.


It makes me worry that Dani and Tara's not lovers now... but hopfully in a good way? Like they get married or something? (well, a girl can hope...) While there's not many hints on how Dani actually feels about Tara, but it seems Dani has at least some kinds of feelings to her... no matter how strong the bond is and the mark will affect Dani (making Dani enjoy whatever Tara did), I would think Dani's action was way beyond a marked servant would feel or act...

Lying awake in bed every once in a while I would convince myself that the true answer to that question could be found in actions rather than words.


may be i'm only making the same mistake (if it's a mistake) as Tara... :paranoid

I wanted to dance on the tables each time someone mentioned how many balls and parties we would miss out on. I found myself smiling and humming to myself as I roamed the castle for the next week thinking of the freedom I would feel once myself and, more importantly, my girl were away from potential mates.


New image: Tara skipping down the corridor, singing "la-lala-la-la, Dani-is-mine..." for whole week. :rofl

Can't wait for more!
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