Buffy's staked - now its history is being written

[helpful information perha]

The show has been staked

The post mortem has begun

What will be its legacy?

Will whedon get the academic kudos he craves?

Will/how will Willow and Tara be remembered?



This thread is for news bits etc on the buffy legacy – such that it is.





(For those that want Tara (Willow and Tara) remembered and Whedon not forgotten for his use of the cliche - I'd suggest a good first step is to listen/call into NPR's show "All things considered" this afternoon)



www.npr.org



Tuesday, May 13, 2003

Scholars often consider life's biggest questions -- morality and mortality, for example. And so does Buffy the Vampire Slayer. The TV show has developed a cult following of sorts among the academic crowd. But only two episodes of the show remain before Buffy leaves the air for good. We'll discuss what this means for the future of what some have termed Buffy studies.





edited to add



from NPR website



'Buffy Studies'

End of TV Series Clouds Future of Odd Academic Discipline



"We are at the point where we're developing textual studies of Buffy and debates about what constitutes the actual text of Buffy."



"Buffy Studies" academic David Lavery, professor of English at Middle Tennessee State University



May 13, 2003 -- The genesis of the television series Buffy the Vampire Slayer began with a 1992 tongue-in-cheek film about a high school cheerleader who discovers she's the latest in a long line of young women destined to battle vampires.



The series picked up where the film left off, and became an instant cult classic. In the television version, Buffy lives in the picturesque town of Sunnydale, Calif. -- which just happens to sit on top of a portal into Hell. For the past seven years, Buffy has fought blood-sucking vampires, hellhounds and giant snakes, as well as the more typical adolescent demons of school and boyfriends.



From its name on down, Buffy sounds a little silly -- but Buffy's fans say the show stretches the boundaries of the medium, and challenges clichés.



Buffy enjoys a special following among academics, some of whom have staked a claim in what they call "Buffy Studies." NPR's Neda Ulaby reports there are serious academic studies on the characters and themes in the series -- titles like "Buffy the Vampire Disciplinarian: Institutional Excess and the New Economy of Power."



Now the series is down to its final two episodes (the final episode airs May 20), and the fate of "Buffy Studies" is up in the air. David Lavery, helping to organize the second Buffy Studies Conference in Nashville, Tenn., in 2004, says the end of the series will actually be just the beginning of the debate. "We are at the point where we're developing textual studies of Buffy and debates about what constitutes the actual text of Buffy," he tells Ulaby.



Lavery finds comfort in the words of philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche, whose theories are frequently invoked in Buffy Studies. "Nietzsche said the secret of life is to die at the right time -- and I think it's true of a television series, too."

Edited by: helpful information perhaps at: 5/13/03 12:57:35 pm

[ruby]

"Buffy studies" would be more enduring if the show hadn't ended with such a whimper. Ulitmately, it sacrificed its narrative legacy for money and egos. Such a waste.

"Why did I have to be so veiny?" -- Alyson Hannigan

[tommo]

Yes, but Nietzsche's words here are rendered meaningless when you consider that Buffy, as a television show, did indeed find the right time to "die". It was an episode called The Gift and it happened two years ago. The rest is all just the meanderings of an ego that refused to die.

"Dude, you just rescued a puppy!"

[WiccansIllusion]

"Challenges Cliche's?" Yeah fucking right. It writes them.

"love is touching souls" surely you touched mine 'cause part of you pours out of me in these lines from time to time-Joni Mitchell 'A case of You'

“Oh yeah,” Tara sighed in Willow’s ear. “I’m your bitch. I’m your girl. I’m your everything,” she panted. “Don’t you ever fucking forget it."- CN Winters

[Firefoot]

Quote:

---

"We are at the point where we're developing textual studies of Buffy and debates about what constitutes the actual text of Buffy,"

---

I can't believe anyone in their right mind would waste their time trying to intellectually analyze this drivel. And I'm in academia, where people make a living writing about all kinds of things, some of them ridiculous. To a scholar of pop culture studies, it might be interesting to look at Buffy's first three seasons in terms of how the writers used the supernatural as a metaphor for the struggles faced by adolescents, but I think that's about as far as you can take it. Once the gang had left the high school setting, that clever writing-on-multiple-levels was mostly abandoned, and the witty/ subtle/ poignant was replaced by the trite/ broad/ saccharine. Not uniformly, of course, there were a lot of terrific moments, but as season five ground into season six and then into season seven, those moments became fewer and further between.



At its height, Buffy was a smart, funny show that took familiar staples of the fantasy/ horror genres and spun them out into new and fresh forms. But after a certain point (and fans' MMV on when Buffy jumped that tank of Great Whites), the show ceased to be fresh, and instead began to perpetuate the very clichés and stereotypes that it had once so playfully skewered. Anyone who expends mental effort analyzing the show in its present condition is IMO wasting time and energy that could be spent a lot more fruitfully. I used to love Buffy in its heyday, and part of me always will, but now I freely admit it's not worth the gunpowder to blow it to Hell on.







Firefoot

-----

"The holy passion of friendship is of so sweet and steady and loyal and enduring a nature that it will last for a whole lifetime, if not asked to lend money."

--Mark Twain

[helpful information perha]

to my mind these "academics" of buffy studies are just fanboys/fangirls trying to catch a bit of hollywood attention



Pieces that I see as being key to shaping the buffy legacy are those like the salon piece on spike - these supposed academics well - I hope they can't get tenure via pushing this kind of crap





FYI -

the salon piece

salon.com/ent/feature/200...ex_np.html



Why Spike ruined "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"

Like Fonzie before him, this too-cool thug in a leather jacket has diverted a good show from its original mission: To celebrate the uncool outcasts of the world.

By Jaime J. Weinman



is posted by xita on the "A running list of media pieces on Buffy/the cliche thread" - page 122



the writer of the salon piece on spike is getting a lot of spike fan flack - feed back letters can be sent via



www.salon.com/about/letters/index.html



another piece that sets the foundation for Buffy's legacy - the Boston Hearld Piece posted by kajo on the

"A running list of media pieces on Buffy/the cliche thread" - page 121 - this writers piece a year previous (which tore into whedon and proclaimed sunnydale klan country) was clearly heard by UPN/ME who subsequently introduced several minority characters and a tolken lesbian gf



www2.bostonherald.com/ent...092003.htm



The Friday Rant



by Mark A. Perigard

Friday, May 9, 2003



Judging from the penultimate ``Buffy the Vampire Slayer'' airing Tuesday at 8 p.m. on WSBK (Ch. 38), fans of the cult series will be left with one crucial question: How did a series so good go so monstrously wrong?

Edited by: helpful information perhaps at: 5/14/03 2:38:32 pm

[tommo]

Having said that, NPR mentioned slayage, which is a collection of academic essays about BtVS. I read some of them today, and there are a couple that are well crafted, well thought out and full of interesting ideas.



I said a couple. There's an alarming plethora of essays about Spike, on the other hand, which really put me off the whole site to be honest.



But there's a decent essay about Willow's character and how she's changed. Although I can't help thinking back to the character study thread we had here on the board, and how good that was.

"Dude, you just rescued a puppy!"

[helpful information perha]

perhaps some here should try and work up a summary piece on that character study thread and submit it from the kitten?



If these are the folks who will write the history - we should have our voice in their journal

[darkmagicwillow]

Could someone give me a link to that character study thread? And to any Tara character study thread that might exist too.

--

"Omnia mutantur, nihil interit." -- "Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost."

[sam7777]

I wonder if Mutant Enemy has any conception of how many fans they alienated last season who are still writing letters about the cliche or defending the article about Spike ruining the show at Salon.com at the moment or just writing about what's wrong on the show. They have a small fan cult base and I'd say a goodly portion are now actively working against the show and/or don't want to watch any of their shows. I certainly fall into both categories



The effects have already been seen. Angel has already spent 2 seasons on the fence at the WB and prolly lauuchning into their 3rd season of teetering. Firefly was cancelled and Buffy had ratings low enough that even bottom of the heap UPN would not give it an 8th season.



The academics are a drop in the bucket compared to the fans. The fans are the ones who buy the merchandise and bring in the ratings.

_____________________

I see dead lesbian cliches

Edited by: sam7777  at: 5/14/03 5:55:42 pm

[darkmagicwillow]

I watched the Biography episode and didn't learn too much new: Joss thinks more pain is what makes Buffy great, Marti thinks killing characters is fun and every writer's dream, and no one has any idea of how the Buffyverse works, especially the whole season 5 plot with the Key.

--

"Omnia mutantur, nihil interit." -- "Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost."

[DaffyQDuck]

So true darkmagicwillow--I was happy to see Tara mentioned, when Faith & Riley weren't. And there were a couple cute shots of Amber signing stuff & having fun on the set. Great to see Aly, as always, & interviewed a good bit.

It wasn't our world anymore, they made it theirs and they had fun - Willow

[Gatito Grande]

I just saw A&E bit, and loved: 1) Aly on WT: "how could anyone hate that?" (How indeed). 2) that I now have Dawn's "Who's the Man?" (Buffy: "You're a very short, annoying Man") on tape, as FX always cuts that exchange (from FFL), 3) Aly in general: talking about flubbing her "Willow" audition, but being so dazzlingly cute, that you see how everyone involved was powerless to resist her! 4) that they included & 's exchange at the end of Hush: the very definition of chemistry .



GG Even if idiots like me didn't see it immediately: damn if all my schools shouldn't demand their "gifted" evaluation back! Out

[Epicurus]

Couldn't say I really liked the A&E Biography considering they skipped the entire death of Tara, evil Willow story line and basically chalked Willow and Tara's love up to college experimentation.



Although, I did think Aly was adorable when she was talking about her grandma.

[tommo]

dmw - haven't a clue where the character study threads went. They used to be on the spoiler board; the old one, but I don't know where they are now. I'm sure one of the mods can help with finding them though. They have access to powers I can't even invoke...heh heh...

"Dude, you just rescued a puppy!"

[Firefoot]

HIP mentioned:

Quote:

---

Why Spike ruined "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"

Like Fonzie before him, this too-cool thug in a leather jacket has diverted a good show from its original mission: To celebrate the uncool outcasts of the world.

By Jaime J. Weinman



is posted by xita on the "A running list of media pieces on Buffy/the cliche thread" - page 122

---

Anyone who hasn't read this article should really check it out. It's thoughtful and well-written and details very nicely why the ridiculous focus on Spike has hurt the show so badly.



Firefoot

-----

"The holy passion of friendship is of so sweet and steady and loyal and enduring a nature that it will last for a whole lifetime, if not asked to lend money."

--Mark Twain

[tommo]

They're on Witches and Vixens, heh.



Willow Character Study and Discussion



Tara Character Study and Discussion

"Dude, you just rescued a puppy!"

[Puff]

I thought it was good. Marti came off looking awful which was always fun to watch. The people who chose the clips loved Tara and Amber and she was shown whenever possible and we actually got little bits of Aly which is always good. I loved hearing what Aly had too say about the Willow and Tara relationship, she really get's it.



I found it interesting as well that the biography covered seasons 1-5 ok, only the musical and spuffy in 6 and then said that 7 was the last season. Not that there was much to cover in the last two seasons that was any good.

---

Cheese. It's milk that you chew.

[tommo]

I'm wondering if this is similar or even the same as the biog. that was on the Season 6 dvds.

"Dude, you just rescued a puppy!"

[helpful information perha]

can someone fill those of us who didn't see this as to what Aly said about willow/tara -- thanks!!!

[darkmagicwillow]

Thanks for the links, Ruth. And wow, it's been a year since they've been updated.



Puff, I also noticed that the biography tried to hurry past seasons 6 and 7 as if they knew that the show's quality had been shredded once UPN gave ME total control over it and didn't want to mention the former fact lest people connect it with the latter one, which they did mention.

--

"Omnia mutantur, nihil interit." -- "Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost."

[Puff]

All the Willow Tara comments...



Aly

It's just a beautiful relationship just the way it progressed and came about. Who could you know...not like that?



Joss

for 10 episodes we were having fun with it and then we came out and boldly stated that Willow loved Tara. And that's when the hatemail started.



Considerably better than Marti's comments about sexual experimentation in college and how some people don't even define their sexuality.

---

Cheese. It's milk that you chew.

Edited by: Puff  at: 5/15/03 11:17:38 am

[helpful information perha]

thanks!

[frumpycat]

Hey...is the A&E biography anywhere on the Internet? I can't find it on KaZaa...

[helpful information perha]

whedon states his "vision" of buffy's legacy



www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/...edon.reut/



I have to wonder what show he has been watching?

[sam7777]

If X-files and Xena are anything to go by, Buffy will not be discussed a year from now. I remember when academics were falling all over themselves to analyze X-Files and they even published a book of academic papers: Deny All Knowledge. I checked on line and there haven't been many X-files articles in the last 2 years:

www.xfroadrunners.com/articles/

most recent article June 2002

members.tripod.com/~Medel...icles.html

most fan sites don't list articles after 1998 ot 1999.



X-files was seen by alot more people than Buffy was and had it's own cadre of fanatical fans. The problem was that they chased alot of them away the last 2 seasons: (from Futon Critic)

2000-2001:

x-files - 12.73 million viewers, 7.60/11.21 ave national rating

buffy the vampire slayer - 4.39 million, 2.91/4.50 ave national

2001-2002:

x-files - 8.87 million (down 30%), 5.38/8.10 ave national

buffy the vampire slayer - 4.31 million, 2.76/4.38 ave national

2002-2003:

buffy the vampire slayer - 3.60 million (down 16%), 2.30/3.66 ave national



Both shows faded in the ratings and alienated fans in their last 2 season, X-files has faded away in media coverage and so will Buffy. Star Trek will always be remebered for having the first interracial kiss even thoug it was way back in the 1960's. Buffy could have been remembered for having the first long term lesbian relationship on prime time instead of being remembered for pushing the same old lesbian death and girl-on-girl sex lesbian cliches.

_____________________

I see dead lesbian cliches

[helpful information perha]

popmatters is taking its shot at shaping buffy's legacy





www.popmatters.com/



THE GOOD SLAYER

Buffy the Vampire Slayer ends its seven-year run this week. Here, PopMatters writers remember and reconsider the series' many meanings. To quote Buffy: "From now on, we won't just face our worst fears, we will seek them out... There is only one thing on this earth more powerful than evil, and that's us. Any questions?"



www.popmatters.com/tv/rev...hs.shtml:. Death Is What a Slayer Lives / Cynthia Fuchs

[For all its clever observations and insight into teen angst, the show has drawn particular praise and criticism for its handling of death. When Buffy's mother Joyce (Kristine Sutherland) died two years ago, reviewers applauded the sensitive treatment of such trauma ("The Body," 5-16). But the murder of Willow's lover Tara (Amber Benson), incited considerable controversy, as it appeared to confirm the costs of visible queerness in a homophobic world ("Seeing Red," 6-19).



And there are more costs. Dark Willow's brutal flaying of the murderer Warren (Adam Busch) only made her feel worse: killing the monster who killed Tara didn't have any sort of cathartic effect. In fact, the ordeal has haunted her as she's embarked on a relationship with JFK (Iyari Limon). In "The Killer In Me," Willow's guilt over Tara and Warren's deaths leads her to absorb Warren, to look like him and begin to think and act like him. When JFK pulls her back into herself with a kiss (the same trigger that first turned her into Warren), Willow weeps, "I let her be dead. She's really dead. And I killed her" (7-13). ]







www.popmatters.com/tv/rev...ethy.shtml

There's only me. I am the law.

:. Scooby Love / Michael Abernethy



[Some of the Scoobs have died (Kendra [Bianca Lawson] and perhaps most famously, Tara [Amber Benson]), some have died temporarily (Angel [David Boreanaz]), some have left town to wrestle with personal demons (Angel, Oz [Seth Green], Riley [Marc Blucas]), and some have experienced complete personality changes (Anya [Emma Caulfield], Willow, Spike [James Marsters]). Others have popped up out of nowhere (Dawn), and almost all have been seriously wounded at one point or another (the latest devastating injury is Xander's loss of his left eye)]





www.popmatters.com/tv/rev...mlow.shtml

:. Boys and Girls and Buffy / Todd R. Ramlow



[The most progressive social and political impact of Buffy emerged in the long coming out process of Willow (Allyson Hannigan). After her painful separation from high school sweetheart and werewolf Oz (Seth Green), she realized her queer desires when she met fellow witch Tara (Amber Benson). What began as a tentative admission of bisexuality wound up, some two seasons later, as an out and proud declaration of her gayness. Willow's struggle to make sense of her own desires, her indecision about whom to tell, what to tell, and when, reflected the coming out stories of many queer people, and has had the potential to influence the way homosexuality is perceived by Buffy's audience.



I would feel remiss at this point if I didn't at least mention the controversy over the ending of season six with the callous murder of Tara, which to many viewers implicitly repeated homophobic stereotypes of queer sexuality as pathology and excess. This scandal and the public uproar that ensued were testament to the many ways Buffy so often intersects with the "real" world, despite its fantasy stylings. With Tara's death, and no matter the makers' intentions, the show participated in the perpetuation of homophobia, as happens so often in our currently "tolerant" world (Rick Santorum comes to mind).



Here was one of Buffy's most important lessons: the safety and acceptance of sexual minorities are not, and perhaps never can be, finalized in a society so long based in sexism and homophobia. But perhaps the lack of young women's safety is precisely the point. Sex, sexuality, and desire are messy and sometimes painful, as well as pleasurable and self-affirming. It's an urgent message for young women in a contemporary environment where they are given injunctions to a "normal" sexual restraint, and pilloried in public paranoia over the increasingly young age at which girls are having sex. ]









www.popmatters.com/tv/rev...oone.shtml

:. Surprises / Tracy McLoone

[Amid all this mucking about with familial norms, Buffy notably diverged from hetero and traditionally romantic representations of sexuality. In particular, its challenges to conventional sexual morality have pleased Buffy fans. The Willow and Tara (Amber Benson) love story offered a lesbian relationship unique in television history. Queer kids loved the relationship, and found inspiration in the young witches' example of a fully committed, healthy same-sex relationship. Seldom have two women on tv seemed so suited to one another. They kissed and hugged, weathered Willow's magic addiction, cohabitated, and even got a pet kitten together. Sadly cut short by Tara's death in "Seeing Red" (6-19), their relationship has continued to affect Willow's life into the show's final season, as she has begun a new romance with the Potential Slayer, JFK (Iyari Limon) ("The Killer In Me," 7-13).



Where Willow and Tara developed a deeply intimate and romantic love, Buffy has also explored other sorts of sexual desire, specifically lust. While Buffy's relationship with the vampire Angel (David Boreanaz) has surely turned on physicality and longing, her relationship last season with Spike (James Marsters) further complicated these terms: they had violent sex, even as Buffy worried that she didn't even "like" Spike. This was a different kind of girl action. The fact that they are now, in the final season, moving towards real intimacy suggests that love doesn't always proceed from romance, but can come out of desire. While Willow and Tara had a friendship that developed into something more physical, Buffy and Spike had a tangled sexual relationship that now may be growing into a more intense emotional connection. ]





www.popmatters.com/tv/rev...nger.shtml

:. Lord of the Nerds / Jesse Hassenger





www.popmatters.com/tv/rev...sten.shtml

:. We Could Be Heroes / Erich Kuersten

The finale of Buffy marks not only the end of a great series, but also the end of one of the most popular myths of our postmodern times.





www.popmatters.com/tv/rev...orta.shtml

:. Family Relations / Marco Lanzagorta

Buffy's narration of the troubled family proposes complex and apparently contradictory views on gender and monstrosity.

[BBOvenGuy]

Quote:

---

Boys and Girls and Buffy / Todd R. Ramlow



I would feel remiss at this point if I didn't at least mention the controversy over the ending of season six with the callous murder of Tara, which to many viewers implicitly repeated homophobic stereotypes of queer sexuality as pathology and excess. This scandal and the public uproar that ensued were testament to the many ways Buffy so often intersects with the "real" world, despite its fantasy stylings. With Tara's death, and no matter the makers' intentions, the show participated in the perpetuation of homophobia, as happens so often in our currently "tolerant" world

---

Todd Ramlow is the guy who wrote those two articles on the death of Tara last summer. He's been on our side from the beginning.

"The first task of anyone, lest you get canceled, is to entertain people, because they ain't there for message." - Dick Wolf

[helpful information perha]

yes I remember those pieces



hmmm here's an idea - there are loads of "awards" shows

because they serve a purpose - to highlight an raise awareness



I think we just have to forget GLAAD and the sci fi awards people who would still lick whedon's boots even as he kicked them - and pick our own catagories and award winners

could be two divisions even - "the best" and "the razzies"



If we were going for best media coverage of Tara's death

I'd say he would be one of the contenders





_____



so do we want to do awards?

Edited by: helpful information perhaps at: 5/27/03 3:17:52 am

[tyche]

The BBC has a fairly generic article on the end of Buffy at their news site. However, the really cool bit is that there's a form at the end of the article where you can send them your opinions on whether it was the right time for the show to end. If other articles are a guide, they will add extracts from opinions at the end of the article as they are received. (Be polite, and don't use any profanity, as this will increase your chances of being quoted.) So go kittens!

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3043697.stm